General Question

elbanditoroso's avatar

Trump took the 5th amendment more than 440 times in yesterday's deposition. What conclusions would you draw?

Asked by elbanditoroso (31977points) 1 month ago

In a criminal case, jurors are instructed that ‘taking the 5th’ cannot be construed as evidence of guilt.

In a civil case, the judge and jury (grand jury) can consider ‘taking the 5th’ as evidence.

What conclusions would you draw about our illustrious former president pleading the 5th amendment (I won’t answer on the grounds it may incriminate me) more than 440 times?

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83 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

“So there are five people taking the Fifth Amendment, like you see on the mob, right? You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”
– The Orangutan, in 2016

RayaHope's avatar

Guilty as sin. According to @ragingloli this pumpkin can’t even remember what he said about taking the 5th!

freguarUK's avatar

Sometimes it is easier for a businessman to shoot himself or burn all his capital following the example of the Joker than to try to conduct his business absolutely, honestly.

All of us, at some point, are forced to look at ourselves in the mirror, and see who we really are.

We are sometimes forced to cheat and lie. But! One of you held a candle that the life, lived by him without virtue, without principle?
I think @SavoirFaire would be able to say very correct words about this.

LostInParadise's avatar

@ragingloli , In all fairness, Trump did mention his previous statement, according to this article Not that it makes much sense.

I once asked, ‘If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?’” he said in the statement.

“Now I know the answer to that question,” he continued in the statement. “When your family, your company, and all the people in your orbit have become the targets of an unfounded, politically motivated Witch Hunt supported by lawyers, prosecutors, and the Fake News Media, you have no choice.”

jca2's avatar

On the news last night, they had a legal expert who said that the 5th is supposed to be used when the true and correct answer will incriminate you. Therefore, I must conclude that he is guilty and the truth would be incriminating.

cookieman's avatar

He really doesn’t want to talk.

He heard it once on Law & Order thinks it sounds cool.

JLeslie's avatar

That his lawyers told him to take the fifth.

It’s a waste of time questioning him if he has the right to take the fifth.

They should ask him questions to incriminate people who worked with him so he can’t take the fifth. Or, could he still? I don’t know how the law works.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

The way he talks, if I was his lawyer I’d tell him to shut the f*** up and plead the fifth even if he was innocent.

kritiper's avatar

It would be up to the prosecutors to provide evidence of guilt, so he can still be found guilty if he is indeed guilty.

LadyMarissa's avatar

He ONLY showed up for the hearing so he could grandstand after the hearing. I won $100 off my BFF so I can’t even be mad at him!!! My BFF swore that we were going to get to the bottom of “witch hunt” & SHUT everybody up. I bet her that he would plead the 5th until Latisha James got tired of hearing it & shut up. I had NO idea how many times he would say it; but, I KNEW that it would be MORE than once!!!

Go back to 2016 (54 seconds) & see how many times he threw it up in Hillary’s face. Since then he’s declared that he knows more about the law than anybody else. So this crap that he didn’t understand what pleading the 5th meant doesn’t hold water with me!!! He flip flops on brilliance & stupidity faster than he lies & that’s a LOT!!!

Jaxk's avatar

As I understand it he was questioned for 6 hours. They asked the same question over and over phrased slightly different. So the number of times he took the fifth is irrelevant. Also you can’t plead the Fifth on some questions but not others. It’s an all or nothing conundrum. There’s no question that they are looking for anything to prosecute him, hell a simple parking ticket would suffice. Congress and the FBI have proven that they will lie and falsify evidence to try and get him. Any testimony would be a no win proposition. There is no upside.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Give Uncle Sam a break, trumper.

freguarUK's avatar

Oh, people. Justice is when a court can appear before the court of the one it judges. Trump is not ready to punish his enemies. Republicans in general have historically had certain inclinations. If the Kennedy clan had been touched by what touched Trump, then everything would have ended with the fact that the enemies would have been tortured alive.
What would we say about him here now if he had never become a politician?

HP's avatar

You know, it really is curious in regard to Trump, how thin the ice is regarding excuses concocted on his behalf. All you need do is simply glance at the scale and persistence of the legal entanglements defining the man. But equally telling are the consequences befalling any and all entities or individuals brushing against the criminal tar baby. It is just appalling that an individual pathologically driven to demanding personal loyalty from all associated with him, so readily discards those he finds in any way inconvenient. The list of those thrown under the bus as reward for service to the pig is absolutely flabbergasting. And the excuse that the FBI itself lies and invents the crimes he is accused of requires a rather stupendous application of vivid imagination. EVERYONE and anything in cahoots with piggy winds up processed in the legal slaughterhouse, or brutally destroyed financially and reputationally. Individuals, municipalities, a political party—you name it. Idiots look at this and conclude (ready for it) that it is the FBI, the courts and the department of justice that is at fault. I mean gimmee a break.

freguarUK's avatar

@HP. I think the FBI is a powerful enough organization to have anything to do with what you impute to Trump.

JLeslie's avatar

I actually believe they rephrased some of the same questions multiple ways, but ok, then let’s say there were only 100 questions he wouldn’t answer on the grounds that it might incriminate him.

Remember Benghazi? They questioned Hillary I think eight hours, and some of the questions were rephrasing of the same question. She answered all if not most of the questions. At one point when she got tired of the political game of answering the same thing over and over she exclaimed something like “what’s important is we learn from this,” and that’s all Republicans remember. Saying she didn’t care about the people who died. Are they now saying Trump not answering is ok?

Politics is bullshit.

filmfann's avatar

Trump took the 5th amendment more than 440 times in yesterday’s deposition. What conclusions would you draw?

He’s finally listening to his lawyers.

Jaxk's avatar

@JLeslie – Clinton didn’t take the fifth she merely said she couldn’t remember.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

He’s listening to his lawyers because he can’t bullshit his way out !

New York I think has evidence; he got loans fraudulently and same property was under appraised for taxes. I think New York is playing like a fiddle!

LostInParadise's avatar

One reason that Trump’s lawyers don’t want him to say anything is that, given Trump’s tendency to tell lies, they are afraid that he will commit perjury.

mazingerz88's avatar

Trump is a douche who thinks he’s a great man. I think he planned this all along. Like a reality TV show.

He knew this would happen in Season 3, Episode 5
of his deplorable show. The FBI would come to his house to get those boxes that he was fully of aware he shouldn’t have taken home in the first place.

( The only scenario that would be worse is if he sold the info on those documents to foreign spies. )

This megalomaniac will never stop giving America the show that he thinks it wants. He would perish if his show gets taken off the air. He already sent emails asking his fans to send him money.

I pity those who would fall for this con-artist, especially those who are just trying to make ends meet.

Response moderated (Off-Topic)
Response moderated
jca2's avatar

I was trying to google Hillary Clinton’s testimony. I’m sure there are transcripts on the internet. I found this article, which is not a transcript but it has some details of her statements:

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-trey-gowdy-benghazi-committee-119864

Response moderated
KNOWITALL's avatar

I guarantee you he got solid advice to plead the 5th. Ask for a lawyer and stfu is standard.

flutherother's avatar

At this point I’d be interested in knowing whether the handcuffs can fit around those pudgy wrists.

RayaHope's avatar

^ lol! No need, he won’t be running away anyway :)

HP's avatar

Fortunately for the capacity of the legal system, neither stupidity nor gutless cowardice in facing the truth are indictable offenses. The Republicans get a pass.

KRD's avatar

He is probably will wait for more evidence before he does anything scene this Trump is bad crap is really getting on my nerve.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

He is looking into a flight to Moscow by way of Italy and India !

Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

If he has nothing to hide, then what is it he’s hiding?

KRD's avatar

Why would he go into Russia @Tropical_Willie?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

No extradition !

His BFF Putin is there !

He still has classified documents !

seawulf575's avatar

A smart move. He has had political witch hunts for the past 6 years. He has had the federal government create lies to persecute him with and in many of the cases it has been an excuse to look for something substantial they could use against him. A parade of “witnesses” who witnessed nothing concerning whatever the scam of the day was were brought in to “testify” which usually consisted of what they thought about Trump. They even had “eye-witness” testimony that specifically stated they weren’t there and that they heard it from someone that knew someone that was there. And most recently, in an unprecedented move, the FBI raided his private home for no apparent reason.

After years of that, why would you cooperate with any of these corrupt Dems?

LadyMarissa's avatar

Mar-a-Lago is NOT his “private” home. It’s his club/resort which is one of his BUSINESS ventures!!! He insists on having the Secret Service protect him & then charges us $6K per day for them to stay at his resort, so he’s being PAID to be protected!!!

What amazes me is how seemingly intelligent people choose to go stupid once they hear his name!!!

RayaHope's avatar

@seawulf575 First of all the pumpkin brought this on by himself. The FBI doesn’t just “persecute” someone for NO reason. The FBI doesn’t “makeup” evidence to get someone convicted. The FBI DID get a court order (that was signed by a judge) so no “raid” ever took place. Search and raid are two entirely different things. Mar-a-Lago is NOT his private home.

The great pumpkin has plenty of dirty dealings under his belt but you make him out to be some kind of “flawless god” that never did anything wrong…puuulease!

chyna's avatar

@seawulf575 If it turns out that trump did, in fact, have classified nuclear documents, will you still say it’s all good? Is your faith in him that blind?
Because I did vote for Biden, but I see the things he does wrong or screws up on and I don’t make an excuse for him. I just say “yes, he really screwed that up” and stop the conversation there. I don’t go into “but, …..”
I loved Jimmy Carter but I knew he had faults.
I loved Obama, but I saw his faults.
Do you see any of trumps faults at all?

flutherother's avatar

Trump was unfit for high office from the start. Instead of bringing a measure of dignity to the role of president he has done nothing but whine and complain like a spoilt child. My conclusions about Trump were drawn long ago and before he pled the 5th amendment 440 times. He is by far the worst president in the history of the United States of America.

JLeslie's avatar

I don’t understand why people make a point to say Mar-a-Lago is or isn’t his private residence. It is his PRIMARY residence as far as I know? That’s how he can vote here. I don’t know if he can get a Florida homestead exemption on it? We should look it up. That would be a real feat if he was able to cap how high his property tax can go each year. I doubt Palm Beach County allowed that.

JLeslie's avatar

Mar-a-Lago does pay property tax and no homestead exemptions.
https://www.pbcgov.org/PAPAMobile/Srch/PropertyDetails?enc=xVOLCVIfLeoPXzIq6aILMBgC6nWIfFdCMzRuORIrr7+hZ4AU3NZR5r7WxATkyAry+DJFJ8iChTrywJDjJ23BaV1tzbkQEQErgVvp9ETjzHE9NJz3HXtpjUTZcdbyO+w2Y2j8xtFu+Q/+jeJM/sTR5Q==

It’s listed as a large residential. Trump is not the owner it’s held by Mar a Lago Club Inc.

WhyNow's avatar

@LadyMarissa

Mar-a-Lago is NOT his “private” home. It’s his club/resort which is one of his BUSINESS ventures!!! He insists on having the Secret Service protect him & then charges us $6K per day for them to stay at his resort, so he’s being PAID to be protected!!!

What amazes me is how seemingly intelligent people choose to go stupid once they hear his name!!!”

The secret service pays 6k a day to stay at mar a lago while on protective detail?
m-a-l is a business venture?! Time for the death penalty.

I didn’t choose to go stupid… baby I was born this way. Lady Gaga.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Use as a Trump residence

In September 2019, Mar-a-Lago became the primary residence for Donald and Melania Trump, who previously held primary residence in New York City.[92][93] The legality of this has been disputed because, in 1993, Trump signed a “use agreement” with the town of Palm Beach, Florida, that changed Mar-a-Lago’s designation from a single-family residence to a private club and specified that guests, including Trump, could not stay there more than three non-consecutive weeks per year.[94][95]

In December 2020, neighbors of Mar-a-Lago delivered a demand letter to the town of Palm Beach, stating that the town should notify Trump that he cannot use the estate as his residence.[94][96] Trump argues that he can live at Mar-a-Lago permanently as a bona fide employee.[97]

WhyNow's avatar

^^ Not sure how this post relates.
The yentas at Palm Beach want to harass trump?. Shocking
But I understand, so many police vehicles with flashing lights make property
values decline.

HP's avatar

Trump is a lesson on how the protections afforded us through our legal system may be exploited to the fullest. But he is also the fulfillment of the dictum that “the mills of the gods grind slowly, but exceedingly fine”. And the legal stones grinding Trump are massive beyond measure. They grind at him relentlessly and no amount of squirming is going to spare him the inevitable outcome. He will be lucky to be recognized as powder when those mills are done with him.

WhyNow's avatar

^^ This talk has been going on since 2016 or so…
Let’s get on with it!!!

RayaHope's avatar

^ Trump the great pumpkin, makes property values decline.

HP's avatar

@WhyNow consider what has befallen carrot top in those 6 years of “talk”. More to the point, take a peak at the fate of all so stupid as to side with the scumbag as the mills inexorably grind away.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Even Graham is sliding down hill!!!

Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

He’s about washed up. It’s all over.

RayaHope's avatar

^ Oh happy dance!!

Brian1946's avatar

@RayaHope Hopefully you can go to his imprisonment party at Pumpkin Penitentiary, if you go to FL. ;p

RayaHope's avatar

@Brian1946 Oh yes I may have to book accordingly. lol!

JLeslie's avatar

@elbanditoroso I remember that argument and there was even some picketing I think. I assume it was resolved, because they still live there.

At the time I ventured to guess that a general manager or some other position probably can live on the premises and he could just give himself a position. That was just a guess I had, but I assumed there was a reasonable way around, it sounds like Trump is saying exactly what I said. It sounds ok to me.

Edit: people who hate Trump don’t like when he uses legal loopholes, but they are legal, and almost anyone would use the loophole, even the people who are bitching about it.

The recent upset is he buried Ivana on his property so he gets a tax break. Also, recently, there is a story that he gets taxed as agricultural land on one of his properties, because he bails hay there. EVERYONE in their right mind tries to get an ag tax rate if they can. Real estate has some of the best tax loopholes, tax exemptions, and tax write-offs out there.

seawulf575's avatar

@RayaHope “The FBI doesn’t just “persecute” someone for NO reason. The FBI doesn’t “makeup” evidence to get someone convicted.” Have you heard of the Russia Collusion hoax? Maybe heard that they lied on FISA warrants so they could spy on Trump and his team…you know…American citizens? How about Peter Strzok? Ever hear of him? He was key on lying to get a warrant on Carter Paige. Mr. Strzok was a key FBI agent. In each of these examples, the FBI DID makeup evidence to get someone convicted. But for sure they weren’t trying to persecute Trump for no reason…they didn’t like him because he wasn’t part of the plan…he wasn’t part of the deep state.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna if Trump was found to have mishandled classified materials, I would feel he should be treated the same way I feel Hillary should have been treated. How about this one back atcha…If he is found to have mishandled classified materials, are you will to say he should be treated the same way Hillary WAS treated?

And the key here, as to whether it is good or not, is HOW it was done. If the FBI lied to get a warrant, it was NOT good. That means they didn’t have any real evidence and had to create something to allow them to go fishing. That is what state police in banana republics do. Having the FBI lie to violate someone’s rights is one of the biggest threats to democracy there is.

Let me ask you this one as well…since Durham is showing that the FBI lied to get FISA Warrants in 2016 and 2017 to spy on a political opponent of the sitting POTUS’ party, would you be willing to admit they are biased and that those that perpetrate those offenses should be dealt with severely?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump is toast !

RayaHope's avatar

@seawulf575 I don’t pretend to know all these stories, I do have school work to do, while school is in, and other things in my life. But I would think an important agency like the FBI would abide by the law and besides doesn’t a court of law look at all the real evidence and decide what the punishment would be if anything?

seawulf575's avatar

@RayaHope You would think that about the FBI, wouldn’t you? And that is what they are SUPPOSED to do. But they don’t and that is part of may concern with this country. What I have been listing is examples where they don’t. And all their shenanigans only really go against one party. As for the court of law looking at all the real evidence, that is part of what I am saying about the FBI. The FISA court demands evidence (supposedly) that justifies the need for warrant being requested. The FBI used the Steele Dossier as a basis for their warrants. This was a report from Christopher Steele, an ex-British agent that was discredited as a reliable source by our own intelligence agencies including the FBI. It was compiled and paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC. It relied on reports from known Russian agents. The FBI claimed they verified the material (which they didn’t). So what the FISA court saw was a report from the FBI claiming to have verified data from a reliable source making all sorts of claims about Trump. They didn’t happen to mention it was bought and paid for by Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump’s political opponent. The court can only make determinations on the information they are given…they will not run a separate investigation to verify the material.

If the FBI had, as they were supposed to as you have stated, abided by the law, they would not have accepted the Steele Dossier as anything other than wild accusations. They would have vetted the material thoroughly prior to considering it as evidence for a warrant. They would have seen it was from a discredited spy using testimony from Russian agents and would have then considered looking into the source of the Dossier more closely. They would NOT have presented it to the court as having had all these checks and balances done. And if they decided to use it after vetting they would have disclosed to the court that it was opposition research to start with.

And this is just one example of where the FBI has been weaponized to be the DNC’s own Gestapo division.

RayaHope's avatar

^^ [walking away]...

LostInParadise's avatar

What exactly did Trump intend to do with all the documents? It seems very odd that he would take them to his residence.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^It’s not odd if you consider that this orange douche is obsessed with his celebrity status and exiting the stage is fatal for him. And his bank accounts. The show must go on.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
freguarUK's avatar

I hope that before Trump passes away he will change your attitude towards him. And everyone here will grieve more than America grieved for JFK.
And @RayaHope will cry with tears:
“Pumpkin head!”.

RayaHope's avatar

@freguarUK I think anyone passing away is sad. I don’t feel ill will towards anyone as far as “wishing they were dead” That would be a terrible way to feel towards anyone whether I like them or not. I only wish he would go away and leave the political system alone.

LadyMarissa's avatar

@freguarUK Hell will freeze over before he will change MY mind!!! I don’t want to see him die, I pray every night that I die so I don’t have to wake up to his lies come the next morning!!!

JLeslie's avatar

When did he remove these supposed papers from the White House? I’m pretty sure he used to work from Mar-a-Lago while he was president, so he could have just failed to return the documents, which would be inexcusable if he isn’t allowed to keep them, I’m not excusing it.

At the same time being so upset about him living at Mar-a-Lago now or doing presidential business there while he was in office I don’t understand. Bush worked from his ranch sometimes and Trump worked from Palm Beach. If he wasn’t allowed to have that specific paperwork outside of the White House, ok I agree that is a really big problem, but having a problem with him staying or living at Mar-a-Lago is manufactured outrage by the left. If Palm Beach allows it then it’s allowed. If I owned a hotel and resort I’d like to live there too; it makes sense.

jca2's avatar

@JLeslie I haven’t heard of any outrage over him living at Mar a Lago. If it’s true, as someone wrote somewhere else, that he’s charging the Secret Service 6k per day to stay there, then that’s just terrible, in my opinion, but not surprising as he is probably very money hungry and looking to milk the system for anything he can get his orange hands on.

mazingerz88's avatar

@JLeslie Manufactured outrage of the left? Please. How about the manufactured outrage of the right over the righteous outrage of those who think trump is a pig whose secret service expenses for him and his family far exceeded others?

LadyMarissa's avatar

@JLeslie It doesn’t matter WHEN he took the docs from the WH. The facts are that the docs that he took were to NEVER leave the WH!!! He said that the docs went to Mar-a-Lago by accident on the day he moved out of the WH. So, by his own admission, he took them with him. He knew he had them once he arrived a M-a-L & he failed to say oops & return them. In Feb 2022, DOJ served him with a subpoena asking for them back. He returned 15 boxes of stuff & kept 12 other boxes that he KNEW he was NOT allowed to have at his so called residence. This is a power grab situation in his mind. He feels important having done something that he shouldn’t have done!!!

He stored them in a pool room with NO security. With the paying guests who go through that place in a year, just think about WHO could have actually seen docs that were NOT allowed to be seen by anybody other than the President. It is known that the Saudis frequently stay at M-a-L. So do many Russians. Even his own kids were NOT allowed to see those docs.

JLeslie's avatar

I saw this morning that it does look like the problem is Trump didn’t remove the paperwork from the house, it’s not so much that he had papers there while he was the president. Something about his lawyer signing papers that everything that came in the house was taken out.

@LadyMarissa You seem to think I’m ok with him having that paperwork at his house now. I’m not. My point is your emphasis on Mar-a-Lago not being his private residence is distracting. That’s where he lives. Palm Beachers who hate him made a fuss, people who hoped the vote he cast would be ilegal, because he can’t be a resident of Florida living there seem to be wrong, he can live there.

Of course I think it is a problem he has those documents at Mar-a-Lago or if it was exclusively his private home it’s a problem too. Either way. Also, that the documents weren’t secured makes it even worse.

Trump will say anything. He contradicts what he says all the time.

@jca2 I agree if he’s making money on the secret service that’s terrible. Especially, if it is an exorbitant amount. How does that usually work I wonder? The federal government always pays to house the secret service?

People keep insisting (even on this thread) it’s not Trump’s private residence. They were picketing when he got there. People think he shouldn’t be allowed to live there. I see that as all outrage.

mazingerz88's avatar

Trump is such a corrupt asshole, he deliberately dragged on and made complicated this simple process of returning those boxes because he knew it will stir up the emotions of his cult members. He would have sacrificed a baby in the Dark Ages merely to pull the same stunt off.

JLeslie's avatar

@mazingerz88 I agree it’s very likely deliberate. He’s the king of riling up the media and both political parties.

I talked to my mom two days ago and she had the same worry as me, that if Trump gets through this without any major conviction, the Republicans will use it to their advantage.

The Democrats have been saying he’s going down for 6 years. First they said he would quit. Then they talked about impeaching him over and over and over again. His taxes over and over again. Then, the Jan 6 hearings they thought that would implicate Trump on crimes (that’s ongoing). This now with the top secret paperwork is Merrick Garland, which gives me a little more hope, because it’s not just political maneuvering. Like catching a mob boss on tax evasion when you can’t get him on murder.

HP's avatar

In the end, all the nonsense over cooked up lying by the FBI or the evils of the Clintons, Hunter Biden’s laptop, witch hunting Democrats with the Department of Justice as their lapdogs—whatever claptrap you care to throw up in defense of the pig, it is now merely a question of which jurisdiction will convict him FIRST. The list of criminal accusations confronting the slimebag is exceeded only by the number of jurisdictions in hot pursuit of them. And the extent of both those lists is absolutely STAGGERING. The legal weight now arrayed against piggy is so crushing that escape is no longer even remotely feasible. And here’s hoping that the roasting of the pig is as excruciating and degrading for his fat ass as possible. Whatever punishment awaits him cannot possibly suffice for the lives he has ruined and the damage to the country he has defiled.

Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

I think he’s finished. But stay tuned.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Convictions are never guaranteed. But the point is made that the criminal pig is still a citizen the law pursues even if he had occupied the White House.

Be careful what some of us wish for. I think he wants to be “finished.” His goal is to be put in jail. To him that will be the greatest show put on Earth by Fox News.

He will have his worshipers inundate him with money. Him as the martyr for the so called conservative Republicans, white nationalists and supremacists. And he would want to see people kill and die in this show he produces and performs in.

A real evil pig this one in American history.

WhyNow's avatar

@mazingerz88 you have such good writing standards btw
“He would have sacrificed a baby” There you go, trump so evil! Why do need evidence?
Why fallow the law? We need to be quick so we can start to deprogram his
cult followers.

RayaHope's avatar

@mazingerz88 “A real evil pig this one in American history.” So true and so sad. :(

Entropy's avatar

I don’t consider it to be all that significant. His lawyers likely told him to, and (for once) Trump listened to people giving him advice.

Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

Guilty as sin.

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