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Aster's avatar

Have you heard of the reason Judas had to betray Jesus with a kiss?

Asked by Aster (20023points) June 29th, 2016

An ancient manuscript translates that Jesus could “change shape and color” so Judas had to kiss him so the Roman soldiers could arrest the right guy. Have you read this? http://www.livescience.com/27840-shape-shifting-jesus-ancient-text.html

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24 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

That text is only 1,200 years old, not quite what is usually called “ancient”. Sounds like some kind of fan-fic.

Aster's avatar

Sorry. I thought 1,200 years old would make it ancient. I guess “old” is a more accurate term?

stanleybmanly's avatar

The stories are endless. It’s never gonna stop.

Aster's avatar

^^^^^^^^ I hope not !

elbanditoroso's avatar

Jesus the shape shifter? Oh please. That’s not even good science fiction.

Pachy's avatar

Two words: oy vey.

filmfann's avatar

A television evangelist used to say that Jesus had the ability to turn invisible. I remember my Mom being quite amazed to hear such a thing. I don’t buy it, but I wasn’t there.

chyna's avatar

I don’t think the point of Jesus being on earth was to scare people and being a shape shifter would definitely qualify as scary.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Well technically, shape & color shifting would be no more fantastic than the other “miracles”. As the tales spread, they grow ever more fantastic, just like any other rumor or gossip. It always puzzles me that people find credence in any of it. I mean which of the fables do you pick?

Aster's avatar

@stanleybmanly I think Christians tend to believe in only the reports of miracles in the Bible. If they aren’t there they don’t believe it. I tend to give credence to any so-called fables about Jesus and love reading about them.

ragingloli's avatar

Jesus being a Dominion infiltrator sent to earth to cause instability, ensuring success of a future Jem’Hadar invasion?
It all makes sense now.

Seek's avatar

What does shape-shifting Jesus accomplish that the simple fact that random soldiers didn’t know what some minor criminal looked like doesn’t?

stanleybmanly's avatar

It makes the hero “magical.” After all, who gives a fuck whether or not Clark Kent is a good guy?

kritiper's avatar

Jesus Christ, if he truly existed, was merely a man and nothing more. And people will believe anything they want to. Like Santa Claus.
Judas betrayed Christ for 30 pieces of silver, if I recall correctly. So what else is new??

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

Besides the Biblical explanation, which is that he simply betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver, there is the idea among some Christians that Judas was the most loyal and trustworthy of all the Apostles and, because of this, Judas was designated by Jesus himself to betray him in order to fulfill the prophecy—to get the ball rolling, so to speak. According to this, the event broke Judas’ heart and resulted in him committing suicide soon afterward. It makes about as much sense, really, than any other twist to this mythology. There is no extra-biblical evidence of any of this ever happening.

CWOTUS's avatar

It’s quite amazing to me, as a former Christian who became a non-theist entirely, how with consecutive breaths people – including “preachers” and others who claim to know the Bible backward and forward – can claim that God’s ways are unknown and cannot be known to us, and then proclaim that God wants us to be happy and to do good. And be perfectly certain and smug that both statements are undeniably true.

What is it about religion that causes people to not only suspend logic, but suspend it and then bang on it like a piñata?

janbb's avatar

@Espiritus_Corvus Last week, I saw Rembrandt’s first major painting “Thirty Pieces of Silver.” It was Judas before Pontius Pilate in agony and mortification for having betrayed Jesus.

“Shape-shifter” makes me think of Harry Potter. Was Judas one of the Dementors?

XOIIO's avatar

Was he horny?

ragingloli's avatar

They should turn the Jesus myth into a yaoi manga.

hsrch's avatar

@Espiritus_Corvus: Several years ago, I read a novel by Norman Mailer entitled “The Gospel According to the Son”. As I recall, this novel put forth the proposition that Jesus himself was the architect of his own betrayal. He did this, apparently to fulfill, in part, the Old Testament prophesy of the coming of the Messiah.

Interesting stuff.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

I find Judas one of the most interesting characters in our Christian mythology. There are a plethora of different interpretations of his motives for the betrayal and resultant ignominious death.

The Gnostics believe he was the most faithful of the Apostles, that he was designated by Christ himself to betray him and thus fulfilling the prophecies of the Old Testament, such as that of Jeremiah, that led to the salvation of man by the son of god (as I described in a former post here and @hsrch describes above). Greek author Nikos Kazanzakis, in his excellent book The Last Temptation of Christ, also promotes the idea that Judas was the only Apostle trustworthy enough to be recruited by Jesus to betray him, to get the job done, to get the prophecies underway—at great personal sacrifice to both of them.

The Cainites believed that Judas acted under the influence of the Sophia, or Divine Wisdom, and represented a victory over the materialist world.

Mathew 27:3 – 10 says that Judas returned the money to the priests and committed suicide by hanging himself. They used it to buy the potter’s field. The Gospel account presents this as a fulfillment of prophecy.

The Acts of the Apostles says that Judas used the money to buy a field, but “fell headfirst, and burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.” This field is called Akeldama or The Field of Blood.

Here is where the books of the Apocrypha get really interesting: The Gospel of Barnabas states that it was Judas and not Jesus who was crucified on the cross. The Gospel of Mary, Jesus’ mother, even states that Mary initially thought the person arrested was her son because of the physical similarities. But nothing further is mentioned as to the identity of the actual crucifixion victim after that one passage.

The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that Judas Iscariot criticized Jesus for his extravagance when Jesus got his feet washed by a woman with expensive oils and perfumes and suggested that the money be better spent on the poor. Evidently they argued and this is why Judas spoke to the priests about betraying Christ for money. (For some reason, it is important in the Greek versions that Judas is a redhead, but I don’t understand the significance of this.)

Another account, by the Greek Papias from about 100 A.C.E., states that Judas unhappily went on for a couple of years leading an “impious” life, got really, really fat and, one day while walking on a road where “two chariots could pass easily”... “was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out.”

Dante placed Judas in the lowest circle in hell; the Ninth Circle of Traitors. Here, he is eternally chewed on by the three-headed Satan. According to Dante, there were only three people so evil as to earn this punishment: Cassius and Brutus, the assassins of Julius Caesar, and Judas. Obviously Senior Alighieri hadn’t yet heard of the atrocities committed by Ghengis Khan, his contemporary, or anticipated Vlad the Impaler, Transylvanian Elizabeth Bathory (a distant relative of Vlad’s through the bloody House of Drăculești), Stalin or Hitler—all betrayers of humanity itself. I suspect the three-headed devil down on the 9th is happily masticating to SRO crowds by now.

Some of the oldest surviving English ballads are those by Francis Child from the mid-13th century, contemporary with Dante Alighieri, one of which is called the Ballad of Judas.
In the ballad, the blame for Christ’s betrayal is placed upon Judas’ sister. Christ gives Judas 30 pieces of silver to buy food for the Apostles; on his way to the market, Judas is waylaid by his sister, who lulls him to sleep and steals the money. Unwilling to confess his loss, Judas sells Christ to the Romans for the same amount. (I guess you had to be there.)

So who was this Judas Iscariot? The Greek New Testament calls him Loudas, interpreted from the Hebrew to mean “God is Praised.” The name Iscariot is interpreted in Hebrew as “a man from Kerioth,” a region in Judea. The Gospel of John refers to him as the son of Simon of Iscariot. Another theory is that “Iscariot” identifies Judas as a member of the Sicarii. These were a cadre of assassins among Jewish rebels intent on driving the Romans out of Judea. Another interpretation is that “Iscariot” derives from the Aramaic word for “liar” or “false one.” Another associates “Iscariot” to yet another Aramaic word meaning “to deliver.”

C.S.Lewis specifically used the conflicting biblical stories of Judas to declare that the Bible was not historical truth. St. Augustine, the Great Harmonizer, suggested that these apparently conflicting depictions simply describe different aspects of the same event – that Judas hanged himself in the field, and the rope eventually snapped and the fall burst his body open, or that the accounts of Acts and Matthew refer to two different transactions. C. S. Lewis and others before him took the metaphorical view, that the “falling prostrate” was Judas in anguish, and the “bursting out of the bowels” was his pouring out emotion.

But all these conflicting stories, all this inconsistency occupying vast numbers of people in argument—wars even—constantly from the time of the Gospels themselves soon to be followed by Constantine’s major redactions, from the Levant to the Greeks to Rome and beyond—are about fixing the Bible, setting all the stories of our mythology on an anvil and pounding them into one comprehensive epic devoid of inconsistency and perfect in it’s understandably human continuity—A book that tells, metaphorically at least, the legend of how we came to be and how we aspire to higher things in spite of our many faults.

But what that means is that it’s not about fixing the Bible, is it? It’s about fixing us.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Perhaps Judas was Jesus’ gay lover… Makes more sense than most theological stories.

SmartAZ's avatar

Shape shifting? Not even worth discussing.

There are several things you need to remember. One is that God and His people dwell in reality, not some religious magical baloney. Another is that if somebody doesn’t believe the gospel, then by definition it makes no sense to them, and that means they don’t hesitate to relate it to any other nonsense they can find or make up. Your only protection in this business is to learn God’s word and compare everything to that. Read a chapter of Proverbs every day. Proverbs has 31 chapters so you can keep your place by just looking at a calendar. There is no religion or nothing in Proverbs and you don’t have to believe anything. Just read to find comfort and confidence. When you are comfortable with that, then read the bible from Romans to 2 Thessalonians over and over until you start to remember what it says. That is the part that applies to Christians.

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