Do you think it is up to individuals to get the facts on vaccines?

No we never get the first vaccines so we don’t get huge side affects.

Last time I checked, the side effects of covid are much worse than those of the vaccines…

I think individuals are exercising their right to choose for themselves. But it would be nice to see more PSA’s to counter actual misinformation.

@KNOWITALL I believe facts are fairly easy to separate from misinformation. If any person needs convincing to do the obvious right thing, I say too bad, and spend our resources on better informed people. The poorly informed will learn from others. Or they will catch Covid, and gain immunity.

@crazyguy Well you have much smarter people than us arguing it all over the world, so I’ll give my fellow Americans the benefit of the doubt for now. If you’re going to possibly die taking it or not taking it, then why do it?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus/who-urges-world-not-to-halt-vaccinations-as-astrazeneca-shot-divides-europe-idUSKBN2B71PU

@KNOWITALL you are right about that.

@KNOWITALL There are two possible actions one can take:

1. Take the vaccine.
2. Don’t take the vaccine.

Under action 1, there are two possible outcomes:

a. You experience mild symptoms and hen you gain immunity.
b. You experience severe side effects, one of which may be death.

Similarly, under Action 2, there are two possible outcomes:

a. You are fine.
b. You catch covid and suffer the consequences, one of which is death.

All available data indicates that vaccines are almost completely safe. Therefore chances of scenario 1(b) are extremely low. And chances of outcome 1(a) are extremely high.

Under Action 2, the chances of either outcome depend on many factors, one of which is how cautious you are. However, in my estimation, the chances of 2(b) are much higher than 1(b).

Therefore, to me, the decision is rather obvious.

I think governments should just side-step the issue entirely and make the vaccinations mandatory.

@ragingloli I agree with you, except I am not sure that will bring about any more compliance than making and requiring COVID passports for travel and other things.

Yes. I too celebrate our right to be stupid. It is the single freedom in our list of basic rights which has allowed me to prosper beyond what I ever dreamed feasible.

@crazyguy Correct, we all know this. But your question was about facts versus misinformation, not logic. haha!

No offense to you, but many healthcare workers are NOT taking it, as it’s not mandatory like the flu vaccine is. Why do you think hospitals are not making it mandatory?

Don’t worry, I’ll be getting it eventually, like the flu vaccine. But I would never look down on those who have legitimate concerns, such as breast cancer patients.

@KNOWITALL I do not look down on anybody who declines the vaccine for solid reasons. For instance anybody under 18 or anybody with cancer.

However, if anybody declines it because of a general fear of vaccines, and/or fear of side effects without any reference to scientific data, I would say ‘Too Bad’ and move on.

Everyone has the responsibility to inform their personal decisions with reliable facts.

BUT – The scale of this pandemic caught medical researchers and care providers by surprise, and many government officials are still unreliable and in denial when it comes to sharing information (China, you suck). The virus seems to be mutating and public response is shifting at the same time.

The best guidance could come from those who have already been vaccinated, or who have actually had COVID and survived. But news media has been slow and scattered in gathering and telling their stories.

Yes , but from reputable health sources.
I just had my Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine ( in western Canada) Friday March 19 2021.

I was handed a two page printed sheet for Care After Immunization.

Side Effects:
” many people have no side effects from the COVID-19 vaccine .
If you do have side effects, they tend to be mild and go away in a few days. ”
Side effects include:
– redness, swelling, or feeling sore where you got the needle.
– feeling tired.
– headache
– fever or chills
– body aches or sore joints
– feeling sick to your stomach(nausea),vomiting, or loose stool(diarrhea)
– swollen lymph nodes

“If you have side effects that are the same as COVID-19 symptoms, you must stay home and

away from others (isolate) even if you think the side effects are from the vaccine.

If your side effects start after 24 hours or last longer than 48 hours, stay home.( contact

health link to make an appointment to get tested for COVID-19, you must stay at home for

10 days from the start of your symptoms or until you no longer have symptoms, which ever is longer.”
“if you ONLY have redness ,swelling, or soreness where you had the needle, you do not need to stay away

If you had the vaccine you still have to practice public health measures.to stay home and

away from others.

- wear a mask ( follow guidelines for your area)
– wash your hands often
– staying home when you are sick(this means isolating)
-staying home for 14 days after having close contact with someone who has COVID – 19
or returning from outside Canada ( this means quarantining

I think some individuals have too many facts and that’s what is causing them to hesitate, because they aren’t good at evaluating risk.

I think the government needs to focus on cities and states that are very vaccinated and the virus going way down and things getting back to normal. The people rejecting getting the vaccine who possibly could be swayed either worry about it not being tested enough or worry it won’t change anything.

There was no point in obsessing about people who were reluctant to take the vaccine in January, because the demand was much much higher than the supply at the time, and so adding more demand just made it worse. Now, things are leveling off and it’s time to see if a few more people can be persuaded.

Mind you, where I live there are a lot of people still having trouble getting vaccinated, especially home bound and people who can’t drive very far. You probably thing they have less possibility of catching our spreading the virus, but some of them interact with people more than you might think. Here they might not drive far, but they drive or golf cart to many things within 5 miles.

I agree with Dr Wen that the public should continue to be encouraged to get the vaccine. It is a matter of public health as well as individual protection. As a rough guide 70% of a county’s population must be vaccinated to bring the epidemic under control and neither the US nor the UK has as yet achieved that.

Again, the WRONG question. The problem isn’t that people aren’t flooded with sufficient valid information, it’s the inability to discern the truth while submerged in constantly reinforced bullshit that is our internet world.

@stanleybmanly Yes that’s true. We all now have a voice, but not necessarily married to being factual.

It would help to provide some incentive to get the vaccine. If you listen to Fauci or Biden, getting the vaccine does nothing to get us back to normal. Still distancing, still masking, still not visiting grand kids. What’s the point? I’m way past my expiration date and would like to see things get back to normal. Telling me to get the vaccine and sometime next year we may be able to have a beer with friends does very little to incentivize me to get vaccinated. Either it provides immunity or it doesn’t. If it does, let me get my life back. If it doesn’t, what’s the point?

@Jaxk – Are you fucking serious?

@hello321
It is the typical conservative “I got mine, fuck everyone else” attitude. No surprise there.

@hello321 – I don’t know about ‘fucking serious’ but yeah pretty serious.

@Jaxk – So, you want to be coddled and told that “things will get back to normal” as soon as you get vaccinated? What if you’re told this in sweet baby talk that makes you feel real cozy, while you’re served a glass of warm milk? Will that work?

How about you enjoy your privilege, get vaccinated, and hope that we are able to manufacture enough vaccines to get to people before these variants reset everything? What is it that you’re missing out on?

@Jaxk: “Still distancing”

Ummm…we just started vaccinating people. And you have been told repeatedly that you can avoid distancing when you get together with your vaccinated friends and family. What kind of distancing are you talking about?

@Jaxk: “still masking”

You want to be told that we’ve vaccinated the US even though we haven’t? What kind of safe space crap is this? We should provide vaccination “You’re a big boy now! Good job!” sticker when they get their shot.

@Jaxk: “Either it provides immunity or it doesn’t. If it does, let me get my life back. If it doesn’t, what’s the point?”

Explain to me how this statement makes any sense at all. You said you were serious. Prove it.

I like to think of it like a swiss cheese block. Every time someone gets vaccinated, one of the holes in the swiss cheese are getting filled, making it harder for the virus to spread.

@hello321 – Maybe if I borrow the phrase from Biden, You’ll be able to understand. “Here’s the deal”. If I’m vaccinated I have no significant risk of catching the virus. If I have no significant risk of catching it, I have no significant risk of spreading it. I should be able to take my wife to dinner for a night out. Not sit in the parking lot of Burger King to gobble down a little nourishment.

If we allow those that are vaccinated to resume normal activities it will provide some incentive for those that are reluctant to get vaccinated. We already card people in bars and restaurants and many other places. Show your vaccination card and you can sit down and eat warm food. It’s not that tough. If you still want to eat in the parking lot with one of those zipper masks, go ahead. Hell, I don’t care.

@Jaxk: “Maybe if I borrow the phrase from Biden, You’ll be able to understand.”

I’m not a Dem and extremely anti-Biden, so you stop being cute.

@Jaxk: “If I’m vaccinated I have no significant risk of catching the virus. If I have no significant risk of catching it, I have no significant risk of spreading it. I should be able to take my wife to dinner for a night out. Not sit in the parking lot of Burger King to gobble down a little nourishment.”

You should move to MA. We never had a shutdown. Neither did NH. I can’t even count how many times I have been out to eat many times over the past year. We’ve vacationed and eaten out in 4 different states. There is no – as in zero – federal rules on this. It’s what you conservatives love – it’s a states issue.

@Jaxk: “If we allow those that are vaccinated to resume normal activities it will provide some incentive for those that are reluctant to get vaccinated. We already card people in bars and restaurants and many other places. Show your vaccination card and you can sit down and eat warm food.”

I actually agree with you. We’re in an extreme vaccine shortage right now, and people are willing to cut peoples’ throats just to get vaccinated. But yes – once we actually have sufficient vaccine supply and we start to approach a slow-down in people willing to get vaccinated for whatever reason, we need to shut down things for the non-vaccinated.

To summarize – we never had a shutdown in the New England area. Things just went on as normal (except for the fact we abandoned public education). So, you could have just moved here and had your warm meals without vaccination right from the start.

What state are you from? Are you really not allowed to eat in restaurants?

Anyway, looks like we actually agree. When the vaccine shortage is over and we are finding people unwilling to get vaccinated, people who are not vaccinated should not be allowed to participate in society. No work, no market, no being in public, no restaurant, etc. Nothing until they can prove they are vaccinated.

Until then, we have to work on vaccinating those desperate people who would do anything just to get vaccinated. And until then – this nothing to do with the federal government or Biden.

@JLoon I agree 100%. We are all relatively free to make up our own minds. However, keep in mind that, for the same reasons that everybody is required to wear a mask, everybody may also be required to be vaccinated.

@Inspired_2write I am not surprised that Canada is following the Democratic playbook:Maximize the risks, and minimize any good news. After all, that was the approach that won them the election.

I would say the following:

1. All the listed side effects are similar to covid symptoms. That being the case, I am flabbergasted by the statement: “If you have side effects that are the same as COVID-19 symptoms, you must stay home and away from others (isolate) even if you think the side effects are from the vaccine. Sounds like gobbledygook to me.
2. The last few admonitions are standard: ‘If you had the vaccine you still have to practice public health measures.to stay home and away from others.
– wear a mask ( follow guidelines for your area)
– wash your hands often
– staying home when you are sick(this means isolating)
-staying home for 14 days after having close contact with someone who has COVID – 19
or returning from outside Canada ( this means quarantining)’

What they don’t tell you is why you should even take the vaccine if you are going to do all that!

@JLeslie You say: worry it won’t change anything. That is something we can do something about. Since CDC is (finally!) on record as saying that vaccinated people can:

1. frolic (my word) with each other.
2. include some unvaccinated people from a single household in their frolicking.
3. wear masks in public.

I think we WILL eventually get to the final step: if you have been vaccinated and have readily apparent evidence (a green aura!) you can return to normal.

@Jaxk I have made a personal decision to wear a mask only where it is required.

@crazyguy The only thing I see screwing things up is the South African variant or another new one that’s lethal. I have my doubts that the vaccines give some sort of partial immunity against that strain. I would be curious to know the age groups of the phase testing in Africa, I have tried to look it up. Most African countries have a very low median age.

@JLeslie I believe the vaccine takes 99.9% of the risk out of serious disease with any variant. I would like to get to 100%, but you know that is almost impossible.

@crazyguy Originally, I thought that would be the case meaning up until one month ago I thought that would be the case. Now, I think I might have been wrong.

@JLeslie So, obviously, you think risk reduction is less than the numbers I used. How low do they have to drop before changing my basic contention: it is absolutely idiotic to decline the vaccine.,

@crazyguy I’m not saying to decline the vaccine. I’ve already had my first dose.

Let’s take the flu. I’m under the impression the statistics/efficacy for how effective the flu vaccine is has much more to do with if they chose the correct strains for what is actually floating around during flu season. They choose the strains based on Asia’s flu season months before ours, because it takes quite a lot of time to produce the vaccine since it grown.

So when it says 60% effective I wonder if that translates to 0% effective if the strain of flu you get infected with isn’t in the quadrivalent vaccine that year. I’ve heard “them” say it might still have some protection if you catch a strain not in the vaccine, but I have always really doubted it, so that’s why I’m questioning the covid situation.

Years when they choose badly a lot of flu happens. This why I have these questions. It’s not that they guess badly, a new strain can develop during the months the vaccine is being manufactured, or a strain that existed but not causing a lot of infection can suddenly take off.

I would really need to know how they calculate the efficacy.

Not only can new strains develop, the indications are that they are nearly certain to develop as they have thus far. And with one third of the population apparently reluctant to be inoculated, we just might be subjected to a future of routine booster shots from here on out. Face it, there is an excellent chance that masks will be as routine as cell phones in public.

It is up to them.

@stanleybmanly 8 or 9 months ago I saw a couple interviews with researchers saying the mutations looked like they would not change how the virus entered our cell and so the vaccine would be effective, but there have been new mutations since then and so that seems with some of them to not be the case.

It will be interesting to see if some vaccines perform much better once we have data for millions of people who have been vaccinated. I’m guessing less precautions will be taken by most people going forward than during the trials. I think a lot of people feel safe enough once vaccinated to start doing things that they hadn’t been before.

That’s an interesting thought. I have a great deal of skepticism these days regarding the judgement of our people, and I am convinced that if the lethality of this disease is insufficient to convince a substantial portion of us to maximize precautions, the malingerers will seal our future fate as a masked society being the norm in the public sphere. Already, in this town, being caught without a mask in a public building is about as tolerable as smoking. I think there’s an excellent chance that the stubborn attitude of the op might well earn him the pariah status he courts, even in the former bastion of nutcase kooks.

@stanleybmanly Some states will be like test cases. I predict some states will have very little mask wearing soon if they were having any before.

In Florida I can’t predict what will happen in stores. I know where I live in the recreation centers (remember I’m in a mostly retired community) very few people were wearing masks while playing pool or doing an exercise class. Now that people are getting vaccinated, the people who would not do anything indoors before are now going back to dance classes, so unmasked interactions I predict will go way up in my corner of the country.

And Britain is going through its mutated 3rd wave even as their vaccinations ramp up. You’ve gotta wonder in a world with 7 billion crowded, mobile and obstinate people, the future for communicable contagion looks bright indeed. Want an investment tip? Put your money on those fruitful enterprises engendered through misery.

@JLeslie I have already explained at length how efficacy is calculated.

Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were developed for the prevalent strain that was infecting people in the US last summer. By all indications, the strains has not mutated sufficiently to render the vaccine useless. Therefore I am lost by “during the months the vaccine is being manufactured”. The vaccines are here now.

I think covid has done us a huge favor at the expense of the entrenched flu vaccine producers. By taking some of the mystery out of vaccine development and manufacture, Moderna and BioNTech have shown that flu vaccines can be developed and manufactured relatively quickly.

@JLeslie Even the CDC has said that vaccinated people can go maskless in two distinct situations:

1. When mingling with small groups of vaccinated folks. I frankly do not understand the significance of small.
2. When mingling with a small group of unvaccinated people from a single household.

So, as far as I can tell, the person you were responding to is as clueless as ever!

Tell it to Herman Cain.