General Question

luigirovatti's avatar

Is there some Holy Bible translation/commentary which claims the virgin birth of Jesus is not true?

Asked by luigirovatti (2214points) 1 week ago

I already know of the Anchor Yale Bible, and others. I prefer, though, a full version, let’s say, not a book-by-book tran./comm., if possible. This is very important for me, so any help is appreciated. Thank you very much for your patience.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

22 Answers

kritiper's avatar

If there isn’t, there should be. Because, logically and scientifically, it’s impossible.

KNOWITALL's avatar

The Pauline Epistles
The earliest Christian writings, the Pauline epistles, do not contain any mention of a virgin birth and assume Jesus’s full humanity, Mark, dating from around AD 70, has no birth story and states that Jesus’s mother had no belief in her son as if she had forgotten the angel’s visit.[26] Matthew and Luke are late and anonymous compositions dating from the period AD 80–100, and it is almost certain that neither was the work of an eyewitness.[27][28][29] This raises the question of where the authors of Matthew and Luke found their stories. Both used Mark as their basic source, but the virgin birth is not found there, nor, in view of the many inconsistencies between them, did one of them derive it from the other or share a common source.[2] Raymond E. Brown suggested in 1973 that Joseph was the source of Matthew’s account and Mary of Luke’s, but modern scholars consider this “highly unlikely”, given that the stories emerged so late.[30] It follows that the two narratives were created by the two writers, drawing on ideas in circulation in some Christian circles perhaps by around AD 65.[31]
Wiki
https://www.britannica.com/topic/biblical-literature/The-Pauline-Letters

elbanditoroso's avatar

Define your bibles.

NO version of the Torah, the Tanach, or the Old Testament says anything about Jesus.

As far as the New Testament goes – propaganda written for coercive purposes.

kritiper's avatar

Doubtful the Old Testament would mention Jesus since the New Testament begins with his birth.

Inspired_2write's avatar

Book Of Enoch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfKJw8pHazw

video but text is written in comments section.

sorry's avatar

@kritiper well, actually, if Maria had been a reptile she could have given birth by Parthenogenesis. It is, scientifically possible, but not with the human race. So… perhaps that might add more comment and questions. Was Jesus the serpent? There are all sorts of circular reference and conflicting facts.

Lightlyseared's avatar

The virgin thing is probably a mistranslation. The original text probably said “without sin”

Strauss's avatar

@Lightlyseared The virgin thing is probably a mistranslation. The original text probably said “without sin”

The original mention was Matthew 1:19. The Gospel of Matthew was written in Greek, and the author quoted from the Greek translation of Isaiah 7:14. The original Hebrew text uses the Hebrew word alma, which means young woman. The Septuagint Greek translates it as parthenos, which means virgin.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@sorry It’s interesting to imagine various scenarios, I like the way you think.

crazyguy's avatar

I think the virgin birth was the first of many miracles, each just as unlikely as the first. But then wait a minute; Jesus was the Son of God, so anything is possible, right?

Strauss's avatar

@luigirovatti I had heard about this discrepancy many years ago when I was in a Catholic seminary school. I just recently read something about it from this scholar.

Here’s a link to an excerpt from a book by Dr. Joel Hoffman, a Jewish translator and biblical scholar and commentator.

kritiper's avatar

@sorry Well, if you want to consider it, a frog’s ass might be watertight, but, who cares? If you’re looking for “facts,” you can look anywhere.

sorry's avatar

@kritiper Technically speaking a frog’s ass isn’t watertight and several species of frog and turtles can actually breathe through their assholes. ‘Facts’ can be found everywhere and it’s only when we critically analyse things can we dispel myths.

kritiper's avatar

@sorry Glad you’ll keep looking.

Inspired_2write's avatar

@elbanditoroso
it wasn’t written because they censored it as most Religions do to promote only one Religion.

JLoon's avatar

Jesus loves frog’s asses. It’s in the Bible.

Somewhere.

Inspired_2write's avatar

@kritiper
Artificial insemination is possible.
For those that espouse Alien interference was involved. ( keep an open mind of all possibilities).

Inspired_2write's avatar

@Lightlyseared
Might want to remember that in those times girls as young as ten years old were married off, so its not that impossible.

JLoon's avatar

Seriously though, I’m not a conventional Christian and have never tied my beliefs any orthodox doctrine. I think the power of the gospels is in the moral truth of the teaching, not mysterious claims about divine birth & miracles.

With all that in mind it looks to me like the best answers so far have come from KNOWITALL and others who put the language of scriptures in some kind of historical context. It’s also interesting that nowhere in any gospel does Jesus himself claim that he was born from “immaculate conception”.

So if really knowing for sure is important, you may never be satisfied.

Caravanfan's avatar

@elbanditoroso The Old Testament is also propaganda.

Strauss's avatar

@JLoon The Immaculate Conception is doctrine, not in the scripture. And it has to do with the belief that Mary, as the potential mother of Jesus, was conceived without the mark (Latin: macula) of Original Sin inherited by all other humans from Adam and Eve. This was in foreknowledge of the divinity of her son.

Strauss's avatar

Virgin birth, on the other hand, is the Christian doctrine that Jesus was miraculously conceived by the Holy Spirit, and that Mary was a Virgin at the birth of Jesus and miraculously remained a virgin ever after.

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.

This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther