Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

Do you see anything wrong with a woman trading up sex in exchange for things she needs or wants that she can't get by herself?

Asked by Dutchess_III (39493points) 1 week ago

For example, I know a young woman who owns her own home, and won’t hesitate to have sex in exchange for the guy doing remodeling projects around her house…most recently she got a new kitchen floor out of it. When the project is done, they both move on. She’s happy, he’s happy.

Assuming pregnancy and STDs aren’t a problem, do you see anything wrong with it?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

130 Answers

Darth_Algar's avatar

No. Use whatever capital you have.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I agree. If it makes everybody happy, why not?

Zaku's avatar

Depends on how adult, clear, fair and honest the communications around it are.

gorillapaws's avatar

The difference between paying for sex and getting it for free is that it’s cheaper to pay for sex.

I think Woody Allen said that, or something similar.

mazingerz88's avatar

No problem for me. Adults, no one gets hurt except maybe that…floor.

rebbel's avatar

Whoring for flooring.
Why not.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

But who is the “whore” @rebbel?

rebbel's avatar

It was merely done for alliteration.
I have absolutely no problem (I mean, who am I to judge that) with how someone manages their sex actions.
As long as there is understanding and consent from both parties.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

It was a good one rebbel. I immediately thought “Balling for walling!” but I didn’t say anything because I had a feeling this Q might take a crazy turn at that point…

josie's avatar

Why not?
But how would the IRS look at that.
Could physicians and school teachers, cops and firemen make the same deal on a daily basis and get away with it.
Why or why not?

gorillapaws's avatar

@josie “Could physicians and school teachers, cops and firemen make the same deal on a daily basis and get away with it.
Why or why not?”

No. Because those professions have authority. They could use those positions of authority to extort and sexually abuse women (or men too I guess). “Your kid needs this surgery? Blow me and I’ll keep him alive.”—That kind of crap should remain very illegal.

josie's avatar

@gorillapaws
What if they did not demand it, but were offered it?
In exchange for an elective cosmetic procedure, or special tutoring for the SAT?
A warning on a speeding ticket?

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Well…I guess all goes. If a woman, or man, offers the cop a blow job to get out of a speeding ticket…what’s the harm if it’s a go?

josie's avatar

Bet he would lose his job if it made the evening news.
But other than that, no problem.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Not at all. Because it’s above board, it’s an honest exchange.

Capitalism at its best.

chyna's avatar

It happens all the time with dishonest doctors. They get a blow job or sex for pain pills. It’s illegal.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

As long as both parties understand what the deal is, have at it. For me shallow sex is not any better than rubbing one out and carries heavy risks, especially today so… no thanks.

Kardamom's avatar

This is not something that I would want to teach my daughter to do. I would not want her to think that she is for sale, or that her sexuality is for sale, or worse, up for grabs. I’m sure my view isn’t going to be popular, but I think humans are more than their body parts, and more than just about getting turned on, or turning on other people.

I would not do it, because I think it’s gross, and lowers a female to the status of a product, and makes some other people think that it’s OK to treat other people (who are not offering up this type of exchange) as if every woman is fair game, and for sale.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@Dutchess_lll: “Do you see anything wrong with a woman trading up sex in exchange for things she needs or wants that she can’t get by herself?”

@Dutchess_lll: “When the project is done, they both move on. She’s happy, he’s happy.”

This is an exchange in which there is no power imbalance, as @gorillapaws points out. And both parties have entered into the exchange voluntarily, and are described as “happy”. How can anyone have any issue with this?

@Kardamom – Your moralizing and lack of understanding about what work is aside – are you saying that there is something wrong for this woman, who is “happy”, to do what she does? I understand that you wouldn’t do it. But are you passing judgement on her choices? It certainly sounds like you are.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Kardamom – OK, don’t teach your daughter. But if she chooses to, herself, with a sound mind, then who are you to tell her? (assuming she is an adult).

But the real fact is that we all sell ourselves to our employers. Every day. I do things that I might disagree with strategically, because I work for a company that asks me to do them, and I like getting paid.

In fact, a woman who knowingly and willingly and voluntarily sells her sexual services (I am making the point that working for a pimp is not in that category), is actually more honest about her business than a lot of other people.

She knows the value of her product (herself) and she is maximizing her return. And she doesn’t report to a corporate structure – she is responsible only to herself.

I would argue that a woman who openly sells her sexual services is the embodiment of the American dream, a true capitalist, and someone who, if successful, is to be emulated.

Free market capitalism. The American Way.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^I thought about the possibility of opening Pandora’s Box so to speak if prostitution gets legalized in the US. Not sure but I can imagine thousands of women of all ages would go into it and there will be a greater number of men who would patronize them regularly.

Darth_Algar's avatar

I’d certainly argue that my father has been selling his body for decades.

Kardamom's avatar

@hmmm of course I am moralizing. Everyone is. I think that other women selling their bodies is shitty, although they can and will do what they please, buy when they do that, then other people think that it’s OK to buy them, or to take them.

Everybody who has an opinion on this subject is moralizing. You just don’t like my opinion.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Everyone who works sells their bodies.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@Kardamom: “You just don’t like my opinion.”

Fair enough.

seawulf575's avatar

I have to wonder, though…where do you draw the line? Is it okay for a girl to trade sex for drugs? How about sex for cash? After all, it would be something she needs that she may not be able to get for herself. Questions like this are slippery because it doesn’t set any limit on what would be acceptable.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@seawulf575 a libertarian would say that if both parties are willing, there should be no limits at all, because it is a private transaction.

Go back to your basic law school Contracts class. You need:

-an offer

-acceptance

-consideration (something of value to exchange)

-competence (the authority to make the deal)

-mutual consent (both parties agree willingly)

-written on paper (well, this isn’t usually done in sexual encounters, although it could be)

-legality (this is where it gets tricky. Should sexual commerce be illegal?)

seawulf575's avatar

@elbanditoroso at that last part, the legality, is where it gets really sketchy. There is precedence in business concerning what “gifts” can be accepted from a vendor or contractor. Many “gifts” have to be considered as cash, such as giving a good employee a gift card to the local steak house. The value has to be tracked and reported as income if over $50 in a year. So technically, the woman trading sex for home repairs or remodeling is selling sex and since the value is probably over $50, she could be viewed as being a prostitute which is illegal everywhere in the US except some counties in Nevada. My point was that while I am all for healthy sexual relationships and would see nothing wrong with, say, a boyfriend doing something nice for a girlfriend free of charge, when the sole purpose of the sex is to pay a bill, you are entering into a different aspect.

Darth_Algar's avatar

“Your honor, my client never exchanged his services for sexual favors. He remodeled the woman’s kitchen pro bono, as a favor to a friend. Anything that may have happened beyond that is strictly a matter between consenting adults. But sex for services rendered was never agreed upon or implied.”

Dutchess_III's avatar

@seawulf575 A woman can have sex with any consenting adult that she wants to, for any reason at all. And, for the record, I think that prostitution should be legalized. I don’t know why it isn’t. The bad part about prostitution is it’s so damn dangerous for the women. If it was legal the women would be much safer.

@josie Policemen, doctors, lawyers, etc. are professionals and would have a much greater liability if they they trade their professional services for a blow job, and someone dies or something.
The men that my acquaintance has do the work for her are just regular guys with no particular training in remodeling. She knows what she wants done, and she knows how to do it, but the guys just have the physical strength do do what she physically can’t.
It’s not the same as a licensed electrician wiring your house for a blow job, but then the house burns down because they screwed it up.

@Darth_Algar I’m trying to imagine what legal scenario a man might find himself having to say all of that in court. What would the charges be?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Wow. That’s an interesting trade, and I see nothing wrong with it. I’m just wondering about the trade. Just labor or labor & materials? How about meals? Does he move in for the duration? It would be wonderful to witness the negotiation of the “contract”.

Dutchess_III's avatar

She pays for the materials. He kind of moves in for duration. He’s there a lot, anyway.
I don’t know how they arrive at the “agreement.” I somehow doubt it’s super specific. You know, gotta keep the “mystic” surrounding sex alive some how. I would think he’d have to feel like she WANTS to be with him, not that it’s a mere trade. Maybe he doesn’t even know he’s being used…not that he’s complaining.

It happens allllll the time in the real world, women trading sex for stuff. It just not usually quite this blatant, unless she’s an actual prostitute.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I think your observation is right on the money. It’s a rule as eternal as time. Just another version of “marry a doctor” or “if you give away the milk, he’ll never buy the cow.”

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III The issue is not should prostitution legal or not. Right now it is illegal in most places. And the places that it is legal there are rules concerning health standards that have to be met.
Another consideration…should a man be able to trade sex for services? In your example you have a woman trying to improve her home and using sex for it. So let me ask…if it was your husband, would it be okay for him to do the work for sex? By your rationale, a man should be able to have sex with any consenting adult he wants to, for whatever reason he wants to. Is that the standard you are applying or are you sexist?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@seawulf575

The question wasn’t about legal or not, it was about personal views. Also it said nothing about the people involved being married or not, but it’s rather beside the premise.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 No one said anything about a married man or woman making deals outside their marriage. But then again if the spouses consent, where’s the foul?

Dutchess_III's avatar

^^ Everything they said. And yes. A man should be able to have sex with any consenting adult he wants to, assuming he hasn’t entered into an agreement or contract with someone NOT to

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly , @Darth_Algar and @Dutchess_III I didn’t see a point where it excluded married women. In fact, @Dutchess_III said a woman could have sex with whomever she wanted for whatever reason she wanted. Again…not excluding married. As for legal…legality does play a part. You are exchanging sex for something. That is considered prostitution in many places. So yes, there is a legal aspect. But okay, married women (and men) aren’t going to go off on their own. But with the attitude of it being okay to exchange sex for services, how would you feel if you husband asked you to have sex with the mechanic to pay for a costly auto repair? I mean it should be okay, right? And he isn’t having sex…he is asking you to have sex because it should be okay to use sex to pay for things. Isn’t that the supposition? Isn’t that the answer you are trying to push?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t know why everyone but you was able to assume that the people involved were single and not otherwise committed to others. But I’ll make this clear: I am asking your opinion @seawulf575. Is it OK for a woman (or a man,) who is not married or otherwise committed to another person, to trade up sexual favors with another consenting adult for material gain?

Why or why not?

seawulf575's avatar

How about this angle….if a woman offered a guy sex to put in a new floor but he is a married guy, can have her charged with sexual harassment?

Sorry, @Dutchess_III maybe if you want to exclude married folks up front, you should state it…up front. Being married might influence someone’s opinion for the question. Not surprisingly, it didn’t for any of these folks (except @Josie…he didn’t bring it up and I figured he might). As for my opinion, I did give it…repeatedly. You and some of the others just wanted to try discounting my opinion by adding parameters to the question that weren’t there to start.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Sure. If he wanted to sue her for harassment I guess he could, especially if she wouldn’t take no for an answer and kept hitting on him. What does that have to do with any thing?

Like I said, everyone was able to assume all parties were single and eligible except you, and you are super hung up on that for some reason, so I apologize. But even at that, if the spouses and girlfriends are OK with it, then why not?

I am not exactly sure what your opinion is, although I get the impression that it’s a negative, that she shouldn’t be “allowed” to do that, or it isn’t OK, but I don’t know why.

seawulf575's avatar

It’s very simple…it borders on prostitution. Want another reason? Okay…it opens up a whole new can of worms as to what is and isn’t acceptable. It used to be acceptable to kiss a woman good night after a kiss. Now you need to ensure you have full permission, preferably in writing, or else you could be accused of being a sexual predator. Now you want women to do whatever they want with sex. What signals are you sending? I’m not really a prude, but c’mon…pick a side and stay with it. Is it okay to be open about your desires about sex or not? And again…if it is okay for a woman to offer sex for services, is it equally okay for a guy to ask for sex for payment? That always seemed really sleazy to me, but maybe you like sleazy?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 But it is YOU who added the parameters. The rest of us assumed both parties to be single. You added marriage to the argument. The question put no extenuating limitations such as the woman is a nun or the man a priest.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly and there we have the “ahhhhh” moment. You assumed. I did not. I went with what was there and considered it from all sorts of angles. I didn’t just go with what the questioner wanted as the answer. But you bring up an interesting thought….would it be okay for a priest to ask for sex for taking confessions? How about to perform a christening? Marriage? “Yes, I will do your marriage ceremony, but instead of paying me, just a little sex would do.” Would that be okay? Now it is likely the priest isn’t married so that should be okay, right?

Dutchess_III's avatar

What is wrong with prostitution? It’s easy money.

And sure. A guy can ask for sex as payment. Doesn’t mean he’s going to get it.

And you say it’s “sleazy.” Well, a lot of men are forever after sex with almost any women for a lot less than a floor or a new room! Are they “sleazy?”

seawulf575's avatar

Ahh…so prostitution should be okay. You’d be okay with your husband going to a prostitute? After all, it is mainly married guys that go there.

As for are most guys sleazy? Yes….they are horn dogs and generally have little couth, much less respect for themselves or the women they are chasing after.

So let me get this straight….you believe it is okay for a guy to ask for sex as payment for services, providing he and the woman are both consenting adults, right? Okay…so Harvey Weinstein really did nothing wrong. He asked for sex for the service of advancing a starlet’s career. And she willingly accepted. So why is #MeToo so hard against him?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 Once again, you assume facts not in evidence. The question isn’t about whether EVERYONE is entitled to trade sex for favors. It involves a man or a woman—-the end. Now once you introduce parameters— a man with aids—a woman with a house full of little kids— the game changes & of course the answer must vary.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yes prostitution is OK, LOL! Why wouldn’t it be? If a married man goes to prostitutes, that’s between him and his wife. Maybe his wife doesn’t care. Maybe she’s sick of sex and glad that he’s not pestering her for it any more.
It’s not my business. Is it your business?

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly I don’t know if you are purposely avoiding looking at where this question leads or not. Everything I have brought up is just a consideration of where the attitude that using sex as money could go. Yet I guess when I get to places that make you uncomfortable I am suddenly making stuff up. You say I’m assuming facts not in evidence. I considered that maybe the woman or the man were married. Was there a fact in evidence to say I was wrong? No. You assumed it was only a single woman. Was that fact in evidence? No. But because it is what you wanted to assume you want to treat it as a fact. You show me where it states this woman in the question was a single woman. You show me where it says that being married was wrong. That only came up when I used it as a consideration that you and some of the others didn’t like. Then you all want to hold your assumptions as facts and want me to be wrong for not adhering to them.
The question is about a man or a woman trading sex for favors. That is extremely vague. You need more parameters to come up with an informed opinion. Based on that simple, vague statement, it sounds exactly like prostitution. Isn’t that what a prostitute does…trade sex for favors? Yet as soon as I bring that up you want that to be wrong.
I think your hang up is that you don’t want to consider all the aspects of that question can bring up. A man and a woman having sex for favors. Is the man married? Is the woman? If sex is being used as payment, that makes it a currency which makes it like prostitution. What about different services that are being provided? Is it okay to ask for sex for payment? These are all logical aspects of a question that you chose to make a poor assumption about.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III Wait a minute…a man going to a prostitute is between him and his wife? What happened to “A woman can have sex with any consenting adult that she wants to, for any reason at all. ”? So a married man cannot have sex with a consenting adult if he wants to? Now you want to throw the stipulation that only single guys can. But now you are adding the stipulations. See? When you start thinking about the different aspects of the original question, you are suddenly starting to see things my way. Funny how that works.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

If he made a promise not to have sex with other women and he breaks that promise then there will be consequences between him and his wife.
If, however, he made that promise and his wife frees him from it then he can have sex with prostitutes…and any other consenting adult he wants to.

I don’t understand why this seems incomprehensible to you.
Do you have a lot of sexual hang ups?

hmmmmmm's avatar

Well, this took a bizarre turn. The original question was about as clear as it could get. It outlined the everything we needed to know. The complexity that has been added here adds nothing to the discussion.

If the desire by some people (or person) is to discuss prostitution and sex work in general, that is an interesting topic, but not related to the original question.

raum's avatar

I don’t have an issue with a woman offering sex in exchange for something she wants.

But I do have an issue with a woman offering sex for something that she needs.

The crux of the issue seems to be whether or not the woman is in control of her body and her decisions. When it escalates from want to need, it changes the dynamics of the exchange.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Yeah it really would. If she couldn’t make the rent she might get desperate enough to keep her kids off the street by having sex with her landlord, who she may find repulsive, in lieu of the rent.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 But I’m not avoiding where the argument is going. I’m telling you we’re already there. Sex has always been used as money. The question here is whether or not we object. In this case the consensus here appears to be “fine”.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Even Seawulf doesn’t object as long as someone’s marriage isn’t being compromised.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Whether or not someone’s marriage is compromised is up to those in the marriage.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Yes. But if neither the husband nor the wife cares then it isn’t compromised.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

~How do you process a refund? How do you make change? Do you file a tax receipt? Do players pay 20% income tax?

Dutchess_lll's avatar

If it’s the guy and sex is THAT bad he just quits in the middle of the job.
If it’s the woman and he doesn’t finish the job then she cuts him off.

Nope. No taxes.

Stache's avatar

I have nothing in common with a person who would sell their penis, vagina or any other hole in their body for goods. Do what you want but I have no respect for you. I feel no loss if you don’t want anything to do with me.

raum's avatar

@Stache While I can understand that you may not respect someone’s decision to have sex for money, your voice of words is peculiar.

I would think finding commonalities between people isn’t limited to what they do in the privacy of their own bedrooms among consenting adults?

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_lll I fully understand the concept of marital faithfulness. I wasn’t the one that asked if it was okay for a woman to screw someone for something she wanted and I wasn’t the one that said a woman can screw anyone she wants for any reason at all. And I’m not the one that made these statements without stipulating only single women. I’m not the one that tried ridiculing someone for daring to consider married folks in these questions. I’m not the one that has since backtracked to act like all those statements were really limited by all sorts of things. I’m also not the one that says prostitution is great…except for with married guys who are the majority of their customers. And I’m not the one that naively believes that a man would consult with his wife prior to going to a prostitute. I’m not the one that tries to stretch to the belief that if a couple has an open marriage that a woman would still be okay with spending money on a hooker.

Darth_Algar's avatar

No, you’re the one stretching the question beyond it’s parameters and, as usual in threads where you pop your head into, trying to derail the conversation into an argument.

And no one is making blanket statements saying it’s ok for married people to do this or this or this. We’re saying that such matters are up to the people involved to decide. I cannot tell someone else what is or is not acceptable for their marriage. I can only say what I would find acceptable for mine. Anyone else’s marriage is none of my business.

seawulf575's avatar

And maybe the question was extremely vague, but looking for one answer and one answer only. Anything else is considered an argument and unreasonable by you and the other on here. There were no parameters set, as I have already pointed out. Why is it that when someone thinks differently than liberals, they get so upset?

hmmmmmm's avatar

@Dutchess_lll: “For example, I know a young woman who owns her own home, and won’t hesitate to have sex in exchange for the guy doing remodeling projects around her house…most recently she got a new kitchen floor out of it. When the project is done, they both move on. She’s happy, he’s happy.”

@seawulf575: “But what if the guy is actually a 12-year-old boy, and the woman has aids. Or what if the guy is actually a Mormon with 6 wives, but he can’t get home to them because the woman locked him in the basement? Why isn’t this question clear enough? If you weren’t willing to talk about 12-year-old boys, deadly illnesses, and kidnapping, then why didn’t you specify?”

Dutchess_III's avatar

And did I mention the people involved weren’t hermaphrodites? And dogs and cats were not involved, either.

rebbel's avatar

In my contribution the floorer was.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It was a good one, too, @rebbel. :D

In such an exchange, if someone wants to put the negative lable of “whore” on the situation….who would you consider to be the biggest whore? Her or him?

rebbel's avatar

@Dutchess_III I meant that my floorer was a hermaphrodite.

Dutchess_III's avatar

OH! Is he married or gay?

stanleybmanly's avatar

If you just read the original question “..a young woman who owns her own home and won’t hesitate to have sex with a guy for doing remodeling projects around her house…” If you can read that, then conclude this is a married woman, you’re rolling down a different set of tracks than the standard gauge for the rest of us. Moreover, once you entertain the far fetched fantasy of the marriage, you face the problem of the remodeling of the house and a resident cuckhold minus the husband’s concurrence with the arrangement, or the truly preposterous idea that the husband might not notice. Let’s face it. There’s only 1 logical conclusion to be arrived at from the scenario as described, and all of us got the picture intended.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Is it OK ? Well, it’s been going on since our species has existed.

But so has murder, and other activities usually deemed illegal by society…

I would have no problem with it. But the female is simply contributing to the stereotypes, and negative perceptions that I hear females complaining about all the time.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Are you suggesting that what she is doing is illegal? That’s absurd.

What stereotype are you talking about?

stanleybmanly's avatar

There are probably statutes still on the books outlawing adultery, but when was the last time you heard of anyone prosecuted for the crime?

Dutchess_lll's avatar

It was mainly used in divorces I think.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Dutch. Our current society deems that exchanging currency for sexual acts, is illegal. Currency could be defined as anything of value, if used in a transaction. I fail to see how the analogy is “absurd.” Yes. It’s a form of prostitution…

Such “stereotypes?” You must be being willfully obtuse.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Yeah it’s a form of prostitution (like that’s a bad thing) and the guys are all for it. It works and it’s easy and everyone is happy.

What stereotypes do we females complain about all the time? I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about.

MrGrimm888's avatar

That females are sexual objects, no more. That their only value is in their vaginas… Stuff like that. Hard to view a female as an equal to men, when that is they’re contribution to society…

Dutchess_lll's avatar

“Their.” “Their contribution.”

You say that like sex is a bad thing. And she works full time in a management position. That is her main contribution to society.
The sex is just to get stuff done around her house. It wouldn’t work without a willing male now would it.
But you think it should be illegal. That makes me laugh.

longgone's avatar

^
“But you think it should be illegal.”

He didn’t say that.

To answer the main question, I do see potential problems with this scenario. Even in a loving relationship, I would think it’s a bad idea to offer sex in exchange for a project. I believe that physical contact should be limited to what feels good to both parties. I wouldn’t ask a child to kiss the aunt he sees once a year. I don’t pet my dog unless I’m sure he’s liking it. And I certainly don’t want hugs or kisses from my husband unless he’s feeling good about it.

Some things make us feel happy, even though they’re bad for us in the long run. I think it would be wrong to judge these woman’s choices. Maybe she’s making the perfect decision for herself. If I were friends with her and she asked me for my thoughts, I’d say it depends on how she’s feeling during intercourse. If she enjoys it, great. But if she doesn’t, I would honestly tell her that I think it’s unhealthy to allow others to touch you when it doesn’t feel good. Healthy boundaries are likely to be damaged when you don’t take care of them.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

@longgone, I have no idea whether she’s really into it or fakes it. But at 40+ with 3 kids (and 2 grandkids) she’s not a confused teenager.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Sex is a great thing. When used as a weapon, or bartering tool, it isn’t. IMO. It also devalues the people using it in such a manor.

“Confused teenagers” learn that sex is all they’re good for, from such women. Just use your genitals as a credit card, and don’t try to actually better yourself. Find a man, to get what you want.

I feel that such behavior is an obstacle to the women seeking respect for their gender. It certainly conflicts all women’s rights movements that I’ve ever heard of.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Any opinions about the men who enter into this agreement?

MrGrimm888's avatar

That isn’t the question the op asked, but I’ll reply anyway. I suppose, by law, they are the “tricks.” But only if they agree with the arrangement. Otherwise, the women are soliciting.
The behavior only encourages men to approach women with such arrangements (which most women find highly offensive.) I see no benefits to modern women, whom wish to be perceived as more than a sex object…

Dutchess_III's avatar

You switched it back to the women. Focus now.
Should the men be ashamed that they are allowing themselves to be used to get new flooring in her house?

MrGrimm888's avatar

I didn’t “switch” anything. The op’s question asks directly about women…The details omit men as well. Was the q just flame bait, to man bash?

“Ashamed?” Do I think they “should” be? I think it would vary by situation. Same with the female. For example, I personally would probably exchange sex (from myself) acts for money. Depending on the “trick,” and depending on the payment. I would factor in circumstances as well. Sex for a need, like food, would be judged differently than say sex for new flooring(ethically.) But by my definition of “prostitution,” both parties would have committed that interaction/crime.

Should a man be ashamed if he exchanged money/currency, for sex? I guess so. But they probably feel about the same as the woman does. Both are aware of the details of the interaction, and have clearly already justified it before going through with the arrangement. So. I don’t see why they would change their minds, or behavior later. Men who pay for sex, aren’t viewed in a great light either, by society.

I might chose the word “regret,” over “shame.” A man may regret whatever he lost in exchange. A woman may regret whom she performed the acts on…

My morals are different from others though.

Dutch seems to be omitting the fact that things like “prostitution” also occur between women, and other women.
Think of pretty girls committing sex acts for protection in prison. And don’t say that’s anomalous. It isn’t… Should the female providing protection in exchange for sex acts be “ashamed?”

There are many variables.

A drug might be a “need,” for an addict. One could argue that as the equivalent of food to some.

Lot’s of variables.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I am the OP. This is a discussion in social, so having a discussion that meanders, like it does in real live, is perfectly fine.

I don’t where you think two adult, consenting people having sex under what ever circumstances they wish should be some sort of crime!

I don’t think anyone should be ashamed, unless they’re forcing people to do things they don’t want to do.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III What does being confused or young have to do with it? I don’t feel you were really addressing my point.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I thought you were suggesting that she didn’t fully inderstand what she is doing. My point was that she does. She is an adult. Sex isn’t a mystery to her and if that’s what she wants to do, even with no love involved, then it’s her decision. If she simply views it as a commodity who can say it’s wrong? The guys aren’t complaining.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_lll Not at all. That’s what you got from my post? I’m confused, I thought I was being pretty clear.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Well what I heard was that you suggested that I should advise her not to have sex if she was uncomfortable with it or didn’t really want to. If that isn’t what you meant I apologize.

seawulf575's avatar

I think if I was working a service industry (home remodeling, exterminator, cable guy, etc), I would not accept an offer like that from a woman. Too much chance in this day and age that you would be accused of raping her later. You would put yourself into a very untenable situation.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Dutch. I think prostitution should be legal. If that’s the point you’re trying to make, I agree with you.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

@seawulf…the guys in question are not professional remodelers. They’re just guys who know how to use a saw and a hammer.
I could see that being a problem if you worked in the trade, and were on the clock, unless you owned the business.

MrGrimm888's avatar

ANY consentual, quick/one night stands, are risky for the man. Unless they drew up a contract about consent, and videotaped the act, the female can always change the story later. Then it’s one person’s word against another’s, and only the people involved in the sexual act, know what really happened.
One is telling the truth.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

@MrGrimm888 if you think prostitution should be legal then there is really not much more to discuss.
However, from a legal stand point it would be hard to prove that that is what she’s doing. The defense would be too easy. It’s not like they have a contract.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

These aren’t one night stands. It a pseudo relationship.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Whatever you want to call it. It’s not a smart play by the “trick.” If it’s a man… Now we’re getting further off the rails.

I suppose that there is risk involved in all sexual acts,for all partaking….

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_lll got it….more limitations on the question that you really didn’t put in there. I think the next time I chime in on one of your questions, the first thing I post will be a request for you to clarify the question and set the parameters. Trying to discuss one of your questions is idiotic…you keep adding to or changing the idea. I think you just wanted to either argue or to hear one answer. If that’s all you want, why ask the question in the first place? Your mind is made up.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Would it be any different if they had met at a bar and propositioned her, she agreed and they went back to her house? Happens allll the time. Not many people talk about the “dangers” for men…

Pandora's avatar

It really depends if she sees it as demoralizing. If having sex with these men makes her feel less of a person, then it would be wrong. If she feels empowered by using her sex and actually enjoys sleeping with these men, then I don’t see what would be the problem. I would find it demoralizing and wrong because I don’t see sex as just a physical act. But I understand there are people in this world who don’t think of it as a personal act.

stanleybmanly's avatar

We don’t really know enough to assess what the relationship is all about. I mean after the floors are finished does she move on to a willing plumber or electrician? Or is this an exclusive relationship with one man? In any event, the most common conversation a group of men will have about women is is around how hard the girls will make them “work for it”.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

Flooding the market with sex for services would devalue the act. It would no longer be special. Eventually sex for stuff would be around the price of a coffee or less.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@stanleybmanly all I know of at this point is that she’s had at least two men for this purpose. One was for the floor, the other was getting the exterior of the house painted. I don’t know if there are more.

@RedDeerGuy1 Men would still take them up on the offers. It’s not like they’d just quit getting horny because there is so much sex out there (and there IS so much sex out there, any way.)

I don’t think she finds it any more demoralizing than most men find having sex with people they don’t particularly care for (like prostitutes) to be demoralizing @Pandora.

I wouldn’t like myself either if I did that because I was raised to believe that, for women, sex is supposed to be some all powerful, magical, sacred shit. But I can also easily see how it’s really not.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@RedDeerGuy1

There is nothing inherently valuable or special about sex in itself.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I don’t know about that. Clearly, as this very case illustrates, there are an inordinate number of otherwise sensible men who lose all semblance of rationality when it comes to sex. The question here is about the moral justification for a woman prepared to profit from the fact. I say as with any other habit, hobby, vice, etc, so what? If a man is willing to trade a week’s work for what he could pay for with a few hours’ wages to some other woman, it is not THIS woman’s fault that he is a poor businessman. Then again, who am I to judge whether or not she is well worth it?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Lots of women a prepared to profit from it, in hundreds of different ways.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^You said it. Not me….

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yes. I said it. And…..? Lots of women trade it up, whether they realize it or not. In the past, for example, it was used in order to land a husband.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Erin Brockovitch came to mind: :D
“What makes you think you can just walk in there and get what you want?”
“They’re called boobs, Ed.”

stanleybmanly's avatar

And they work on us men, and everybody knows it. And it is BECAUSE they are so devastating that those deploying them must be relegated to shame and derision for their utilization. It’s as if women were reverting to poison gas in the war between the sexes.

gorillapaws's avatar

@stanleybmanly ” And it is BECAUSE they are so devastating that those deploying them must be relegated to shame and derision for their utilization.”

Give me a break…

I think that’s probably the worst argument you’ve ever put forward on this site.

stanleybmanly's avatar

You don’t believe that women are accused of of contemptible morals for working their wiles on men? When was the last time you can recall the occupation of prostitute listed as a job reference? Is it “superior intelligence” that leaps to your mind when you turn a corner and are confronted by a beautiful “rack”?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@stanleybmanly I thought you were being sarcastic. Surely you don’t mean that women are actually responsible for men’s lust! As in we should all wear burkas?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Good for Canada!

stanleybmanly's avatar

Responsible? I believe that either women are designed to attract men or men are wired to be attracted to women. And it doesn matter which you prefer to regard as the rule. The burka is proof positive as to who is to be held responsible. As for women being drawn to men? no one even bothers with the discussion.

seawulf575's avatar

Let’s look at the question from another angle. Is it okay for a woman to objectify herself? If so, is it wrong for a man to objectify women?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@stanleybmanly You’re freaking me out! I keep thinking you have GOT to be kidding! How is the burka proof positive as to who is responsible?

@seawulf575 If a woman objectives herself then of course it’s OK for men to objectify her….her, as in that one particular woman.
Interestingly enough, though, you sentence reads “If is’s okay for a woman (singular) to objective herself, is it OK for a man to objectify women (plural.)” In that case the answer is, “Of course not.”

stanleybmanly's avatar

It’s not who IS responsible, but who is CONSIDERED responsible. It is only the women who must cover everything. The onus falls on the wanton temptress to clean things up. The lust driven idiot gets a pass.

seawulf575's avatar

Another interesting side thought on this. What if the woman got pregnant from this exchange of sex for services? Would the man be responsible for the child? Yet one more reason to not think with your dick.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh good @stanleybmanly. You really had me worried!

Of course he is responsible for the child @seawulf575.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

Who decides who pays? Is it who is more desperate? What if the guy is smoking hot? Does he charge the woman? What happens if the worker is the same sex? Can a guy do the same thing for female worker?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Whatever two people decide is between them. In the scenario above it’s simple physical labor in exchange for him receiving orgasms in return. He doesn’t have to pay money, and he doesn’t have to play games. He just gets sex / orgasms as much as he wants for as long as he’s there.

I just don’t think a man would be as successful in trying to get a woman to do something for him and in return he’ll have sex with her! Any woman would just laugh. Well, I sure would, anyway.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Nobody is going to argue that it’s a good idea to think with your dick or take up a heroin habit. This isn’t about good sense or even common sense. We’re talking about fundamental human drives which defy common sense. There is a longstanding war over which gender is to bear responsibility for the consequences and worse, which gender is assigned the duty of preventing the irrational. The world’s major religions set the pace for the society at large where a man can devote his life to getting laid without once being referred to as a slut, and viagra is accessible as bubblegum while the morning after pill remains tied up in the courts.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s a wild double standard, isn’t is @stanleybmanly. And, on top of all that the churches make it a sin!

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther