What if the police handcuffed everyone up front?

@Ltryptophan: “It’s just a thought, and possibly a stupid one.”

Yes, it is.

It doesn’t solve anything, and just exacerbates the problem significantly.

Utterly unconstitutional.

Every encounter would be a fight.

@Ltryptophan – this is NOT a good idea. Back to the drawing board.

Lawsuit !

If I was cuffed I would have excitable delirium

No.

You are correct. It is a stupid idea.

I was thinking yesterday how bad being handcuffed would be for me while I’m recovering from a shoulder injury. Putting one of my hands behind my back right now is excruciating. To put it mildly, police aren’t known for being sensitive to anyone’s current physical condition when they handcuff them.

Add to that the trauma of little kids watching the adults in their lives being “subdued” in such a manner sounds like child abuse to me!

I believe that if they’re going to cuff you, “take you into custody” then they have to read you your Miranda Rights.

@Ltryptophan I thought that was standard procedure?

You are cuffed and told you are ‘detained’. If everything checks out you are un-cuffed and free to go about your business. Any time I’ve been stopped, twice for speeding in my younger years, I wasn’t cuffed as it wasn’t a big deal and my insurance and car were perfectly legal, etc…

I mean, I watch a lot of Cops and Live PD, that’s what they do on almost any stop with more than one person or a person being sketchy. Isn’t that securing the scene?

@KNOWITALL: I’ve been pulled over and given tickets during my lifetime, and never handcuffed by the officer.

@KNOWITALL @jca2 I have never been in handcuffs by a police officer. I would freak out if they put me in them.
If the police handcuffed me in the front it would be less scary.

They have to have some reason to stop you and cuff you. They can’t do it willy-nilly.

@jca2 Sure, they don’t do it as often with one non-threatening person even on tv.

Plus some ladies like the handcuffs haha. Just a little joke.

@RedDeer Why would it freak you out? Just being restrained?

First off. Being cuffed, doesn’t mean that you are under arrest.
The officer, is probably just trying to control the “situation.”

Hypothetically. You are pulled over, because your vehicle fits the description of a vehicle, that was recently involved in a crime.
An officer, may cuff you, until you are determined not to be a suspect, in whatever crime.

It happens, all of the time.

The biggest problem is, of course, people don’t want to be cuffed. So. It can lead an otherwise innocent person, to become unruly…

It also occurs, when there is only one officer, and multiple people in question.

The idea of making it mandatory, is not wise…

I find, as mentioned above, it can exacerbate, a situation.

@KNOWITALL I would think that I would go to jail for a long time for something that I didn’t do. I’ve been assaulted by people in the past. I would not be able to defend myself in cuffs. Or I would totally relax seeing that their is nothing to do.

@RedDeer All I know is not letting them cuff you is resisting and they can use force. Like Floyd.
Never resist or run, just zen out and yessir nossir. I’ve watched Canadian cops, too, they don’t play either.

@MrGrimm888 I was hoping you’d eventually chime in. Why do they keep shooting runners in the back? Whats procedure on that in your experience?

I understand the spirit of the question and I don’t think it’s a dumb idea.

@RedDeerGuy1 “If the police handcuffed me in the front it would be less scary.”

The issue there is that handcuffing someone from the front largely negates the purpose of handcuffs to begin with. A person with their hands bound from the front still has a great range of movement for their arms. Can still attack, can still grab for a weapon, etc.

They handcuff from the back.

One of the reasons for the protests against police brutality is that the brutality often occurs WHILE African Americans are handcuffed. Mr. Floyed died in handcuffs. African Americans who are incapacitated, running away, driving off are beaten, shot, and/or killed.

I understand you’re thinking. You want to take the bias out of it. By having some rule the officers would not be the ones deciding. In my town the police will always respond if they are called. (We have a very low crime rate.). If there is a domestic issue someone will be arrested. Simple. Some group noticed that African Americans were arrested at a higher rate than white. The police chief stated the rules, pulled out statistics and showed there was no bias. There simply were more calls involving African Americans and many of them not residents of the town. That put the issue to bed.
Also, the police started to broadcast their dispatcher scanner publicly so anyone interested can listen to the calls while at the library or in their parking lot. It was really obvious there was no bias.
That said, mandatory handcuffing seems like too much. I’ve been pulled over for speeding and honestly answered the usual second question they in the affirmative. “Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?” I answered honestly, told where it was and asked if he wanted me to do anything about it. He said “No. You were just speeding. Just leave it ” I didn’t have to do anything different. I just got a ticket for speeding. Imagine how that could have gone down if I had to exit the car, and be handcuffed. Yikes.

@KNOWITALL . Lethal force, is only something that can be justified/authorized, by an officer feeling that their own life, or the lives of others, are in imminent danger…

However. It’s a tough to prosecute, an officer, if they say that they felt that way, in their statement. Especially if the suspect, has not been totally searched, and decided to be free of a weapon.
Generally, a subject is frisked, after being cuffed.
If the subject is not searched, and they run off, before being cuffed, the law will typically give the benefit of the doubt, to the LEO. A subject that runs, possibly is doing so, to try to throw away contraband i.e. an unregistered firearm.
The subject may be trying to get distance, to turn, and use the hypothetical firearm, on the officer, or others…
Generally speaking, shooting a fleeing subject, is not a good defense. But. Can hold up, in court, as justified.

As as far as a cuffed subject, it’s harder to defend lethal action, by an officer. But. There are many variables. A cuffed subject, can still pose a danger. Think of a large male (cuffed,) versus a much smaller LEO…

I’m a big guy. I’m 6’5, and have been as big as 315 lbs. I could, in theory, still smash a 180 lb officer against a car, and severely damage them. Even if cuffed…
I can think of dozens of situations, where a average sized man, after being cuffed, took 3–6 officers, to gain control of them. My protocol, was to take any resistant person, to the ground.
Keep in mind that the subject may be on drugs, that give them a LOT of fight. A 23 year old man, who has been on coke, for 3 days, is like a crazed animal…

Now. Having said that. Once a subject is subdued, the mission becomes, keep them under control, without killing them…
And try, to get them into the back of a squad car. Even then, they will smash their head on the glass, and kick… If they persist in being violent, we place them, in “the chair,” at the jail.
It’s basically a chair, with straps, and it immobilizes them. Until they calm down. They are placed in cold rooms. The cold, will sap their strength, and usually calm them down. After being placed in the chair, a medical technician, will assess the subject, and even draw blood, to see how to continue.
Typically, “spit masks,” are placed, on the subject, to prevent biting, and spitting.

Moving forward. If a subject is subdued, or cooperative, they will be put in an isolated cell, until they are deemed fit, to go through the process.

Some of the scenes, I see, are a gross overuse, of officer induced violence. Floyd, being a sad example. Once a subject is subdued/compliant, it is time to ease up, and treat the subject accordingly…

I can attest, that some subjects, will lull officers, into thinking that they are compliant, only to erupt into more violent behavior.
But. When someone complains, about the inability to breathe, or that they are in medical distress, you HAVE TO EASE UP…

IMO. If you can’t understand that, you shouldn’t be a LEO. Period….

There are many scenarios, in which there is no “right” course, of action.

A coworker, of mine, killed a man, whilst working at a strip club.
The subject entered the establishment, intoxicated. He was removed.
A bit later, he entered in a crowd, and wasn’t noticed.
He promptly licked, a female bartender, and was thrown out.
A while later, he was refused entry. He “charged the door.”
One of our officers, pushed him backwards.
He landed, on the back of his head, and died…
The officer, who pushed him, was found guilty of manslaughter.
That officer, was fired, and spent 3 years in prison…

Law enforcement, is a tough job.
Not all, are out to kill…

It’s a tough job. Often, it’s a thankless job. As I said, there isn’t always a “right” decision.

I’m not condoning, all of their actions. There are certainly bad apples. But. Sometimes, there are unintended consequences…

It’s a mess….

@MrGrimm Exactly what my favorite Sargeant told me. Thanks.

First they would not have enough handcuffs for a crowd to begin with.

It would violate everyone’s rights and lawsuits would be rampant.

Control in ones life is paramount and to be handcuffed takes away that control leading to anxiety in other situations where control is lost over a situation.

My bet it that once one experiences getting handcuffed that they are left with emotional scars and memories for life.

It is more than “just” a moment, it imprints on ones mind for life.

No wonder some run from the cops.

Here’s this idea in action:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/heoglu/officers_didnt_bother_to_know_who_or_why_they/

^There are multiple issues, with the video supplied.

The subject, fails to initially comply, with the officer’s request for ID. That is not an offense, worthy of arrest. However, it is probable cause, to temporarily detain the individual.
Unfortunately, or however you want to put it, you must comply with certain requests, by a LEO.

The person of interest, can easily avoid further problems, by being cooperative. It is reasonable to assume that the person has something to hide. Like concealed contraband, or a warrant for their arrest, by revealing their identity…

The person of interest, also quickly digs, into his pocket. Something that the officers, should be wary of. When I am speaking with a person of interest, I ask that they keep their hands, in plain sight, and move slowly, if asked to produce something from their person. Many people, put their hands, in their pockets, because they are nervous. I want their hands open, and away from their body. So. Poor training, from the officers…

Judging by the subject’s behavior, I personally, would not have taken him to the ground over the behavior.

According to an offscreen voice, the man was pointed out, by a bystander, as the person displaying suspicious behavior. That adds validity, to why this man was a person of interest. While also adding validity, to the officers, wanting to ensure that he wasn’t the subject in question. Unfortunately, the “suspicious activity” mentioned, is not elaborated on. Which would help me understand the officers’ mindset…

I also can’t see, if the officers, have guns drawn.

Ultimately, we see the man taken down, and cuffed.

Moving forward. I have been cuffed, at least six times, during routine traffic stops. I’m a big guy, and I have a certain appearance.
When I am pulled over, or stopped in the street, I cooperate fully. I keep my hands, on the steering wheel, until told otherwise. If I am asked to provide ID, I tell the officer, what I am going to do, and do it slowly. I often have a firearm, and make them aware of it immediately. They take my pistol, and cuff me. Then, place me, in the back of a squad car.
I display no resistance, and then they search me, or my vehicle. It’s their job.

I got pulled on the way to work once, and was cuffed, and put in the back of the squad car. They tossed my truck, for 35 minutes.
Turns out, I had an old whiskey bottle, in my canoe supplies. I hadn’t remembered that it was there.
I hadn’t been drinking. But. It was an open container.
Because of my cooperation, and openness, about it, the officers asked me to dump it out. Which I did…
The officers (there ended up being 5, on sight,) let me go, with no charges. I was free, to go…

My point is that, if you are cooperative, you typically have nothing to worry about…

I can’t say that I liked being cuffed. But. It didn’t traumatize me. And nothing came out bad, except that I was late for work…

I’m not naive. I understand that it’s different, for everyone. But. Full cooperation, goes a long way, in determining what an outcome will be, when dealing with the authorities…

@MrGrimm Yeah non-compliance is how you die or catch resisting charges.

^Yeah. It’s no fun, dealing with a LEO. But. Usually, the officer, has the law on their side.

One of the biggest problems, is training. Officers, are trained to protect their own lives, over anything else. Almost like a military type, of training.

In training, an officer, is supposed to have their hand, on the but of their firearm. At ALL times. Not only that, but if they have to pull and fire, they are to fire for effect. Typically, that means that you put as many rounds, as possible, in a target.
That’s why subjects, are typically hit multiple times. Or, that many rounds, are used. The person of interest, in the video, could have been shot many times, for quickly digging into his pocket.

The officers, in the video, should have instructed the man, to slowly remove his ID.
Not to mention, the officers, shouldn’t be trained to use maximum force, when unnecessary.

Their role, is not that of judge, jury, and executioner.

Training, is in need of overhaul.

@MrGrimm888 Are people in the US required to carry ID around with them? What if you tell the officer you can’t comply because you have no ID on you? And does “detain” include handcuffing, and does handcuffing include the right to tackle?

I realize you’re trying to provide information here, but I have to say, the part about:

“The person of interest, in the video, could have been shot many times, for quickly digging into his pocket.”

Has me thinking that really has to change. It seems to me that when officer doctrine is causing innocent unarmed people into situations where they could have been shot many times by police, there are fundamental problems with the doctrine.

^Not all people, carry/possess an ID… But. If asked, by a LEO, to provide their name, they are supposed to.

And I agree, with you. There are fundamental problems, with many law enforcement doctrines…

@Zaku

There is no law in the United States requiring you to possess or carry identification. But if asked by law enforcement to identify yourself you’re supposed to (at least in some jurisdictions) to state your name.

(For some reason they never believe me when I state my name – Mihoff, Jack.)