Social Question

Demosthenes's avatar

Do you think either Democrats or Republicans care about fixing immigration issues?

Asked by Demosthenes (6879points) 3 weeks ago

Or is it just a wedge issue that they win votes on?

I’m thinking of this in light of Trump’s announcement that huge numbers of illegals are going to be deported soon.

Going by how long this has been a problem, how there’s been no resolution on DACA despite how long ago it was that the DREAM act was put into effect.

But the more important question is: what is the solution to the issue of illegal immigration into the United States?

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24 Answers

Dutchess_III's avatar

I can’t speak for all Dems, but I care. I care about the human beings on the other side of that river, too. I want to see someone come up with a plan so that people can flee the violence in their country and be greeted warmly, with a save place to lay their head, a safe place for their family, and have food to eat while the legalities of their entry are processed.
I know. I’m just a bleeding heart liberal.
Some of them will be turned away, and I’m fine with that.
But what we’re doing now is the most inhumane thing I have ever heard of.

Yellowdog's avatar

Hey, @Dutchess_III I’m a white guy living in a predominately black city.

The conflict here is, 90% of the shooting VICTIMS in my 80% African American city are African Americans,
There have been 17 shootings in the last 17 hours. But I, too, have been shot twice in two separate robberies. There are places I cannot go because I am white. A white person just out at night is just asking for it. Well, that was the reasoning of the attorney of the last person who shot me. Memphis, Chicago, LA, Detroit—I am a racial minority in an extremely violent city, with very little chance of improving my situation in my disabled condition,

I don’t have any alternative countries to migrate to, I cannot even stay in Canada for over six months. What border can I cross?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Yellowdog WTH are you talking about? If you don’t like where you’re living, move. Move to a different city, different state, whatever. Not sure what your unhappiness with the black population in your town has to do with immigration though.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Legally @Yellowdog you have a much better chance at immigrating to a different country than 90% of those people that are trying to get into the usa.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also @Yellowdog if things are so great for you under Trump then why don’t you move to a city with less violent crime?
Or even parts of the city you live in now with less violent crime?
If things under Trump are so great?
I understand you have physical disabilities from being hurt in a couple of robberies, but with things so great and you say you have university education you should be able to get a great paying job that doesn’t require a lot of physical activity, that is if things are so great under Trump.
Why would you even want to leave the states with your orange hair god at the wheel?
I can totally understand wanting to move to a less violent area, so why don’t you?

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SaganRitual's avatar

Yes, I imagine that there are a few people in our halls of power who actually do have a beating heart. So, yes, some of them really care. At the same time, they can only do so much with the system we have. And perhaps speaking out would cost them some political collateral that they could use somewhere else, in an area where they can actually make a difference. Pretty freaking sad, typing it all out like that.

Here’s the solution.

First, let’s all just admit that our ancestors were “illegals” too. They had no right whatsoever to come here and almost exterminate the people who already lived here. I’m not saying we need to feel guilty, I’m just saying, maybe it would be good to take a moment and be grateful to the universe (or God, or whatever) that these refugees are no more than rapists and drug runners—I believe that is the worst of what President Trump has reported so far; I’m open to correction. At least they’re not coming with the appearance of good will and handing out disease-infested blankets.

Second, let’s get some people who actually know something to figure out how much it would cost per refugee allowed in, accounting for the economic boost that would result—they have to buy food just like everyone else—and the increase in tax revenues. Experts in relevant fields, not politicians (and not me). Experts that people on both sides trust, experts who’ll vouch to their own side for each other. I predict that these Mexican rapists and drug runners could be transformed into cash cows. Investors could make a lot of money on all the new construction—I’m thinking cities growing upward rather than outward.

Jobs? The interstate highway system. The street out in front of my house. Bridges. Get some of those strange people who actually know something to identify other infrastructure that needs to be fixed. We need more public school teachers, we need more research institutions, there are jobs waiting for us all over the place.

Funds? First, the extra taxes. Then, downsize the military. Contrary to popular belief, it is almost never necessary to blow up the entire world more than once. If not downsize, then at the very least, stop buying and building new war machinery. The savings would pay for a lot of highway. Once the infrastructure work starts to taper off into maintenance mode, form a Department of Peace, like the military, but strictly for humanitarian purposes. They go out into the world and build houses and hospitals and schools everywhere.

People begin to love the US, rather than fear it. Angry Muslims everywhere begin going out into the world and building houses and hospitals too, not willing to be outdone in humanitarian efforts by The Great Satan.

Twenty years later, a generation of kids raised in an environment where people worldwide are trying to outdo each other in doing good for each other…

Meh, who am I kidding. * sigh *

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Also if you are disabled YD, there are programs available for you as a citizen that immigrants don’t get. So start looking around for help getting out of your situation.

mazingerz88's avatar

Guess we’re talking about politicians not Democratic voters or Republican voters. I think in 2013 the Dems agreed for border fencing in exchange for giving illegals a path to citizenship. Didn’t happen because Republicans didn’t play along. For whatever exact reason who knows?

Seems politicians would do anything to stay in office fearful of not being re-elected even if they knew what the right thing to do is to move the country forward. And then there’s the lobbyists backed up by big money with their own agendas. Big business with their own plans.

Without decent, well-meaning and courageous politicians in the WH, HoR and Senate there would be no end to this debacle. Americans of all colors, gender and religious persuasion are better than this. If only they would not succumb to desperation like voting for example——a vain, cruel, devoid of humanity egomaniac reality TV show host to power. Anybody could be President in America true, but—- COME…ON! Lol

elbanditoroso's avatar

Yes and no.

I think that the Republicans tend to look at immigration issues very legalistically. “This is the law and that’s all there is to it”. Republicans don’t appear to care much about the human lives that are affected – just that the law, the way that they want it to be – is followed.

Democrats, generally, are the more human-centric, caring about the people and their families, and not worrying so much about the legal aspects of things. After all these are people, not widgets.

Somewhere in the middle there is a solution. But at least right now, each side is using its arguments for political purposes. So there’s no immediate solution.

Read Tom Friedman’s column in the NY Times today. It discusses how not to reach any solution.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I am seeing “Bullies.” Bullies suck. And that is what the Republican party has become. A party of bullies. They should be ashamed.

YARNLADY's avatar

Caring about immigration and being able to do anything about it are two different things. Yes, I think both D and R care, but neither has the foggiest idea what to do about it.

I am in favor of open borders

MrGrimm888's avatar

Both parties care. Both parties have different motivations, for caring. Both parties have different strategies for fixing immigration issues…

stanleybmanly's avatar

Sure. Both sides care a great deal! The question is WHICH aspect does either side care about MOST? One side says “throw em out, keep em out”, the other “but they’re human beings only seeking EXACTLY the same things as ourselves.” As I’ve said before, I find it problematic to exclude people acting EXACTLY as I would were I in their shoes. The lucky accident of having been born here to literate and comfortable solidly middle class parents crosses my mind constantly lately when I consider the plight of these poor people as well as the current troubles of the place they so desperately seek to inhabit. One thing is certain. The pressure of people from 3rd world places seeking a better life is only going to intensify. And the resistance to such pressure must by necessity ONLY stiffen. This is particularly true in the present environment where the prevailing mood is best described as “the struggle to keep up”. The reality is that we are not going to deter these people when our concentration camps are a comparative paradise next to life at home. Trump’s latest tactic of forcing Mexico to do our “dirty work” is the first piece of innovation from the fool that I would describe as clever. The sad truth is that this land of immigrants IS going to ratchet down the influx of immigrants. The fact that Obama quietly deported twice the level of people as Trump demonstrates the trend once competent government with the resulting efficiencies is realized. Considering Trump, I suppose we are lucky in that his upper levels of bureaucracy amount to a train wreck. It was the competence of Obama’s administrators that led to his considerable efficiency at removing aliens, and if ever competence is restored at the top, a talented ruthless individual need merely implement the template of the Germans in the 40s minus the corpses. Once you develop the stomach to get around the truly sickening aspects of that history, the logistical achievement of the thing is mind boggling. But enough of this. I’m already depressed enough. Time for bed.

KNOWITALL's avatar

(without reading the above)

I think both parties care but for different reasons.

Obama promised reform and chose to pursue healthcare instead. Why, I don’t know.

To me, Trump is simply trying to stem the tide until the 2020 election, and if he wins, hopefully he’ll take on immigration reform.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@SaganRitual I think you have it backward, and maybe that’s a big part of the problem. ”...our ancestors were “illegals” too. They had no right whatsoever to come here” Maybe that’s the problem. Maybe every human has the “right” to be anywhere on this planet they want to be, just like any other animal. However, I understand the need for some control due to the sheer number of humans on this planet.
Maybe it would help if we stop thinking “They have no right….” Yes, they do.

SaganRitual's avatar

@Dutchess_III It’s tricky; I don’t like the concept of “rights” in general. But I have to use the language of my reader, or they won’t understand me. I could have spelled it out, something like, they had no more right to come here than the refugees from Guatemala. But I have my goals as a writer; that would have taken the punch out of what I was saying.

In any case, I think we are aligned on the principle, we just state it differently. I say there’s no such thing as “rights”, and you say everyone has the same rights. The bottom line is that we’re all equals. Or so it seems to me. Let me know if I’ve misunderstood you. Peace

Dutchess_III's avatar

I know what you’re saying @SaganRitual. But as a writer maybe you could start a movement to change people’s perceptions of “rights.”
Yes, we’re on the same page. Kind of like a simple math problem, where you can change the order of the numbers and still get the same answer.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Well. Many animals are territorial. That us a sort of “right,” of nature. It is when the animal has more territory, or resources, that it could ever use, that it becomes less than territorial, and more about conquest.
I do not feel that conquest, is a normal, or natural thing…

Dutchess_III's avatar

But it is, at least among species as violent as ours @MrGrimm888. You can see it when someone refuses to make way so someone can move into their lane. It’s like, “NO YOU AIN’T!!” Rick is HORRIBLE about that.

MrGrimm888's avatar

No. That’s just being a jerk (with all due respect to Rick.)
.We have that problem a LOT here, in Charleston. Usually, it’s a small man, in a big truck. They just don’t want anyone in front of them, whether they are going to go slower than the person trying to get ahead or not.

That’s different, to me, than territory…

Dutchess_III's avatar

No, it’s exactly the same thing as “territory,” @MrGrimm888. “This is MINE and you can’t have it.”

stanleybmanly's avatar

I know I have a tendency to avoid having things in front of me that I cannot see over or around. Single lane roads require patience, but getting from behind big trucks, buses, etc. is by now reflexive.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Same here. However, there are times to just back off by a long ways so you can see over and around. That’s another reflex some people seem to have, and that is getting right up behind the driver in front of them, even with no intention of passing.

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