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seawulf575's avatar

Are the climate changers on the wrong track?

Asked by seawulf575 (14136points) 1 month ago

I was surprised to find an article that shows that air pollution in the US and Europe had been steadily decreasing since the 1970’s. This reduction in man-made aerosols and particles has resulted in much more powerful and plentiful Atlantic hurricanes. The article shows that because the pollution in Asia is still very high, there are more aerosols and particles impacting the Pacific ocean which is why the typhoons are much more gentle.

Most of the climate change efforts have not held Asia accountable for significant pollution reduction. Does this lack of accountability by Asia (China in particular) indicate that the efforts for battling climate change are not being pointed in the direction they need to be to get the greatest impact for mankind?

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Tropical_Willie's avatar

You understand Smog also known as air pollution and climate change are two different things.

Areas in California have restrictions on wood burning stoves because of air pollution.

Climate change is why the ocean is rising, causing the three houses lost on the Outer Banks recently

gorillapaws's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Correct. There’s a difference between smog and climate change. Both are bad. We do need all countries to get on board.

China is in real trouble ecologically. Their mismanagement of water is particularly troubling, as they’re contaminating their underground water supplies at a disturbing rate. Combine this shifting weather patterns as a result of climate change, desertification of land and their expansion of Chinese hegemony into Africa and South America, promoting similar ecologically bankrupt practices around the globe is extremely problematic for anyone who wants to live on planet Earth. These pressures can create the conditions for wars, mass migrations and refugees.

The way out is green tech, responsible policy, education, and diplomacy. We need to abandon fossil fuel as a species.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie of course air pollution and climate change are different things. But they are closely related. What is man-made climate change? What causes it? CO2, CO and CH4 in the air from “burning” things. Internal combustion engines release them. Diesels release them. All sorts of industrial efforts release them. All these sources release these gases along with the particulate and aerosols the article speaks of. Those contribute to air pollution, but also to climate change. It is ignorant to suggest that smog or air pollution can exist without contributing to climate change. And what the article was postulating is that USA and Europe have done a lot to lower their emissions, thereby lowering the particulates and aerosols in the air over the Atlantic Ocean. If they are lowering the particulates and aerosols, doesn’t it stand to reason that they are also lowering the carbon emissions?

Meanwhile China is, hands down, the largest contributor to carbon emissions in the world. At the Paris Accords they were deemed a developing country even though they are the top contributor of industry to the world. They were allowed to do nothing until 2030.

That is the point of the question. We hear a lot about climate change and how everyone must change everything to lower carbon emissions. But the country that contributes, single handedly, almost 30% of the world’s carbon emissions is not only held accountable, they are given a pass and we are supposed to help them get more “developed”. If climate change is really that dire a threat, shouldn’t we be going after the worst offenders?

janbb's avatar

@seawulf575 For once you are right. Yes, we should be going after the worst offenders – wherever they are. But I’d have to be a lot smarter than any of us here to draw any other conclusions from one article.

Pandora's avatar

@seawulf575 Everyone knows China is a big contributor but lets be real. What on earth can the rest of the world do to stop China. I mean we could maybe contribute ideas on how to clean up the mess they are creating but what can be done other than that? We could also not buy a lot of their stuff but there is always a workaround and greedy American companies aren’t going to let go of their golden goose.

Zaku's avatar

“Are the climate changers on the wrong track?”
– No. Well, assuming by “climate changers” you are crudely mis-naming people who are concerned that man-made climate change threatens life as we know it on this entire planet.

(Literally, “climate changers” would be those changing the climate. I’m sure you didn’t mean that, but if you did, then yes, those people would be on the wrong track, since they’re endangering most life on earth.)

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yes all polluters have to held accountable, that includes China and the States.

flutherother's avatar

China emits twice as much CO2 as does the US. However it should be born in mind that China’s per capita emissions are only half those of the US.

Irukandji's avatar

The climate changers? As in the people who are inching us closer and closer to the destruction of life as we know it? Yes, they are on the wrong track.

As for the people who are trying to minimize the negative effects of climate change, it’s unclear why you think the linked article shows, suggests, implies, or otherwise points to them being on the wrong track. It’s not like no one has tried to get commitments out of China. But the very nature of international efforts is that the biggest countries ultimately don’t have to answer to anyone but themselves, and few governments have been willing to step up and take real action against China despite how much actual environmentalists (as opposed to politicians who pose as environmentalists when it suits them) have asked them to do so.

And it’s not surprising that air pollution has been decreasing since the 1970s because that’s when we started actively trying to decrease air pollution. The problem, or at least one of the big problems, is that we haven’t been able to decrease it by enough.

SquirrelEStuff's avatar

I do think “climate changers” are on the wrong track, but for a different reason.

We have a type of man-made climate change that seems to be unknown to many people. There are at least three states that I am aware of that have official weather modification program in which they allow for permits to be issued to companies for “Decisions to deploy aircraft and disperse seeding materials (both silver iodide and salts) are made by trained meteorologists licensed by TDLR specifically for weather modification. Aircraft are based at airports in various locations within the “target” areas of these projects, i.e. where the impact of seeding (more rainfall from thunderstorms) is intended.”

The states of Texas, Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming are the states with these official programs and the links to each can be found below. There are also several countries who participate in weather modification and cloud seeding such as China, Russia, Australia, France, Israel, etc.

Now I understand that this may not be exactly the type of climate change you are referring to, but it is literally man-made climate change that is being done by several states and countries, yet is never included in the conversation.

-Are there unintended consequences for doing something like this such as increasing storm intensity or impacting weather down the line, especially if more states and countries continue to do this?
-Why are the ideas of “chemtrails” and planes spraying metals known as conspiracy theories when it is clearly laid out that silver iodide and salts are being sprayed into the atmosphere?

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/weather/weathermod.htm

https://cwcb.colorado.gov/focus-areas/supply/weather-modification-program

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title73/Chapter15/C73-15_1800010118000101.pdf

https://wwdc.state.wy.us/weathermod/weathermod.html

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