Was there a reason for Democrats to push so hard for mail-in ballots?

CO V I D – 1 9 !!

It was a safety issue, you are aware there is a world wide pandemic that is killing people ,who don’t social distance or wear masks,the US is the worst country in the world for infections and deaths.
You don’t think standing in line close together might be UNSAFE during this pandemic, voting by mail is a safe way for people to vote.
Trump knew the democrats would be mostly mail in voting that’s why he claimed they were fraudulent ,you do know some of your states have been using mail in voting for years and never had an issue before Trump,

To fortify TW’s reply, both the Democrats and the media recognize that a pandemic is raging out of control to the tune of 100,000 new infections daily. Conservatives apparently refuse to notice , which is why the White House itself is now reduced to a vector point for guaranteed infection. And if you want to fix an election, you don’t advocate mail in ballots. Massive fraud is required, meaning no chance of it being undetected anywhere in the chain other than concentration points.

COVID19

We didn’t know how prevalent covid will be in a community at election time so better to plan ahead and have a mechanism in place for people to vote without having to wait in a line, touch things other people have touched, and be breathing in other people’s air.

Plus, more people have convenient access to vote with mail-in. They don’t have to worry about transportation to a poll or taking off from work.

I know more than one person who voted by mail for the first time, and now want to do it ongoing.

I saw an interview with an official in Oregon a while back and they said it saves the state a lot of money. I don’t remember the specifics. OR is 100% mail-in, so it might not apply to states doing so much in-person and mail-in.

Something about a pandemic…

Given the FACT, that there is NO evidence that such voting leads to mass fraud. Why are Republicans, SO against it?.......

@MrGrimm888 yours is of course a rhetorical question. EVERYBODY knows why Republicans are against it. As the current election proves (once again) massive turnout favors the Democrats.

Because Democrats wanted to steal the election from Republicans. It was a huge conspiracy funded by George Soros and the Illuminati.

^^ And Q of QAnon had enough fun and returned to the“Q” Continuum!~~

Colorado, Utah, Oregon, Hawaii and Washington all vote entirely by mail. That doesn’t make their votes less valid than other states. There is no reason why people should have to stand in long lines, some hours long, when there is a pandemic.

Conversely, why would Republicans be so resistant to people voting by mail? Maybe because it makes it easy to vote, for someone who may be sick, disabled, elderly, need a ride to the polls, have trouble getting childcare so they can go to the polls, have a hard time getting off work, or any other number of issues that mail-in voting rectifies.

@crazyguy.“3 It is easier for dead people… to vote by-mail rather than in-person.”

I tend to agree with you on this one.

@MrGrimm888….it was a set up to set up suspicions in people’s minds about the legitimacy of mail in ballots.
And whadda ya know. There is a Republican-led storm raging over just that now.

There is a global plague going around, and you are currently in your 3rd wave.

Republicans won a lot of elections even with the increased mail-in voting.

All that happened this time is people became more aware of mail-in voting. It’s been going on in fairly large numbers in many states. Then add in alt-right conspiracy theorists messaging that it’s a bad thing and you have what we have today.

The state most worried about socialism like no other, Florida, is just fine with mail-in voting. Marco Rubio, told the president to shut the hell up about mail-in so Trump said it’s all bad except in Florida. Lol. People actually bought into that. Arguing Democrats don’t know the difference between absentee and mail-in. Um ok sure. Florida has no excuse mail-in. Florida probably has more dead people on the voter rolls than any other state. People come here as their final place before dying. Think about it.

Trump said in an interview with Maria Barteloma a few months ago that there are plenty of places that have high mail-in and the Republicans win.

There is a part of me that really believes Trump just says what people want to hear, because he knows it works for votes. Once in a while you see a glimmer of what he really knows to be true, and it’s often reasonable. Too bad he’s not motivated by reason.

One of my husband’s ex-coworkers died from covid yesterday. He voted in person during early voting. He might have been contagious, or he might have caught it there. Supposedly, the polls in TN did take a lot of solid precautions at the polling locations. I don’t know how careful he was being in general, but I feel pretty sure there are lots of people in his area who think it’s all a hoax. The guy retired this past April.

And speaking of “fraud”, despite the drumpf team pushing that narrative in public,
they somehow are not arguing that in court, instead they are arguing technicalities:
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/lawyers-litigating-for-trump-suddenly-remember-their-licenses-are-on-the-line-if-they-lie-to-a-judge/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha7iWECm_8E

presumably because the lawyers are not willing to lie in court and put their carreers on the line for this nonsense.

“THE COURT: In your petition, which is right before me — and I read it several times — you don’t claim that any electors or the Board of the County were guilty of fraud, correct? That’s correct?”

“MR. GOLDSTEIN: Your Honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step. And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the DNC or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith. The DNC is coming with good faith. We’re all just trying to get an election done. We think these were a mistake, but we think they are a fatal mistake, and these ballots ought not be counted.”

“THE COURT: I understand. I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?”

“MR. GOLDSTEIN: To my knowledge at present, no.”

“THE COURT: Are you claiming that there or improper influence upon the elector to these 592 ballots?”

“MR. GOLDSTEIN: To my knowledge at present. no.”

“THE COURT: Does it make a difference whether a claim of irregularity or technical noncompliance with the election code is made with or without an accompanying claim of fraud or improper influence?”

“MR. GOLDSTEIN: It does not. I mean, to claim the technical defects are immaterial, which is in some sense some of the thrust of what the DNC argued, is really to misperceive what is going on in the election code. The election code is technical. These requirements are all technical. And some of them sit in that code for reasons that are a mystery for all of us. I mean, I sort of recounted for you my view of why the elector signing in his own hand is material. The DNC have their reasons for why they think it is material or immaterial. The fact of the matter is, it is in the code. The code is itself technical. Those technicalities are part and parcel of the law and a violation of the results in a ballot that can’t be counted.”

@crazyguy: ”The chances of exposure to other voters indoors is minimal and can be addressed rather easily.” Wrong. Poll workers in a number of places tested positive after November 6 after testing negative November 1st and 2nd.
(No, I don’t have links, I read this a few days ago, an article posted by a friend who is a poll worker.

@SQUEEKY2 Yes, I have heard of covid. If you vote in person and have a 4-hour wait in line (your time is paid for by others!), you may be exposed to two people in line (one on each side of you outside the facility. If you are concerned, wear a damn mask! Once you get inside, the concerns are minimal. The election centers I have seen take aggressive precautions.

So, yes, covid can be used for all kinds of changes. However, the driving force in election law changes was not covid. For instance, why would California switch from no-excuse mail-in ballots to “every voter on the voter rolls shall be mailed a ballot”? What have you gained except sending thousands, if not millions, of ballots to people who have zero interest in the election?

@JLeslie I fully understand the excuse used by Democrats in California and Nevada. However, please ask yourself why they did not include a tiny step of the voter confirming his desire for a mail-in ballot by requesting a postcard back?

@Caravanfan Did you happen to catch the Democrat alcohol-laden celebrations after Biden’s win? Do you think they exhibited any nervousness about covid at that celebration?

@lastexit I have not voted in-person for at least 20 years. I am on the permanent by-mail list in California. If you are not, you have to take the tiny step of requesting a mail-in ballot. Since that step is too much for Democrat voters, I would be even ok with mailing postcards to all registered voters with a one-liner (yes or no) and a signature. If the card is mailed back, the ballot shall be sent out. Otherwise not. What exactly would be the problem with that?

@doyendroll Dead people and others. It also makes it easier for ballot harvesters. In California, these people can be paid!!!

@Dutchess_III Typical. Never address the question, hide behind sarcasm or whatever. The question is: why were Democrats so uniformly trying to change the election laws to enable a large number of unclaimed ballots?

@ragingloli AND the only way to address the risk was by massive mailing of ballots to unconfirmed addresses of voters that have been inactive for the last 2+ elections?

@JLeslie I am sorry about your co-worker. I believe you know my position on in-person voting: avoid it like the ‘plague’! However, what is wrong with requiring the voter to take a tiny step of mailing back a postcard if s/he has any interest in the election?

@ragingloli Thanks for including the transcript in your answer. Let us examine the burden placed by the law. The plaintiff, who has no access to actual ballots is required to provide evidence of fraud. How exactly is the plaintiff supposed to find out? In fact how do CNN and others make the statement there is no fraud?

@canidmajor I am all for doing whatever it takes to stop in-person voting. In this day and age, when even fresh produce is ordered online, voting procedure is an anachronism. All I ask is that any voter who has the intention of voting, request a mail-in ballot; if even that is too difficult for Democrat voters to handle, let us send postcards to all registered voters. The postcards would have a single question and a signature space. The question is: Would you like your ballot mailed to this address? After the question, there would be two choices: Yes or no.

If yes is checked and the voter signs, a ballot shall be mailed out. If not, and no alternate address is provided, the ballot shall not be mailed out.

@crazyguy
Reverse that.
How can you even allege fraud, when you have no evidence to begin with?

@ragingloli What was alleged was not fraud. Reading from your earlier message: “a claim of irregularity or technical noncompliance with the election code is made with or without an accompanying claim of fraud or improper influence”. That is all the plaintiff can do!

@crazyguy I guess states did what they thought was best within the parameters of what they could execute.

Does any state require a postcard? My state requires registering for a mail-in, but we can do it by calling, email, online, or in person. What does a post card do to eliminate the fraud you worry about. The dishonest person can get the post card too can’t he? Also, post cards going back and forth take time and money. What about out of country and out of state residents? Mail forwarding often has delays.

Why is California and Nevada an exception? I don’t get it.

@crazyguy
Fraud is what the drumpf campaign is alleging. And they are asserting absolute certainty that there was “widespread fraud”.
How can you allege fraud publically with such certainty, but duck away like a mouse from a cat in court? You would think they would have enough evidence of fraud, that they could convince a court to at least order a more thorough investigation. But they are not even trying that.
Why do you think that is?

@JLeslie As usual, you raise reasonable objections. I wish others on this thread and others would learn.

I do not know if any state requires a postcard. There are many states that do require some indication that a particular voter is interested in receiving a mail-in ballot. I think the only exceptions are the 100% mail-in states (Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, and Hawaii) and California and Nevada. If a voter indicates the desire for a mail-in ballot, you accomplish two things:

1. Reduce the number of unclaimed ballots.
2. Confirm the voter’s address.

Secondary (relatively minor) benefits include reduction in costs and a head start on signature matching.

You second point about delays: We can get an early start of the process, especially for foreign addresses.

@ragingloli If we are going to have a dialog you have to address my points. Otherwise we are just yelling past each other.

I am not trying to justify Trump’s allegations. All I was responding to was your post. And it is absolutely true that no investigation of fraud is even possible without the actual ballots, which are much harder to get than transcripts of the President’s telephone conversations.

@crazyguy Do you think part of the reason Democrats pushed for mail-in is because they thought more Democrats would be able to vote?

@JLeslie Yes. And we see from the House and Senate results that the Democrats were not helped by the higher turnout. Yet, in the Presidential race,...

If your candidate is running behind in the count then you can stop the count. Then suddenly find a couple boxes of ballots all for your candidate.

Yes. It’s called “Social Distancing.” To keep people away from one another due to COVID-19.

@kritiper Give me a break. Did you see the celebrations after Biden’s win?

However, the driving force in election law changes was not covid

Oh look, a false claim presented as settled fact. How unexpected.

For instance, why would California switch from no-excuse mail-in ballots to “every voter on the voter rolls shall be mailed a ballot”?

Because of covid. You got your anwers in the first response and repeatedly afterwards. “I don’t like the answer!!” doesn’t change reality.

@gondwanalon Precisely. That is why you have to allow a few days after the election for ballots to be received!

If your candidate is running behind in the count then you can stop the count. Then suddenly find a couple boxes of ballots all for your candidate.

Somehow this only applies the presidential election, and not the House and Senate races on the same ballots. And it doesn’t apply to the 2016 result.

Conservative logic, ladies and gentlemen.

@Call_Me_Jay On Election Day, Biden was way behind in PA, WI and MI. I did not see any Senate results on that day. So the Democrats figured Biden needs help, and he got the help, in SPADES.

@crazyguy You can make some of the people observe social distancing all of the time, and you can make all of the people observe social distancing some of the time. But you can’t make all of the people observe social distancing all of the time.
Remember! Generally speaking, people, in general, are stupid. That’s why it’s best to try to cover all of your bases all of the time.

@crazyguy You know why in-person ballots counted first were tilted more towards Trump and mail-in were not. You can stop the disingenuous act. We know you are not arguing in good faith.

What’s wrong with giving people more time and resources to learn about what they are voting for? Here in Colorado I received my ballot about a month ahead of time, and we also receive a voter guide that explains what every measure or amendment is and what a yes vote means and what a no vote means. For me personally, a person who is overwhelmed by ballots every single election and the wording on them, this is extremely helpful. It took me days to fill out my ballot and do all the research necessary. Not just talking about voting for a president here, lots of important local things happening this year as well. So why not? What could that possibly hurt? Does it hurt to be more informed?

Also, Election Day this year for me fell during a 14-day quarantine since my housemate had Covid-19. If voting in person was the only way to vote that day, I would NOT have been able to vote. A quarantine does NOT mean you go out and do whatever you want, that is why this virus is still such an issue, because most people cannot understand that or think they are the exception to the rule.

My mother, who lives in Pennsylvania, was exposed to someone with Covid the Saturday before election day. She was told to quarantine for 14 days, but because Donald Trump told Republicans that voting by mail was unsafe, she was sure that was the truth, and went to the polls Tuesday and voted, even though she was supposed to be quarantined. People in PA, from my experience, could mostly give a shit less about wearing masks, so suppose my mom, or any number of people who potentially are asymptomatic Covid carriers, went to the polls and infected your sister, or grandmother, or husband or wife? Seems easily like something that could have been avoided by, GOD FORBID, filling out a ballot in your own home.

Reason was to commit the single largest heist/fraud in history. They overshot a tiny bit. Just one example: Mail in ballots were sent in BEFORE they were mailed out. Case made.

@si3tech
That is just because the Lizard People have time travel technology.

@crazyguy So, do you think Republicans don’t want mail-in because it helps the Democrats?

That’s what it is. The fraud is bullshit. The Republicans want to call it fraud, they packaged it so Trump supporters can feel good about themselves, they can convince themselves the Mail-in is a problem because of fraud potential, but it’s really about wanting to make it harder for Democrats to vote. You maybe have bought into the propaganda messaging from the right wing, but just admit the reality. They don’t want everyone to have a chance to vote.

Both parties can try to commit fraud, so that is a level playing field. It’s the Democrats who are systemically at a disadvantage to vote at all. Mail-in helped to cure that in some states. No matter what there would have been a huge Democratic turn out this time.

@crazyguy You point out Biden’s victory celebration saying people didn’t seem so concerned about social distancing there, so why not vote in person around others .
You Rep/cons ever get dizzy from all the spin you put on everything?

@crazyguy thanks for the instructions on how to vote by mail, but I already vote by mail. I, too, live in California.

Good news so far – no evidence of voter fraud in AZ or PA according to the latest as of Thursday afternoon, 11/12.

@jca2 they are not going to find any,unless the Republicans can plant some..
I wouldn’t put it pass them to try.

@SQUEEKY2: Hopefully they lock up the ballots and keep them away from those thieving Republican hands.

So @crazyguy no matter what we say it wont be good enough to satisfy why mail in ballots were pushed for this election,to you and all the other Trumpanzies it was just so there could be mass voter fraud in favour of the Democrats, did I get that right?

I haven’t plowed through this full thread but in response to someone acting like it was an amazing concept to mail a post card and ask if you wanted an absentee ballot…. Hey, I live in Alaska, a deeply conservative state. They sent a letter and used social media widely to remind people it was available. Heck, even if they sent one and you didn’t want to use it, it isn’t like you had to vote absentee. You just ignored it and voted in person as usual, tho’ I read somewhere that folks were asked to turn in their unused ballot if there was any question.

“Alligations of dead people voting” is not the same as “Evidence that people turned in votes for dead people.”
There are allegations of Big Foot sightings, and UFO sightings, and child trafficking through a pizza joint.
Allegations aren’t worth a poot in the wind.

Hey look, here are the suddenly “found” ballots that flip an election! Conservatives will no doubt howl in protest.

“While Lucas County was doing their audit, they found that in one of their precincts that there were 217 ballots passed for me that were not reported to the secretary of state on election night and 54 ballots for my opponent. That put me up ahead,” – Iowa GOP congressional candidate declares victory in one of closest races in history

@AlaskaTundrea I think @crazyguy is talking about something else. In Alaska when I looked it up, you can apply online as long as you have an AK driver’s license. The state doesn’t send you a postcard to make sure you live where you say. The state mailed you a postcard to keep you informed of all the ways you can vote. My county did the same, and my state and county are run by republicans.

@kritiper I cannot argue with that!

@Call_Me_Jay Tilted I knew about; overwhelmingly against was news to me.

@deni I cannot argue with any of the points you made. But I am confused. Did you answer my question?

@si3tech Sarcasm? Or are you serious?

@JLeslie If you were designing our voting system from scratch for our modern times, would you include mail-in ballots as an option? If the answer is yes, would you include some foolproof way of ensuring that the voter shown on the ballot is the one who filled out the form? If there is no way to do that, would you still include the mail-in option?

@lastexit You are welcome. I must confess I am confused as to what you are thanking me for!

@jca2 Without access to the actual ballots and the voter registration record, how can anybody say there is no evidence?

@AlaskaTundrea I believe the same goes in all states except the ones where it is 100% mail-in. You always have the option of not using the ballot that was mailed to you. However, the question is that with millions of ballots mailed out in states like California, what are the chances of some of them being misappropriated by somebody?

@Dutchess_III Like I have explained many times on this thread, individual ballots are more tightly protected than matters of national security. Therefore, nobody can produce evidence either pro or con.

@Call_Me_Jay The question is: are there any more?

@crazyguy You have to have a mail-in option unless you go to online voting. Online voting is worrisome to me, because it could be hacked.

I like having people request their ballots for up to two elections.

I think when someone dies we should notify voter registration. Banks get notified right away.

I think states should coordinate so when someone registers they cancel the registration in the former state. That affects in person voting too.

Mail-in is supposedly less expensive. It’s safer. More accessible to all voters. Poll workers can process as the votes come in. Paper trail.

I would put on all ballots a “no vote” bubble so it’s clear the voter isn’t voting for anyone in that office.

I like that mail-in is trackable.

I’m really not worried if a wife helps fill out a ballot for her husband. Or, a daughter for her mother. I think over 95% of the time people who do that are voting for how their close relative would want.

I’m not worried about “harvesting” as long as the person voting was not coerced in any way.

Either we believe in the right of every individual to vote or we don’t.

Gotcha. @crazyguy. No argument can withstand you.

Today on The Today Show, they did a hypothetical study where, if Trump won all of his lawsuits that he has re: fraudulent votes, would he will the election, and the answer was no.

@jca2 I could be wrong, but I believe, most, if not all, hypothetical studies are done on Election Day, in-person voting. Not on mail-in ballots.

@Dutchess_III My objection to your earlier post, which was:

“Alligations of dead people voting” is not the same as “Evidence that people turned in votes for dead people.”
There are allegations of Big Foot sightings, and UFO sightings, and child trafficking through a pizza joint.
Allegations aren’t worth a poot in the wind.

Your latest statement is completely off-base.

@JLeslie We currently have the option to move hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars on-line. Surely secure ways can be found of protecting the sanctity of a transaction (Each ballot is a ‘transaction’). My favorite is 2-step authentication. You sign in with a username and simple password (both easily remembered). The site then activates a random number generator on your phone that is linked to your account. In order to complete your sign-on, you are required to enter the random number within 30 seconds. Very simple, very effective.

On-line balloting is much cheaper than paper ballots. With a properly designed system, it can track all kinds of information. If something changes, there is little or no cost in changing the questions and/or choices.

Online voting can still include in-person voting, essentially for individuals without access to computers or the internet. Instead of filling out a paper ballot, the online voter would fill out the same electronic ballot that s/he could have done at home and/or in a public library or specially set-up location.

The biggest advantage is instant results. Votes are counted as they are cast, and released when voting is complete.

Voter death databases, voter registration databases in different states should all be cross-checked before a voter is allowed to cast a vote. If we do not have a way of securing the overall database, will somebody explain how we deal with financial an other important records on-line.

“I like having people request their ballots for up to 2 election cycles”. How about no need to ever request a ballot?

” Mail-in is supposedly less expensive. It’s safer. More accessible to all voters. Poll workers can process as the votes come in. Paper trail.” It’s not as cheap as online. Which is essentially free. It is not as safe as the system I am advocating. You can make online voting accessible to everybody without any requirement for prior action (like registration). There is no need for poll workers except the people who monitor online polling places.

Of course there is no paper, so no paper trail. However, ways can be found to record each keystroke by each voter. Which, I think, is better than any paper.

” I would put on all ballots a “no vote” bubble so it’s clear the voter isn’t voting for anyone in that office.” I agree.

” I like that mail-in is trackable.” Online is much more trackable, and foolproof.

“I’m really not worried if a wife helps fill out a ballot for her husband. Or, a daughter for her mother. I think over 95% of the time people who do that are voting for how their close relative would want.” That can be set up if the person not voting for himself or herself shares hi/her mobile device.

” I’m not worried about “harvesting” as long as the person voting was not coerced in any way.” There would be no need for harvesting.

” Either we believe in the right of every individual to vote or we don’t.” Please point out how my proposal interferes with anybody’s right to vote.

@crazyguy Here is some devil’s advocate to your points.

Not everyone has access to online. Poor and the elderly would be at a disadvantage.

Breeches do happen to credit cards and large company data.

If my in-laws had to do online voting, their daughter or I would probably wind up filling it out. Except, if we did it would probably be illegal and traceable to my IP and then maybe I wouldn’t do it, because I’m very uncomfortable breaking that sort of law, so then they just wouldn’t vote maybe. My in-laws can still drive to the polls, but then in a pandemic that’s a risk. My FIL is 80 years old, so eventually he won’t be able to drive probably.

I’d guess we have at least 20% of the population that doesn’t trust or know how to use online.

I had the same thought as @JLeslie when it comes to credit card companies, banks and credit bureaus (such as Equifax) that have the latest, greatest and most expensive websites and have suffered data and security breaches in the past few years.

Also, I agree with @JLeslie about online being very difficult for elderly people. I’m far from elderly and this past summer I had to register online for a Covid test. It was difficult to say the least and I told the person on the phone that I’m not a tech wizard but nor am I a dummy, and someone who is old would find this impossible. I asked her what happens in that case and she said the person who could not do it online would have to call in. How would that work with a vote? How would that work for someone who has no internet? No computer?

@crazyguy I think the reason was safety at the polls due to covid19. But voting by mail is not like, new for this election, we are all clear on that right? It makes sense for many reasons some of which I listed but I think democrats pushed for it because we actually tend to believe in covid 19. If any reasonable human had been president during this pandemic other than trump, they probably would have pushed for it too. But there’s no brain rattling around inside that big orange head, just a lot of narcissism blocking all shreds of reason.

2.7 million people voted by mail in the 2016 general election in Florida. No one seemed to care. Republicans around the country weren’t obsessed with it, weren’t worried about fraud.

Reminds me about questions regarding how deaths are recorded for covid. Flu deaths are recorded by the CDC as an estimate, the number is adjusted after the fact for greater accuracy. No one paid attention to it. All of a sudden people question how the CDC records data because they are being told there is a conspiracy.

@crazyguy. I was trying to be polite in addressing your snarky comment advising me to take the tiny step of requesting a mail in ballot. There was also your insulting comment as to the intelligence of Democrat (sic) voters.

@JLeslie: The Republicans didn’t question anything in 2016 because they won. When they lose, it’s different, apparently.

@lastexit: @crazyguy is like that with everyone. Nasty, snarky, unnecessarily rude.

Yeah but remember @jca2 Democrats are the ones that are all hate.

My only point @crazyguy is that “alligations” are not proof of any thing, and to pretend like it is is just foolishness.

Maybe you should follow the leads yourself and as others have suggested, not depend on MSM to give you the answers. trump accused GA of allowing dead people to vote. He gave the name of a desd man who hsd voted and he wanted that vote taken off the record as if 1 vote would save him. Well, due to some good investigative reporting this is the dead man who voted illegally. trump should be ashamed of himself for committing fraud

There is a LOT the president should be ashamed of….but “shame” is not in his very limited inventory of emotions.