Opinion(s) on something I've been thinking?

A liar is a liar. It doesn’t matter to whom, and they are capable of lying to you if it serves their purposes.

My mother was a functioning sociopath; horrible woman. It was a chore talking to her in her later years. She was a vicious racist, a liar, constantly stole from me when I was still living at home. Lied to each of her kids so that they were kept apart. Sometimes you just get lousy mothers. It the luck of the draw I guess.

Sometimes we lie to our mothers because they have demonstrated a pathological inability to cope adequately with the truth. We do it either to protect them or ourselves from unproductive conflict. I prefer to tell Mom the truth if she really wants it. If she makes it clear there are many things they just don’t really want to know, I will respect her preferences.

My mom is bipolar, so I have to access with what she is able or willing to cope.

Yes, yes

You have described a classic manipulator who will even throw their own mother under the bus to get what they want. Beware.

Everybody lies. It’s a necessary component of social interaction.

@Seek_Kolinahr I don’t. Seriously.

* Squints eyes *
This is one of those paradox moments, right?

@Seek_Kolinahr No, really. Years ago when I was a teenager I was caught in a lie with my dad. I promised him I’d never lie again, and I never have. I always tell the truth. Sometimes I withhold the truth and stay silent, but I never lie.

My answer to the two questions: it depends on the specific situation.
There’s a saying which can be summarize as: the lie is unacceptable, but the harsh truth is none the better.

Depends on the lie. If the lie results in someone being hurt physically, financially, or other, then yes, it’s possible. If the lie is what I call a white lie or a fib (Example: The sky is green), then maybe not. Does this person lie about absolutely everything? Could be. Respect is variable and relative.

@Rarebear How do you answer the classic philosophical dilemma of the Nazis asking if you have Jews hiding in your attic (assuming you weren’t Jewish, and did in fact have a family hiding)? It seems there are times when we are morally obligated to lie, right?

I would never be frank or insult a big bottom girl nor would I insult you even if I disagreed with your ideals, so I guess I’d be considered a liar.

I doubt mom was looking for Jewish families to execute. I bet Jane wasn’t lieing about mom’s fat butt.
How old is Jane? Have you seen Jane lie only once, or regular? Was Jane covering for somebody?
Without more details, lots of guessing can just go nuts.

It depends on the person and the circumstances. Perhaps it could be a lie to keep someone from feeling self conscious or uncomfortable, white lies, or lying by omission, or lying by commission, etc. But everyone does lie, and it depends on where that person draws the line on the limits of their dishonesty. People like to see themselves as honorable and trustworthy, yet they also like to be dishonest and benefit from it. So the middle ground is to rationalize. If someone can justify their crime, then it is okay for them to lie. It just depends on where a specific person draws their line and how far they can justify their actions.

Yes, lying is a sign of disrespect. Yes, a person that lies to one person is capable of lying to another person.

More importantly, everyone lies and everyone is capable of lying to anyone. This girl isn’t any worse of a person for telling her mom a lie than she would be for lying to anyone else.

Lying is absolutely disrespectful. I was taught that only small white lies are ever acceptable and to be used rarely & only to spare someone unnecessary harm. (Like telling auntie Gail that her sweater is cute when it’s hideous.)

I’d say don’t judge Jane, it’s between her and her mom, but you could ask her what her motivations were in that situation for sure. Trust is earned over time, so I don’t think a little lie to her mom makes her untrustworthy.

@gorillapaws Well, fortunately I’ve never been faced with that sort of decision.

@Rarebear Right, it’s a thought experiment. The point being that (in some circumstances) lying can be the right thing to do.

@gorillapaws Of course. And if I were in a no-win extreme situation like that I’d of course lie. I’m not stupid or heartless. My own personal honor code requires me to tell the truth. But if in my judgement lying is the more honorable thing to do, then I would lie. Does that make sense?

@Rarebear Absolutely.

We so yearn for absolute rules of fairness and morality, but they are not to be found. As @gorillapaws showed, there are times when it is appropriate to lie. Each situation is different. Without knowing the specifics of Jane’s situation with her mother, it is not possible to form an opinion.