Social Question

poisonedantidote's avatar

Regarding burn a koran day, I have a proposition, what do you think of it?

Asked by poisonedantidote (21549 points ) September 9th, 2010

I propose, that if this pastor in Florida does go ahead and burn copies of the Koran, that we all go out and pay a book publishing company to print two copies for every copy he burns, so to ensure that his efforts are wasted.

However, if the police do stop him from burning them some how, that we all go out and burn two copies for every copy he would have burned, so to protect peoples freedom of expression.

What do you think of this idea? And do you think there is still enough time to pull it off?

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55 Answers

Bluefreedom's avatar

You were on the right track with “printing two copies for every copy he burned” but when I got to the part about “burn two copies for every copy he would have burned”, I became very disenchanted with this question altogether.

Seaofclouds's avatar

I would like for him to be arrested and charge for reckless disregard and being a threat to national security, but I doubt it will happen. I hope he doesn’t go through with it.

That being said, I am all for printing two copies for every copy he burned and I would happily help with that, but I would not burn two for each one he would have burned if he is stopped.

Austinlad's avatar

I loved the first part, too. Only the first part.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Seaofclouds hmmm, interesting point you raise regarding national security. to be honest i have not given that side of the dilema much thought.

@Austinlad @Seaofclouds @Bluefreedom are there any alternative suggestions you might have for protecting the freedom of expression aspect (that is the only reason i mention burning them. i dont like book burning either)

trailsillustrated's avatar

I didn’t get the second part

poisonedantidote's avatar

@trailsillustrated the second part is basically regarding freedom of expression. while i wish this guy would not burn any books, i think he has the right to burn them. my idea is generally aimed at wasting his efforts, while protecting freedom of expression.

ragingloli's avatar

Here is a better idea:
Collect twice as many bibles and burn them. Announce it by saying that all moderate christians should support the bible burning

Bluefreedom's avatar

@poisonedantidote. That’s one of the problems with the First Amendment sometimes. It gives people a lot of latitude to do a lot of things no matter how extreme or how innocuous they might seem in the eyes of others.

There are always going to be contentious issues about what to do, what not to do, how far to take it, how much freedom do you give someone to express themselves or their views and so on and so forth. There are no easy answers or alternative solutions in instances such as this book burning event.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@ragingloli i did consider that, but it seems like two wrongs dont make a right to me.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Bluefreedom food for thought. thx.

mammal's avatar

Does anyone remember when Nazis used to burn books, remember those bibliophobic fucks?

poisonedantidote's avatar

@mammal yes, i must say Nazis have been on my mind more than ususal lately.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@poisonedantidote The pastor has put his message on the sign outside his church, he has had shirts printed with his message and had the children of his church wear them to school, he has already published a book with his message. He has his website and a Facebook page. He is expressing himself just fine.

Also, lets not forget that he was denied a permit for the book burning because it is against the fire ordinance in Gainsville.

Just curious, but this is suppose to be the website for the church. Does it not work for anyone else or is it just me? I was trying to get to it to find the name of his book.

Nullo's avatar

He’s not trying to destroy Korans, but to irritate Muslims.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@poisonedantidote a very valid point indeed, however i cant quite bring my self to accept that freedom of expression should be rationed.

anartist's avatar

Reminds me somehow of Abby Hoffman’s “Steal this Book” crossed with “Fahrenheit 451”
FOMAL

@Nullo that’s pilpul—it accomplishes the same thing—unless you think he is just talking through his yarmulke.

wait.I guess Baptists don’t have yarmulkes.

BTW Buy those T-shirts the pastor is making and sell them on eBay in 10 years!

@ragingloli LOL

@poisonedantidote Brilliant but maybe you should STFU.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Nullo yes, i think thats very possible, or he is just point blank crazy. the signs on his lawn would certainly support the crazy hypothesis.

Bluefreedom's avatar

@Nullo. And that’s the scary part from a military standpoint and from a military member’s viewpoint – he is putting the lives of hundreds of military members in jeopardy who are currently serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and burning the Koran could cause reprisals and further deepen the animosity that the Muslim populations over there already have toward the United States.

wilma's avatar

Sorry @poisonedantidote I can’t go along with your idea of burning the Qur’an. (not sure of the proper way to spell it, I see so many different versions)

The whole mess seems so childish and selfish. I wish that the press and everyone else would just ignore that crackpot in Florida. Unfortunately it’s gone way beyond that now.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@wilma yes, the press sure do have a lot to answer for on this one, had he been ignored no one would have ever known.

likewise on the spelling, i have seen both koran and quran on actual published copies

how about burning copies of the koran and then replacing them also?

poisonedantidote's avatar

@me… hmm, i think i just debunked my own argument. he has had way more attention that he could have ever got if the press had ignored him. maybe he has had his fair share of freedom of expression for now.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@poisonedantidote Unfortunately, I disagree about no one ever knowing. He put the word out on his own because he wanted to be heard. He put it on the internet on the church’s website and he started a Facebook page to support it. He wanted to be sure that the word got out. Once he spread the word of it, there really was no way to stop it from being seen by people all over the world (especially extremists that look out for this sort of thing). I think we need to speak out against it to show that we do not stand by idly and agree with him.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Seaofclouds something needs to be done about it, thats for sure.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@poisonedantidote Well it looks like the website for his church is down for now (at least it is for me).

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Seaofclouds maybe his hosting company have exercised their rights and told him where to stick it.

@general I think part of the problem is how people on the recieving end see this. they are saying things like “the americans are burning the koran” when its just one loon. maybe thats the price you pay for people saying “muslims blew up the twin towers” when it was just a handful of loons.

wilma's avatar

@poisonedantidote yes, that ^^^ sums it up doesn’t it?

Nullo's avatar

@poisonedantidote Actually, it’s fairly reasonable, given the context of Christianity, to conclude that all but one other faith is or else could be Satanically generated, inspired, or otherwise backed.
Basically, you’ve got Satan trying to draw everyone that he can away from the truth and the salvation that it brings. What better way to do that than to offer dummy alternatives? It’s like when competing TV stations have similar shows running at the same time.

Coloma's avatar

Just more social drama.

I could care less.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I think the idea…well, how can I put it nicely?...is stupid. To accomplish your end, all you need to do is not interrupt whatever happens – if they burn the Qu’rans, the freedom of expression is ‘protected’, if they don’t burn them and the police do what’s legally correct, that doesn’t mean freedom of expression was swarted.

iamthemob's avatar

Why just printing? Why not just get a petition going saying that each of the undersigned pledges to read and study the Koran with an open mind because of the churches attempt to destroy it? Show how many people are inspired to open their minds instead of do something destructive in response.

If shown how these acts have the opposite of the intended impact, and how significant it can be, they might (MIGHT, mind you) become less common. Regardless, they’ll definitely seem more crazy.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@iamthemob Funny that you mention that. There’s a group on Facebook now encouraging people to read the Qur’an. It’s actually called International Read a Qur’an Year. They just started up, but I think it’s a great idea. They want people to start reading on 9/11/10 and read it throughout the year.

iamthemob's avatar

@Seaofclouds

AWESOME – a response that requires people to educate themselves in the face of an ignorant act. THAT is exactly the kind of thing I believe we should be doing.

Thanks for the link!

Nullo's avatar

Out of curiosity, how many of you anti-Koran-burners were in favor or otherwise thought well of Draw Mohammad Day?
Since it’s basically the same thing: an insulting jab at the Muslims.

iamthemob's avatar

@Nullo

That seems like a pretty reductionist view. One is insulting to the entire religion. The other is insulting to extremism. One method promotes silence, the other promotes speech.

Nullo's avatar

@iamthemob No, they’re quite similar. You could even say that they’re both about promoting speech. But one comes from South Park, and the other one comes from a pastor, so obviously it must be different.
I dunno about promoting silence. Have you been listening to all the uproar?
Also, I’m pretty sure that all flavors of Muslims don’t want you to depict Mohammad.

Austinlad's avatar

What if, instead of a Koran Burning event, the church sponsored a Koran Enlighting event in which members of the Muslim and Christian communities could mingle, eat together, socialize, and most importantly, discuss their respective religious beliefs?

Seaofclouds's avatar

@Nullo I was against the draw Muhammad day as well. I don’t like being disrespectful to another group just because I can be.

Coloma's avatar

@Austinlad
@Seaofclouds

Yes, judging something one has zero understanding of, minus a few widely circulated and biased views is the epitomy of ignorance.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@Austinlad That’s a great idea. Unfortunately, from the sounds of things I’ve read from that church and the people that agree with what they are doing, they don’t even consider Muslim to be a religion. They consider it a cult.

iamthemob's avatar

The above being said, I can agree that a different response from the “Draw Mohammad Day” would have been better.

wgallios's avatar

I have a better idea, how about the media just stops talking, and blasting about it, and then no one will care anymore because no one will know.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Nullo – I didn’t think much of Draw Muhammed Day either.

cazzie's avatar

Well, American’s don’t like their Flag burned… and to some, that would be freedom of expression too.

Qingu's avatar

@Nullo, I have similar problems with both burning the Quran and Draw Muhammad Day—I think both are irresponsible in that they may well encourage insane people to commit murder or other violent acts.

However, there are differences; burning books is tackier and more reminiscent of Nazis than is drawing critical cartoons. Drawing Muhammad is a reaction against censorship; burning books is a form of censorship, or has been historically.

Austinlad's avatar

You’re probably right, @Seaofclouds, but what if the church across the street or around the corner held some sort of positive event—to say to Muslims, we’re not all book burners.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@Austinlad I think that would be great.

ducky_dnl's avatar

He decided not to burn the Qu’rans, and Imam (spelling?) decided to move the ground zero mosque as a deal. It seems like everything is okay now.

Bluefreedom's avatar

There has been no agreement to move the mosque at the current time. According to the article on MSN.com, here are quotes from Imam Muhammad Musri, the president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida:

“I told the pastor that I personally believe the mosque should not be there, and I will do everything in my power to make sure it is moved,” Musri said. “But there is not any offer from there (New York) that it will be moved. All we have agreed to is a meeting, and I think we would all like to see a peaceful resolution.”

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

I think that is a ridiculous idea. It has nothing to do with the number of Qu’rans in circulation, but the simple fact that people should not feel they have a right to incite violence. Freedom of speech has gone too far if people are free to do such things.

iamthemob's avatar

Freedom of speech is limited – the Supreme Court has upheld laws that regulate speech designed to incite violence and directed in a manner to do so, but the violence must be an immediate threat.

However, saying that people should rise up against their government, against organizations that control them, against dogmatic institutions is the very essence of free speech, considering that the American Revolution was built on a principle of…well…revolution.

Nullo's avatar

@ducky_dnl That’s good.
You could make the argument that, since Arabic does not use the Latin alphabet or even anything related to it, you could spell “koran” pretty much any way that still sounded right.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@iamthemob that is by far the best idea i have heard so far (a petition to read with an open mind)

however, from what i hear we will not need any of these ideas now. it looks like burn a koran day is now canceled. but sadly, i think the ordeal is now out of this mans hands, i have seen thousands of people online saying they will burn one or will burn as many as they can get their hands on.

cazzie's avatar

@Nullo That’s like saying, you could spell anything in the Bible anyway you wanted to because it was written in Greek and Hebrew. There are correct ways to translate and spell things with proper names. Translating Norwegian, if I see an ’å’, I’d better not write an ‘a’ in it’s place because that is not correct. Qu’ran (correct spelling) I meet many many people from different countries and I find it hard to pronounce their names, they forgive my pronunciation, but spelling their names right is very important.

Nullo's avatar

@cazzie I’ve said exactly that, though not here. The transcription conventions are entirely arbitrary.

Tomfafa's avatar

I’m confused… two copies times two except it would be four if he doesn’t burn…except we could burn korans… but not Qu’rans. This is such a smart site!

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