What are the chances of coming to Fluther with a relationship question, and being told to stay together and work it out?

If someone is married my advice is usually centered around ways to work it out but if there are already issues after only six months into the relationship then its pretty clear it will be tough for it to get better.
When I was married to my first husband I did everything to make it work. I would look at people that were miserable in dating situations and think, “you’re not even married! Why do you put up with that when you don’t have to?”
I gave that marriage everything I had. I was loyal and committed. Unfortunately he was mentally ill and he took his own life. It would have to be pretty abusive for me to recommend divorce but I have to admit that if someone is already having problems before their married marriage usually amplifies them and doesn’t solve them.

In general I am with @Judi.

I have also often expressed myself that way, I feel.

I also think that falling in love with someone else or even having an affair shouldn’t necessarily end a relationship.

Sure, you should address those things , because you shouldn’t, but they can happen and are part of life.
That seems to mostly trigger break up advises with others, though.

It seems like most people don’t ask relationship questions until things get really bad. In those situations, I can see why we’d be more likely to tell them to DTMFA. I have seen some people ask relationship questions before it gets to that point, people who just want to make their decent relationships better. In those cases, I generally try to help them achieve that goal.

I’ve suggested people seek counselling on many occasions. On other occasions, usually in a fairly short-term relationship, I’ve suggested the person run in the opposite direction. It is only advice though and personally, I rarely expect people to act on the advice given until they reach the same decision.

I haven’t analysed whether relationship advice on Fluther generally leans towards ‘dump them’ or ‘work at it’. If the ‘dump’ advice is dominant perhaps we are all a bunch of cynics. Maybe we’ve analysed too many dreams and lost faith.

I don’t know, but some of the mean-spirited fuckers on here couldn’t be positive if their lives depended on it.

@UCME just like real life, isn’t it?

We’re kind of a practical, non-romantic bunch.

Does divorce increase adult’s happiness?

Waite, et al. (2002) examined a national representative sample of 5,232 happy and unhappy married adults over a five year period:
• “Unhappily married adults who divorced or separated were no happier, on average, than unhappily married adults who stayed married.”
• “Divorce did not reduce symptoms of depression for unhappily married adults, or raise their self-esteem, or increase their sense of mastery, on average, compared to unhappy spouses who stayed married. This was true even after controlling for race, age, gender, and income.”
• “The vast majority of divorces (74 percent) happened to adults who had been happily married five years previously.”
• “Unhappy marriages were less common than unhappy spouses. Three out of four unhappily married adults were married to someone who was happy with the marriage.”
• “Staying married did not typically trap unhappy spouses in violent relationships. Eighty-six percent of unhappily married adults reported no violence in their relationship (including 77 percent of unhappy spouses who later divorced or separated). Ninety-three percent of unhappy spouses who avoided divorce reported no violence in their marriage five years later.”
• “Two out of three unhappily married adults who avoided divorce or separation ended up happily married five years later.”
• “Many currently happily married spouses have had extended periods of marital unhappiness, often for quite serious reasons, including alcoholism, infidelity, verbal abuse, emotional neglect, depression, illness, and work reversals.”
• “Spouses who turned their marriages around seldom reported that counseling played a key role” (pp. 4–6).

Just to provide some perspective…

Waite, L., Browning, D., Doherty, W.J., Gallagher, M., Luo, Y. & Stanley, S.M. (2002). “Does Divorce Make People Happy? Findings from a Study of Unhappy Marriages” Institute for American Values, New York.

@whitenoise Those stats are very interesting. I wish they were divided by gender.

@poisonedantidote I would say 75% of the time I am advising to break up, bit as others mentioned, if someone is writing a Q about relationships probably things are already going down hill. The other 25% of the time I assume there might be a miscommunication between the couple or unrealistic expectations and advise talking to each other or trying to understand the other person’s perspective, sometimes I suggest therapy. I have a few times been in the minority of answers telling someone not to jump ship too fast. It happened recently on a Q where most jellies were afraid a boyfriend was very controlling, bordering abusive. I didn’t think it was definitely the case and was more moderate in my response. My only point is I think collective In general does recommend breaking up much more often than not, but It is mostly because people who are asking probably know they should break up and are looking for support or a push. But, certainly we get Q’s that genuinely want to make their relationship better, which is different than being fed up with an SO or very unhappy with their SO.

@whitenoise Not in my world, I don’t personally experience any of those negative bastards on here, but i’ve witnessed it frequently & shrugged it off…as you do.

You have a very poor memory then. Break up is always a last resort with me if it is a serious committed relationship between two adults.

But young people often go about picking the wrong person. For example, there was a question yesterday with a very physically active girl who was hooked up with a video-game playing, TV watching guy who never wanted to move off the couch, She was very unhappy. There was no fix there. Neither of them is going to change their basic natures.

I usually would give advice to stay together unless the person they are married to is cruel in some way. I do know it takes two to tango and there is a chance the OP isn’t being up front about their behavior in the marriage. But either way; people in an abusive relationship should divorce and if they are both abusive, neither should ever marry again until they are done with much needed therapy.

But it is often miscommunication and inexperience that creates rifts in a marriage and I will usually point it out to them and remind them of the vows they took. If they didn’t mean it, than they should’ve never married. I will remind most that marriage comes in waves. There will definitely be good times and bad times and you can usually overcome the bad times by remembering that you are in it together.

The kinds of responses that Fluther generates are pretty much what you’d expect from folks who don’t really know either of the people involved, have no emotional stake in the relationship, know very little of the historical and personal contexts of the problem, and are only given the perspective of one of the parties.

With a crappy data set like that, you end up basing your answer on “objective” analysis of the situation (and frankly, if we were all completely objective, I’m not sure many of us would even have relationships at all). Alternatively, the question may remind us of some past injury we sustained in a relationship, so we may be responding out of the resentment we still feel from that.

It amazes me how many people seem to think Fluther is good source for relationship advice, given all these inherent weaknesses.

Slim to none, I’d say, which is why I generally don’t ask for relationship advice here. I think people are too quick to give up on relationships and even more quick to write off relationships of others as not being worth it.

There are problems in all relationships. The difference is that some people come online to ask others about it and some don’t. People seem to think that seeking help on Fluther automatically means your relationship is doomed. And considering some people get married only a few months into a relationship at the same time that some date for years without ever tying the knot, the whole married vs. dating thing doesn’t really work either. As if only marriages are worth saving…

I once asked a question on Fluther on a previous username because I was having a low sex drive issue that made me feel badly because my self confidence was getting in the way of my sex life with my then-fiancé. The very first answer was that I’d had so much sex with him early in the relationship that I was bored with him, the passion was gone, and to please not marry him. What?! Now, I won’t go into details on my libido/confidence issues that still exist, but that one hit me out of left field. Call off a wedding because you don’t have a high sex drive? No.

I also think a huge problem on Fluther is that so many people go into a question with a pre-conceived opinion based on the title of the question, skim over the details (if they even look at them at all), and then post an answer that isn’t even based on the question. Then there are those who join a conversation without bothering to read over the discussion, which bugs the hell out of me.

I do not agree with those stats, at all.
I cannot find the links, but….bottom line, staying in emotionally unrewarding relationships or dealing with chronic discord, contempt and unhappiness is very detrimental to ones health on every level.
I think the opposite holds true.
Most couples do not give up too easily, they slog it out, sometimes for years, if not decades, rather than make a healthy choice to move on if issues cannot be solved in a timely manner and resolved without recycling them over & over again.

I know I have read that staying in unhappy and unhealthy relationships is one of the worst possible stressors for poor health on a mental and physical level.
This is why recent psychology has touted removing toxic people from your sphere.
I can say that divorcing my ex was the best thing I ever did and my self esteem and happiness sky rocketed and hit a plateau that lasted, literally, for about 6 years straight.

IMO, aside from the realistic periods all couples go through on occasion, where there may be a disconnect, other life stresses taking up the individuals energies and basic disagreements that arise, to stay in an unhappy relationship is not, ever, going to be in anyones best interest.
This notion of slogging it out for eternity is unhealthy and inertia never promotes growth.
I think the “forever” idea of relationship is damaging and keeps people holding on long past what is a sane and healthy amount of time.

True “love” is wanting what’s best for each other, even if that means that what is best is to break up so each individual can learn and grow and move forward, not stay stuck in a place of inertia and stagnation, personally or in the relationship.

Before I read any comments, I want to reply because I feel the same way from everything I’ve read here on fluther.

My grandparents were married for over fifty years. They fought, they made up, they were together holding hands when my gma passed away, and gpa said he’d do it all over again with her, regardless of the troubles including a child passing away early in life.

This has become a disposable society where nothing substantial is truly valued. Finding someone that you love and that loves you is not easy. I hear so many people saying they ‘love’, but would they walk away if it was better for the other person? Would you change your husband’s diaper if he got in a car accident today? Do you truly love or even know what it means?

People at my mom’s job, which is for the mentally ill, complain about lonliness being a major factor in their depression, suicidal tendencies and life in general. I know that God sanctioned my marriage, and in troubled times, I still turn to Him and ask Him to show me what to do, how to proceed, how to keep my marriage sacred, and so far it’s working for me.

@Coloma

Statistics are only true on a group level. Don’t extrapolate to individuals too easily.

@Coloma I don’t think this is about the, “my husband cheats on me, I don’t like being around him, I’m very unhappy” situations. Toxic relationships should end. However, assuming someone is unhappy in their relationship because it’s not all rainbows and butterflies isn’t doing anyone any favors. Unless someone says they indeed are unhappy, I’m not going to assume they are.

@whitenoise True, however, it is widely accepted that unhealthy relationships are NOT better than none at all.
@livelaughlove21 I agree, but being unhappy for more than a reasonable amount of time IS a toxic condition to self.
Being unhappy is a perfectly justifiable reason to leave a relationship even if there is no extreme toxicity.

My point is that more people stay too long in unhappy and unhealthy relationships than do those that throw in the towel over the most minor of problems and frustrations.

@livelaughlove21 I agree. You have to work at a great relationship and marriage is the ultimate ‘team’ sport. You have financial issues, family issues, ‘getting to know each other’ issues, then ten years later the newness wears off and there’s a whole other batch of issues. It’s constant work that not everybody is willing to put into anything. :(

I think that if you are in an unhappy relationship, you get out. Life is too short to deliberately do something that is not bringing you satisfaction. If there are children involved, I feel if they are not seeing a model of cooperation, equality and general good will, then it is not a good model for them to eventually emulate. No nothing is 100% perfect, but if there is underlying ill will, it is not good for anyone to continue it.

That is why it is important to be very very sure of your situation before you bring children into the equation.

My husband and I have been married 38 years so I do believe in long term relations. I don’t think there is any value in staying in a bad relationship.

When an issue is so bad one person brings it up online, it is usually already too late.

I would be interested in seeing some actual statistics to back up your comments, since I haven’t come to the same conclusion.

Industry standard measurements show it is 62.45% of the time.

@blueiiznh : )

What? Did no one else’s bullshit meter go off at the suggestion that the unwillingness to work on relationships might be behind the AIDS pandemic?

Most of the relationship questions I notice on here are either from people who are already in toxic situations, often involving abuse, or children who are engaging in magical thinking. I’m pretty sure that I would not bring a relationship question to a random internet forum unless I were already pretty desperate.

I feel that the injunctions to stick together “for better and for worse,” etc., made more sense when marriage was viewed as a primarily economic arrangement, as mutual support for two heterosexual people who could afford marriage and their eventual offspring. Love was a nice thing if it happened, but it wasn’t viewed as a ‘necessary’ part of the picture. For a long time, only rich people could afford to marry for romantic considerations, and even the richest people were married for dynastic purposes.

Lots of people end up in relationships because they think they are supposed to be in one. You’re not a real person unless you are in a monogamous relationship. But if your priority in looking for a marriage partner is “twue love” rather than economic necessity, then chances are you will be more inclined to jump ship if the relationship doesn’t feel “perfect.” I definitely feel that Western popular culture has set impossibly high standards for what love should be like. I think about this a lot, but I don’t have any good answers for it :-/

@bookish1 I do get what you’re saying, thanks for sharing your thoughts on that.

In my personal opinion, I still think ‘for better and for worse’ and ‘true love’ are worth fighting for, even lacking the perfection so many people seek. Sometimes I think it’s the reality that your mate or SO has faults, just like you do, that make people long to give up and walk away. And that you can’t really change what your spouse is or does, it’s not in your control.

All I’m saying is that loving someone is not easy BUT with the right person, it can transcend all the typical b.s. if you see it through.

@bookish1 I think western culture, actually I am going to narrow it to American culture, has set unrealistic standards and expectations about love, marriage, and happiness. Too many people equate all three of those things as having to be some sort of “hi.” Other cultures appreciate daily life in a different way than Americans do. I think even parts of Europe that are also western culture have more realistic views of these things. Anger, hurt, and sadness often comes from things falling short of our expectations, so Americans are often set up to be dissappointed, sad, depressed, etc., by our expectations and environment.

That’s my take anyway.

Back to relationships, I never tell anyone they should be in a reationship or married or make judgments about people who are or prefer to be single. But, I will say as a married person for a long time, there is somethng very nice about being committed to the same person for a long time.