Social Question

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Do you think Trump will beat the Espionage charge he could or will be facing?

Asked by SQUEEKY2 (21895points) 3 months ago

Just wondering?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

578 Answers

LadyMarissa's avatar

As much as it pains me to say…I have NO doubt that when cornered, he’ll weasel his way out of anything & everything!!! Still, I have HOPE!!!

KNOWITALL's avatar

I’m hearing so many rumors I have no idea what’s true anymore. I tend to err on the same side as @LadyMarissa.

HP's avatar

By now it is rather obvious that the legal web entangling Trump is certain to outlast whatever remains of his lifespan. His fans may justifiably claim that predictions of his downfall have been around for years, but the grinding away of his de

ragingloli's avatar

Who knows. He is a supremely slippery snake.

HP's avatar

Don’t despair Squeek. For every prosecution he might manage to weasle out of there will perpetually be 2 others of equal or greater gravity confronting him. Just the DOJ alone is so backed up with seperate investigations and prosecutions into alleged Trump crimes that he will be embroiled in them for the rest of his days. You can’t throw a dart at the map of the United States and have it stick in a jurisdictional district of the DOJ free from an investigation or prosecution involving Trump. Some have several going simultaneously. In addition, each and every state in which he sought to obstruct or overturn the election results has its own investigations and prosecutions of the worm, and Georgia at this very moment has his rust orange neck on the chopping block. His crooked businesses are going to be picked to death by governments nationwide for the taxes he’s cheated them out of for decades, and the lawsuits from those he’s swindled mount as I write this. I don’t know about you, but one of the great joys of my declining years is going to be watching his fat ass roasted to a cinder in this nation’s courts. The hoops he has to jump through are literally too numerous to count For example that comittee that Cheney vice chaired will almost surely turn its findings over to the DOJ for the fat boy’s prosecution. Trump’s current difficulties are but the tip of the legal iceburg awaiting him.

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flutherother's avatar

He has a charge sheet as long as my arm and he hasn’t even been charged with his most outrageous crime: impersonating the President of the United States.

LadyMarissa's avatar

What gives me hope is that I can remember a former Mafia figure…The Teflon Don… who seemingly couldn’t be stopped. Well, he was 52 y/o when he was found guilty & sentenced to jail. You could have knocked the whole world over with a feather when the guilty verdict was read out loud!!! I still have FAITH in our system doing the job it was set up to do & I’m just waiting to hear that glorious word…GUILTY!!!

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump Organization CFO pleads guilty to 15 tax fraud charges, will be required to testify whoopee ! Another trip to court !
“I didn’t know what my CFO was doing with Trump Org is not going to make it !

Company tax evasion will probably include CEO also known as “Tangerine TURD” !

Zaku's avatar

I think he’ll eventually be found guilty.

WhyNow's avatar

Trump was charged with espionage? I missed it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@WhyNow Did you read the question?

WhyNow's avatar

^^ Sorry sorry… its just that if propose a ‘what if’ or ‘suppose’ I get all kinds of grief.
I wanna be nice! You mean caught spying for… the Russians and Putin?

HP's avatar

At this point you’d have a tough time finding a crime of which Trump remains to be accused.

ragingloli's avatar

Jaywalking, because he does not walk. He takes a chauffeured limousine to drive to his gold encrusted toilet, and has a servant scoop out his shit with a golden spoon, both because he is lazy, and lacks the abdominal strength to squeeze out the doody himself, caused by a myriad of genetic defects and decades of physical deterioration. Does not wipe either, because that would be gay.

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seawulf575's avatar

Absolutely. They have tried since he first announced his initial candidacy to prove he was working as a foreign agent. It has all been lies leveled against him and spread by a complicit media. To charge him under the espionage act, they would have to determine first if he had classified materials that threatened the national defense. As POTUS he has the unilateral ability to declassify anything he wants so it would be very confusing first off to determine if he had materials like this.

Secondly, they would have to show he had intent that he intended to use it to harm the US or to advantage a foreign nation.

So you have to build a HUGE case against him that goes beyond reasonable doubt. Unless you have all radical Dems running the courts, it would never fly. This is just another example of the Dems creating innuendo and wild claims to try smearing Trump and to cast doubt on him.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575. You are right the president can declassify documents,BU T there is a procedure he couldn’t just declare them declassified,and even the President couldn’t declassify weapons documents,which he had at his home, now I must ask you why did he have all these documents at his home now that he is no longer President?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

After saying he gave them all back the first time he was asked to surrender them?
Why did he still have so many?

HP's avatar

I almost feel sorry for conservatives forced to pretend there is no basis for the deluge of legal nightmares enveloping the pig. This one from the morass in particular. Remember all that rightwing noise about Hillary’s emails and how her ignorance of internet security protocols were no excuse? @SQUEEKY2 And regardless of what a President might declassify, there isn’t jack shit that an EX PRESIDENT is allowed to declassify or declare his personal property. What is galling about this particular case from the ocean of Trump prosecutions is that in this one the “radical dems” bent over backwards attempting to accommodate the criminal dummy. EVERYBODY told the obstinate fool, including HIS OWN lawyers, advisors—even the people jailed and ruined through dealing with him that the truckload of legal documents was NOT his personal property. You know what? Any conservative that appears here and STILL hasn’t learned the lesson regarding Trump has missed the truth obvious much earlier in the Trump game to some of the staunchest and most dedicated conservatives in existence. The saga of Trump can be summed up in the CONSERVATIVE battle cry of exasperation——FKN MORON! Too bad the leftist courts won’t allow it as a legal defense.

WhyNow's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 ‘weapons documents,which he had at his home’ truly horrible!
Where did you see that? I also want to denounce him.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@WhyNow Those were in the boxes and boxes of Top Secret and SCI !

HP's avatar

It’s nearly unbelievable. You couldn’t invent anyone so dense.

HP's avatar

No wonder he can no longer find a competent lawyer to defend him. By now, the entire profession (just as most people here) has come to recognize the only reward to defending him is the guarantee that he will make you look like a fool as obtuse as himself. In fact at this point you can actually gauge whether an attorney (or anyone else) is worth a shit on their willingness to leap to his defense.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 So what is the procedure for declassifying information for the President? I’ve heard that a number of times, but no one can actually tell me what that procedure is. And if there is a procedure, then at worst Trump is in violation of that procedure.

As to why he had these documents? Maybe it showed corruption in the Biden administration. Maybe it showed corruption in the FBI. Maybe it was for his memoirs. There are any number of things it could be. Why does it have to be nefarious?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I don’t know the exact procedure, I do know if the President wants a document declassified he states so then it has to go before others there might be some redaction put in then stamped declassified.
The President just doesn’t deem it declassified or wave a magic wand over it.
Also the President does NOT have the power to declassify documents on weapons, and according to the news it sounded like there was weapon documents there as well.
I know this will shock you but the corruption isn’t the Biden office it’s coming from the Trump camp, and the FBI was just doing their job,they never would have had to go the search warrant way if he had just handed over ALL the documents the first time.
Now quickly deflect to crooked Hillary, or Hunter,I know it’s Obama’s fault Trump had all these classified documents.
Your Don Father is in a lot of shit for having these documents especially since he is no longer the President.
You can point the finger at the corrupt democrats,or the FBI but Trump has brought this on himself and you just can’t handle that fact.

HP's avatar

It will all play out in the radical leftist courts. The entire witch hunt with the leftist DOJ spearheaded by that tool of the left—the FBI, America’s KGB. The entire case, just as the thousands of other lawsuits and prosecutions against Trump are about made up accusations from leftists. The fact that the victim was in possession of hundreds of thousands of documents deemed the property of the national archives, with classified items among them deemed top secret is irrelevant. The fact that he was advised of ALL of these facts by EVERYONE involved on several occasions—that too is somehow irrelevant. The fact that he was given every opportunity to turn over the items which were repeatedly requested but apparently refused—that doesn’t matter either. The fact that his stupid ass does not appreciate that a dummy of his magnitude with top secret documents lying around unsecured in his basement might be a rather open and shut violation of the espionage act—that again doesn’t matter. I’m sure he will be absolved of any wrongdoing and receive the apology from the vicious leftists he deserves.

.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 the POTUS DOES have the authority to declassify documents on weapons. It is in his constitutional duties to be able to classify or declassify materials. And he can do it directly…he doesn’t need to go through any other agency. TYPICALLY a POTUS will notify the affected agency as a courtesy, but it is not required. But from a legal aspect, there is no law out there that overrides the POTUS duties or authorities. The Atomic Energy Act discusses that documents that talk about how to make a nuclear weapon or how to enrich uranium are to be listed as “restricted” which is not the same as “classified”.

LadyMarissa's avatar

TS/SCI docs are NOT restricted…they ARE Classified at the highest level!!! There ARE certain REQUIRED steps to declassify docs & he sidestepped every one of them!!! The President has NEVER had absolute power over the office…there are & ALWAYS have been checks & balances to STOP that kind of power.

He classifies Obama as the devil every time he opens his mouth; but, it is OK for him to do it because Obama did it. Once again, he knew what he was doing was WRONG…he just did NOT care!!!

Even his OWN inner circle told him that he couldn’t keep them. His response…“They are not theirs…They are MINE!!!” That shows that he knew what he was doing & was disagreeing with the requirements. He bragged that he was going to be taking them with him when he left office. He planned on using this to further disrupt this country BEFORE walking away from the office!!!

I can understand his desire to become an all powerful leader as that’s been his goal from the time he was a young boy. What I find hard to understand are those who swore an oath to protect this country at ALL cost & use their service as a way to say “I’m special so you are to respect me” & are willing to become a traitor on the whim of a crazy man!!!

seawulf575's avatar

@LadyMarissa And the law is clear…the POTUS can declassify documents. The only law that really applies has to do, as I mentioned before, with the creation of a nuclear weapon or the enrichment of fuel…and those are restricted. Like it or not, trying to prove something on the Espionage Act will be almost impossible. At least in a fair court. If all they are going to use is innuendo or accusation as proof without any factual backing, sure they could convict him.

Face it, their only goal is to try keeping him from running again in 2024. There is no actual fear he did anything wrong.

HP's avatar

@LadyMarissa Let’s see if the pig can find an attorney who will stand in front of a judge and explain that a President can declassify documents through simply throwing them in his basement and claiming them his. That is exactly the caliber of lawyer left for him to choose. And I look forward to this one. And there is the little item of declassified or not, the documents belong to the COUNTRY, not the pig.

Zaku's avatar

@seawulf575 Why does it have to be nefarious? Could be Trump’s TOP SECRET memoirs? You heard there was a search warrant based on probable cause to suspect crime warranting the search, signed by a judge, and that the FBI, who has explained that they would only do this under extreme circumstances, right?

The FBI has no interest in interfering in politics. It’s even still headed by one of the scumbag Trump’s former appointments.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump thinks he is still on The Apprentice. . . “you’re fired ! ! ”

That doesn’t work with Top Secret weapons documents, he’ll find out.

His ass is TOAST ! IMO

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LadyMarissa's avatar

@seawulf575 Believe what you like, but I know that you are misinformed. I also know that I can do my best to inform you until the day that I die & you will still argue that you are correct. Sometimes I think that you just enjoy arguing…well I don’t & you’re NOT going to change my mind nor my vote…ENJOY your day as I’m off to ENJOY mine!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Trump is a civilian in possession of highly classified US documents and you still see no wrong, just the evil left trying to get your hero.
You wave off so he didn’t follow full procedure of declassification no big deal, yet you lose your mind over Hillary not following procedure by not using the proper server, or Hunter getting a high paying job he had no experience for.
You want the FBI defunded because they simply served a search warrant on your hero,I remember you again losing your mind when people were screaming defund the police over all the shooting of unarmed black men.
GUESS WHAT the world aint out to get Trump, just hold him accountable for his crimes and about fucking time.

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
There is a Florida republican running for office there, proposing to make it legal for any Floridian to kill Federal agents.

Under my plan, all Floridians will have permission to shoot FBI, IRS, ATF and all other feds ON SIGHT!

Look how quickly the “thin blue line” is crossed, how swiftly “blue lives matter” no longer for those “law and order” republicans. All it takes, is for the law to come for them, and not just their political and social enemies.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@ragingloli I saw something about that but dismissed it as sarcasm but knowing the frightwingers these days that probably is true.
The Party of law and order unless it gets in their way of taking over the world then it’s thrown over board.

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seawulf575's avatar

@Zaku ” You heard there was a search warrant based on probable cause to suspect crime warranting the search, signed by a judge, and that the FBI, who has explained that they would only do this under extreme circumstances, right?” Yes, I’ve heard that. And I heard that AG Garland wanted to release the search warrant to the public but was going to give Trump the final okay on that. That is political. And the proof of it? The fact he fought against airing the affidavit that was used to present to the judge/court to get that warrant. Sounds so much like the affidavits that were presented to the FISA courts when Trump was a candidate. And those came out and were found to be fraudulent…knowingly fraudulent. But you know that, right?

seawulf575's avatar

@LadyMarissa I’m the one that doesn’t take things at face value. I question. And when your only support for your claims is something along the lines of “it’s gotta be true!” or “Everyone knows that” I am still left with questions.

You made claims about secured documents and how they are supposed to be declassified. What is your proof of your claims? CNN? Show me the evidence. That is really all I ever ask and it seems to be exactly what those that want to inform me cannot or will not actually provide. I’m the one that has shown that the Atomic Energy Act has something close to a process, but it only applies to restricted documents. And legally, restricted is not classified. So while I may be misinformed, I’m the only one actually doing the homework on this page.

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli While I will agree that fool that planned to attack the FBI office should be held accountable, where has your outrage been when the left was screaming for defunding the police and celebrating the assassination of police officers across the country? Honoring the killers and vilifying the dead?

WhyNow's avatar

Bottom line for me about the M-A-L raid. It was armed show of force by the ‘ruling’
party against a political rival.

HP's avatar

That’s right. Once again, law enforcement and the very government itself is in cahoots with the radical left to persecute “Mr. Clean”. It reminds me of the tune: “grits ain’t groceries, eggs ain’t poultry and Mona Lisa was a man”.

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Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

Hard to say at this juncture. He hasn’t made any friends outside of his cult (I view him as the Jim Jones of politics), but then again the justice system is a joke and really never applied to the rich and powerful. I mean, it’s not like he’s some guy from the Hood who got caught (gasp!) with a lid of marijuana. Justice may be blind, but even she has to set her priorities.

ragingloli's avatar

@seawulf575
Listen, baby, the only judgement I made is about the republican hypocrisy, not the anti cop stance itself.
As far as that is concerned: ACAB.

seawulf575's avatar

ACAB. So you really don’t care that someone was attacking the FBI, you just want to find some way to slam Repubs. Got it.

ragingloli's avatar

Evil must be opposed, Schnuckiputz.

seawulf575's avatar

Ahhh….but who decides what is evil? Apparently to you, evil only exists if it is against the progressive policies and those that support them. When people ambush and kill cops, you are okay with that because you see cops as evil. I hope you never need a cop.

ragingloli's avatar

You are the kind of guy who would have been upset at the French resistance.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Hmmmm…when I needed a cop, 45’s cult followers were out beating them to death with flag poles. I guess when it’s OK to kill a cop is subjective!!!

HP's avatar

The courts will decide what’s evil. Let the worm squirm.

WhyNow's avatar

We have reached the thought-terminating cliché (wiki) part of this argument.
The labels are: evil, fascists, right wingers,
parents at school board meetings, trump cultists, patriots, white nationalists,
white supremacists, white people! On and on it goes.

How can we discuss anything with such people as above?

These labels are attached to anyone who simply disagrees. Disagreement
means no more arguments, you have revealed yourself.

HP's avatar

The arguments will be settled in the courts. There are a LOT of them in a LOT of courts, and thus far, things look grim for the pig as they most certainly should.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@HP His family has turned their backs to him!

I wonder who the insider at Mar-A-Lago gave the info to DOJ? -

Could her initials be Melania Trump ?

HP's avatar

Did you notice that die hard Trumpers are preparing in advance for the tidal wave of upcoming convictions of the pig? In compliance with the “nothing is ever his fault” narrative that has put anyone with any sense in league with radical Democrats, there is already talk about leftist socialist courts in line with the Democrats witch hunting FBI, DOJ, MSM—you know the list and its endless. Basically, anyone not yet declared legally insane is a tool of the Democrats.

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SQUEEKY2's avatar

Trumpists are so blind to his wrong doings, they could honestly see him raping their mothers and they would blame their mothers.
Like not following procedures of declassifying documents, like well he has the power to declassify so he didn’t follow procedure, what’s the big deal.
When a democrat doesn’t follow procedure they should get the death penalty.

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HP's avatar

ANYONE is blamed rather than guess who?

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SQUEEKY2's avatar

I don’t think much can be done,they refuse to believe Trump can do no wrong,and anything bad is just from the evil left that just want to witch hunt him.

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli “You are the kind of guy who would have been upset at the French resistance.” Nope. But I wouldn’t support murder either. That is what you are trying to avoid condemning. You must be the kind of guy that would have been wearing a brown shirt in your country back around 1938. You know…the kind that believes that any action is acceptable providing it supports your goals?

ragingloli's avatar

@seawulf575
Funny. brown shirts fit your side the most, together with your unshakable faith in your orange Führer.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Why don’t you quote from Trump’s Truth Social ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Your sources seem to be FRIGHT WINGER hang-outs !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Aw gee @seawulf575 you cited extreme fright wing sites so I guess that makes it gospel?

LadyMarissa's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Murder is ONLY OK when the right does it!!!

45 said that he could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue & shoot somebody & get away with it. It appears that he was correct!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I agree @LadyMarissa I think that was the only thing Trump ever said that was the truth.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie wasn’t it you that started the uber biased citations? Funny how when you cite a loony left article it is okay but if anyone uses a ridiculously right wing citation it isn’t. I PURPOSELY cited those to show you exactly how foolish you are.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Of course not. But where was your outrage when an uber-left citation was used? That was gospel?

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SQUEEKY2's avatar

Can I ask, why is it when Trump is accused of a crime it’s just the evil left on a witch hunt.
When anyone on the left is accused of a crime it’s just a criminal being brought to justce?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Trump tried to say Obama left office with a truck load of documents as well go get him, except the National Archives said not true.

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
Does not matter that his lies were immediately debunked.
His followers have already internalised the lie, and will just ignore any evidence to the contrary, if their bubble even exposes them to it.

HP's avatar

It’s just too ridiculous. I mean the man is absolutely hopeless. The people concocting excuses for his behavior: the poor souls here, his attorneys, FOX—it doesn’t matter; the only dependable thing any of them can rely on is that regardlessof whatever alibi you invent for him, the fool himself will turn around and say something STUPID and blatantly UNTRUE to destroy it. In fact the catalog of lies by now is so immense, that if the fool says good morning, anyone within earshot reactively checks their watch. You wanna know the ironclad defense for Trump for which the evidence is actually beyond refutation? It’s a plea of mental incompetence. Where is a prosecutor going to find an expert psychiatrist who will testify under oath that Trump is sane?

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seawulf575's avatar

Trump Derangement Syndrome is alive and well.

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Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump Derangement Syndrome i s that when he lies when he doesn’t have to 400 times a week ?

Asking for a friend ! ! !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And there it is, anything said about the Don Father that isn’t in praise or worship is classed derangement ,or just pure hatred .
Trump can make fun of handicapped people, incite a riot, take home top secret documents after he is no longer the President and all is good.
Just don’t speak out on it or you’re a hater.

ragingloli's avatar

These people would have harped on about “Hitler Derangement Syndrome” right until the moment he blew his brains out.
They would have called the Holocaust “fake news”.
And they would have called the Nuremberg trials, and Mossad going after escaped Nazi War criminals, “politically motivated witch hunts”.

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flutherother's avatar

“Trump Derangement Syndrome” So you would have to be deranged to hold Trump to account? I don’t hate the guy, he is Trump, he has charisma but he shouldn’t have been allowed within a thousand miles of the White House.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother Deranged to hold Trump accountable? Not at all. But when the slathering starts at the mere mention of his name, that IS deranged. You don’t seem to get there as quick as some.

I have stated numerous times that I am FOR honesty and fairness. And since Trump put his hat in the ring, we haven’t seen it….from the Left or from the media. Yet no matter how horrible they act, those on the left forgive them because it must be true…it’s TRUMP! That is Deranged. Not to mention dangerous.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575. If the left media is all lies about your hero how come he hasn’t sued their ass off for defamation,or slander??

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SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 I am going to agree with news sources should be sued if they broadcast outright lies, and that goes for right and left sources.

HP's avatar

That has to be the funniest thing I’ve read this week. A lawyer so fkn dumb that he will admit to a publication that he is willing to sue ANYONE for reporting that Trump is a liar. I mean, can you believe that? If “I won the election” isn’t the absolute definition of the BIG lie, NOTHING is. Trump can only wish he were as smart as Hitler. The network actually paid the pig a compliment if it compared him to Hitler.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “I am going to agree with news sources should be sued if they broadcast outright lies, and that goes for right and left sources.” Amen, brother.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Was that one of Social Security Disability lawyers or did you get hit by a tractor trailer? ? Just an ambulance chaser

HI quality, NOT !

45 will probably stiff the lawyer too!

HP's avatar

The tragedy is that no judge is going to allow this nonsense to appear in his courtroom. I would pay to be in the chambers of the judge who laughs this silly shit out of his court. The idiot destroying his own credibility with the mere prospect of a defamation suit claiming Trump’s “good name”
besmirched should be disbarred on the spot as an inexcusable embarrassment to his profession. This is just another in the series of truly tasteless jokes that define our piggy.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

His last two were not even authorized to practice law in Florida where they Tangerine one is trying to fight the boxes being taken . . . three bumbling idiots.

HP's avatar

You too are being too kind this guy would have to be promoted to ambulance chaser. Just for fun, I think I’ll sue the grass for growing green.

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Tropical_Willie's avatar

Bet ya they were from New Jersey and took $125,000 CASH @HP !

HP's avatar

@WhyNow make fun of me all you want. Sensitivity is not exactly my strong suit. Now about your boy. Making fun of HIM is just TOO easy. He’s the gift that just keeps on giving. Just watch. He’ll be back playing the simpleton fool before dawn. Good night.

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HP's avatar

I turned on the tv this morning to see today’s Trump fkup. He reminds me of those vitamins my grandma swallowed religiously. His fkups are usually at least one a day. But today I apparently drew a blank. (but it’s still early) His fat ass probably doesn’t roll out of bed before noon.

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ragingloli's avatar

Trump’s Bad Defenses and Bad Lawyering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1X31K-0bYA

SQUEEKY2's avatar

OH @seawulf575 see @ragingloli link above it does explain the procedure of declassifying documents a step that the Don Father didn’t take.
You freaked at Hillary not following the proper procedure regarding the email thing ,but blow off Trump not following procedure as no big deal, can you explain why?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Why do you think Tangerine Turd was so so upset with the redacted document (Names and addresses crossed out) because he couldn’t send the Proud Boys to kill or intimidate witnesses from testifying ? ? ?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

If you can’t do the time – - – DON“T DO THE CRIME !

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “You freaked at Hillary not following the proper procedure regarding the email thing ,but blow off Trump not following procedure as no big deal, can you explain why?” That is an interesting question. EVERY time I have said Hillary did the exact same thing, you have come to her defense, not wanted to talk about it, not wanted to address how her case was handled…nothing. In fact you (and others) will accuse me of deflecting away from Trump. So now you are using Hillary as a deflection TO Trump. Ok, let’s go there. Maybe you are finally willing to discuss it.

When discussing Hillary, I have cited laws including links to them to show how she broke the law. Not a single one of you cared. In fact, when the FBI (Comey) came out with his excuse that she was Extremely Careless (after having nixed Grossly Negligent because Gross Negligence was actual wording from the law and said that was NOT an excuse) and didn’t mean to handle those incorrectly you all swarmed on that and used it as an excuse for why she was innocent and not worth prosecuting. Let me remind you that Trump supposedly had 300 documents that were labeled as being classified to one degree or another. Hillary had almost 3000. And as for storage, her server was not an approved location, and one SHE KNEW wasn’t supposed to be used for business purposes. Neither was Anthony Weiner’s laptop. AND, since we know Hillary wasn’t sending them to his laptop, that means it was Huma Abedein who REALLY had no right to be handling or transmitting this material. Yet THAT was okay by all of you as well. She didn’t MEAN to do it so there is no crime. Let’s be clear…that is exactly what you all chanted to avoid saying Hillary broke the law and should be prosecuted.

But now, it is supposedly the exact same crime but this time with Trump as the accused. Suddenly it is worth prosecuting under the Espionage Act. Because he had classified materials he wasn’t supposed to have, in a place he wasn’t suppose to have them. Huh. Seems contradictory, doesn’t it? I have stated that I have always said that if Trump broke the law that he should be prosecuted…just like everyone else. But you have all accepted the defenses Hillary (and Huma) put forth as being okay so no crime was committed. So BY YOUR OWN VIEWS, Trump should not be prosecuted either.

Did I miss anything? There are only 2 differences between the two cases are the accused person and the fact that one of them actually has the right to declassify material. As far as the 2 accused go, you are okay with one but want to push on the other for prosecution. That difference is Trump Derangement Syndrome going strong. You guys cannot even see how paradoxical your views are. And you are certainly unable to admit there is even a disparity.

As for the case where one of the people has the right to declassify material…Hillary didn’t have it. Trump, on the other hand DID have the right to do so. And despite the YouTube video @ragingloli puts forth and your frantic beliefs that it is true, it isn’t. Here is an interesting review of the claims of Trump sharing classified materials with the Russian Ambassador back in 2017. This was the first time the Dems were claiming his crimes concerning classified materials. In this review, they come to the conclusion over and over again that the POTUS can declassify whatever materials he wants and is not bound by any given procedure. He just has to let it be known he is declassifying it, which was done. Page 19 of the redacted Affidavit admits this was done. They even cite an interview given by Kash Patel, Trump’s counsel at the time, that stated that he did indeed declassify the material. So the FBI KNEW it was declassified.

So…Hillary broke the law and didn’t have the authority to do so…and that was okay with you. Trump did NOT break the law since he had the authority to declassify materials…which he did…and you are NOT okay with that.

HP's avatar

Here’s what Hillary did NOT do. When she was notified that she was in violation of the law, she did not deny that she was in violation and proceed for a year in violation of those laws. Moreover, the DOJ was not required to seize her classified materials after a year of repeated requests were ignored and lies told claiming the documents properly relinquished. In addition, Hillary was not fool enough to believe that she might get off the hook through having Obama announce that he had secretly and unannounced declassified her restricted materials prior to the uproar.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP of course she denied she was in violation. She claimed there were NO classified materials in her e-mails. She didn’t give the FBI access to her emails, SHE made the decision what they could and couldn’t see. She destroyed 30,000 emails even though they had asked to see them. She claimed she was allowed to do business on her personal server because others had done it before. She refused to let the FBI see her servers and hired her own company that claimed there was nothing on there and then destroyed the evidence further so NO ONE could later go back to look. AND she did proceed for more than a year in violation of the laws you say she never denied being in violation of. She just knew no one would ever do anything to her.

Imagine if Trump had refused to let anyone look at the paperwork. Imagine if the FBI had done a raid on Hillary instead of repeatedly asking her for the server. Imagine, imagine, imagine.

But more importantly, here you are again, defending the treatment of Hillary for being in violation of the EXACT SAME LAWS you want to see Trump hang for. So tell me, was Hillary guilty of violating the classified materials laws or not?

HP's avatar

No one has yet to specify personal emails equivalent to classified documents. I don’t defend her behavior, nor do I deny that she is wrong. What I deny emphatically is that her case is in any way equivalent in either its gravity or clear cut criminality as that of the pig.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

WHATABOUT . . . . . !

HP's avatar

Exactly! It apparently works for some dummies. Let’s see if it works in the courts.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok @seawulf575 According to that lawyer when a document is declassified it can be viewed by anyone,would you want anyone to view the documents an ex president was keeping at his home?

seawulf575's avatar

@HP so if she did wrong, she lost control of classified materials, some as high as Top Secret. And that is just in what she gave the FBI. As for personal emails, we have no idea what was in those emails. It could have ALL been classified materials or it could have all personal information. That is the point. The accused was allowed to decide what the FBI could and couldn’t see. If Trump did that…went through and decided what was and wasn’t important for the FBI, would you be okay with that? The obvious answer is: you wouldn’t be okay with it. And the FBI would never give Trump the leeway to decide what was or wasn’t important to their investigation. So you are right…between the two cases they are not equivalent in either the gravity of the FBI investigations or of the clear cut criminality of them.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Maybe you want to direct that WHATABOUT to @SQUEEKY2 since he is the one that opened this side of the discussion.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You know? That is a really good question too! You’re asking good ones now. But are you thinking of the answers? Would you want anyone to view the documents Trump declassified? I don’t think you can answer, nor can I. Because the only ones we have that are saying ANYTHING is the FBI and the DoJ. But they are not being specific. Here’s a thought: what if the papers he took were briefing papers that discussed that the Covid response was designed to manipulate the populace? What if it showed the hazards of the vaccines that were being disguised? What if it showed that China not only knew about the virus but worked with entities inside the US to release it to the world? ALL of those could be classified and considered secret and/or top secret. Would you want anyone to see documents like that? What if it was all documents that exposed massive corruption inside the DoJ and the FBI? Would you want those exposed? Or it could have been documents that showed Trump was guilty as sin of 8 different felonies. Think that should be released to just anyone?

You have created, in your mind, the idea that he has launch codes or military secrets that he wants to sell to China. And that is what the leftist media has been hinting at. But you really don’t know what is on ANY of those documents. And in the end, the way the system works is that if the POTUS declares something declassified, it is. It doesn’t matter what you think or what I think. If it was launch codes or military secrets, I’d think he was a complete ignoramus. If it was proof of corruption inside the government, I’d think he was probably one of the best presidents we’ve had in a long, long time.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh shit he sure is a hero in your eyes, and you sure trust him over the FBI who’s top guy he personally appointed, or the DO J, if Trump had the type of documents you are describing he would be screaming that from the rooftops and you know it.
Declassified documents are stamped Declassified with most times a lot of redaction added so anyone can view them you know that as well,the news has been saying these documents are still stamped classified, secret, and top secret,if they were declassified they would have been stamped so, not your heroes word saying he verbally claimed them so.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 If the POTUS declassifies something, it is declassified. The classification markers may or may not be marked through. But the point is…you don’t know what is in those documents any more than anyone else. According to Kash Patel, Trump said he wanted to release those documents because he felt the American public had the right to know what was in them. Now as much as you hate Trump, you might be easily convinced it was launch codes or some such nonsense. But I don’t view Trump the same way you do. I find him pompous and annoying and overbearing and overweight. But he has done good things for this country despite the opposition of the Dems, the media, and the deep state. So I don’t believe he would release something of military importance. More likely it exposes corruption. But I don’t know any more than you do.

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
The video also describes the instance when the Orangutan “declassified” documents pertaining to Hillary Clinton over Twitter, so all the media outlets naturally wanted those documents.
His own patsies came out stating just because the Orangutan declares documents declassified, does not make them declassified.
But now somehow it is different.
The Orangutan just makes shit up as he goes along.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So Trump while President could declare any classified document declassified by just verbally doing so.
BULL SHIT!! while a sitting President can declassify documents a procedure must be met, just like the email thing.
And any document still stamped top secret, is still that until it’s stamped declassified.

ragingloli's avatar

Not to mention that in regards to the espionage act, it matters diddly squat if the documents are classified or not. They are government property, and the Orangutan stole them, refused to return them, and lied about having returned all of them when he returned some of them after being pestered.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh and anyone in possession of these documents outside the National Archives is commiting a crime.
That includes ex presidents.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Unfortunately, it is not bullshit. The POTUS is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces and needs the ability to take actions he sees as fit. Declassification of materials falls into that. There are, of course, limitations but not so much when it comes to declassification of documents. He doesn’t have to show just cause, there is no Congressional oversight, he is not bound by bureaucracy. He is allowed to do as he wants with documentation. I know you don’t like it because it takes away a lot of the angst generated by his possession of these documents.

But interestingly, your claim about documents goes right back to Hillary. so you are now saying that Hillary committed crimes?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So @seawulf575 if these documents are stamped declassified then he isn’t in possession of highly classified documents ,but still in possession of GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS that an ex president should not be in possession of.
BUT YOU also fail to see your hero IS NOT PRESIDENT now but a civilian in possession of GOVERNMENT documents that should be in the National Archives NOT the basement of a golf resort in Florida.

LadyMarissa's avatar

The one thing that us GUARANTEED is that IF the fidiot had records proving corruption in the government, he would have had that on FOX every freakin night for the last year & a half!!! That is…UNLESS the proof was that HE was the one being corrupt!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

EXACTLY @LadyMarissa any document that would have made him look good he would be screaming it 24/7 on any news platform that would let him.
Just like if he had proof of left wing corruption he would be screaming that as well.

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
Just like he had “proof” of Obama being born in Kenya, and somehow never released anything.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

But @ragingloli His base sure believed all that shit.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You know his base scares me more than The Don Father ever did,hell they tried to over throw the government for him,truly freaky shit.

HP's avatar

Again we will hear in court whether an ex President can willy nilly carry off classified documents of his choosing along with the LEGALLY MANDATED property of the country and its archives, then toss the loot in his basement on the simple declaration “it’s mine”. I really am looking forward to the upcoming beating this unfathomable idiot is going to rain down upon himself. No lawyer alive of ANY competence will go near him and his runaway mouth. The man is a lunatic and the living laboratory on the limits (if any) to the gullibility of the American voter

SQUEEKY2's avatar

It will be interesting to see what the courts make of all this, but knowing how many fright wing judges he appointed he probably will beat this as well, his real down fall might be his tax evasion in New York.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “if these documents are stamped declassified then he isn’t in possession of highly classified documents ,but still in possession of GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS that an ex president should not be in possession of.” So what you are saying is that he is guilty of having declassified materials? Is that like having a library book too long? And this leads to the Espionage Act how, exactly?

And, once again, the POTUS does not have to get documents “stamped” declassified before they are. AND…once again, you are taking it back to Hillary. So Hillary was in control classified materials, they were not controlled, and she (and Huma) had shared them all over the internet. They were government documents that she was not supposed to be in possession of. So you are now saying that Hillary should have been prosecuted?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

IF ,IF,IF,IF Lets see what the courts decide about your hero. Don’t you ever get tired of deflecting?
I know you think Hillary should have received the death penalty, but she didn’t and you think a great injustice was done,fuck how many times did your hero bring her and her emails up ,couple a hundred at least while he was President and why didn’t he push for more into the email thing because it was a done thing by then but it’s worth to keep bringing it up whenever your hero is in trouble fuck you fright wingers treat like a get out of jail free card.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~So the notes on the weapons system document, in his handwriting say, ”. .these should go to Kim Jong-un.”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

As long as his check clears.^^^^^^^^

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I think he has to pay cash now and his lawyers are doing what he tells them to do . . . remember Rudolph William Louis Giuliani? I think he lost his law license.

These bozos will be next !!

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I find it amusing that YOU brought up Hillary and then say I am deflecting. That is typical. And that claim comes up every time I show you guys that Hillary broke the law and was let off because of the biased FBI. And now we have a case with Trump of the EXACT same nature…and YOU brought Hillary into the discussion. And as soon as I have gotten you to the point that you really can’t argue that the FBI is biased, you suddenly accuse me of deflection.

Another problem with the deflection claim: precedence. Hillary absolutely applies because the cases are identical with the only exception that Trump had the ability to declassify materials. In ANY legal case, precedence can be used to show how the state dealt with similar cases. But again, you brought it up for exactly that reason. You were trying to show precedence of how I felt about Hillary. But your claim opens up that door and you don’t like it when I step through because it shoots holes in your beliefs and claims about Trump.

As for why Trump didn’t push more? He did. But the corruption in DC had already rewritten law (figuratively) to let her off. He had no options. But one of the things he did do was to fire Comey and you guys on the left went crazy. Remember? Because Russia, Russia, Russia was in full bloom at that point. You all screamed “abuse of power!”. And now we are finding THAT was a scam too. Because the FBI faked and withheld information from the FISA courts so they could spy on a political opponent to the Democrats and the Deep State. Funny how we are back to suspect behavior from the FBI against Trump and we get back to the point of what they submitted to the FISA courts and it is all redacted. Convenient, isn’t it?

JLeslie's avatar

Hillary Clinton’s email. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-emails-2016-server-state-department-fbi-214307/

It doesn’t sound like she was trying to hold into topic secret documents for her personal files.

HP's avatar

@JLeslie that is one fantastic article. It’s long winded by necessity. But it explains EXACTLY why the FBI believed no case could be made against Clinton other than she didn’t know a computer from a hole in the ground, and that the State Department itself was a tech backwater. And that clearly was not her fault. The article also CLEARLY states that Clinton didn’t deliberately destroy her emails. She was so lame computer wise, SHE DIDN’T EVEN KNOW HOW TO DESTROY THEM, let alone erase a server. Her old emails simply vanished every time she switched antique blackberrys or changed plans. Those of you who didn’t read this, should invest the time. It’s well worth it. Because this bullshit about Hillary getting a pass is going to sure as shit pop up again as it has for the past 10 years.

HP's avatar

@JLeslie I cannot thank you enough for driving the final nail into our endless Hillary criminal email coffin.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@HP Doesn’t matter you will never convince die hard Trumpers,such as the one one this thread that it wasn’t the evil left that simply gave her a get out jail free card, and is now endlessly witch hunting their hero for simply having highly classified Government documents at his home, and again it doesn’t matter that they were not stamped declassified,because he waved his little hands over them and deemed them declassified,see the misunderstanding?
You have to remember left is evil and bad, right is good and wonderful after all if it wasn’t for the wonderful right who would take care of all the hard done by rich folks?

JLeslie's avatar

You’re welcome.

HP's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 and he didn’t bother to wave his wee litlle hands until a year and a half out of office and after being caught once again in another crime.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@HP that he didn’t have the power to declassify, but his loyal lap dogs think he did.

HP's avatar

It is truly astonishing. There is someone here arguing that the mere act of abscounding with the materials automatically declassifies them. “They’re mine”.

LadyMarissa's avatar

@HP That’s the EXACT words that he used when he REFUSED to return them…they’re mine & they can’t have them back.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Hey to all that think Hillary should have received the death penalty for her Email scandal should all read @JLeslie link 8 posts up, doesn’t make her out to be so evil as the fright wingers make her out to be.
Trump is indeed more guilty of having highly classified documents in his home after he is NO LONGER PRESIDENT!

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie That link is interesting. What it says, in summation, is that there were rules that Hillary found inconvenient so she set up a system that met her needs, regardless of what the rules were. Previous individuals in her position had personal servers…that is 100% true. And they used those servers for personal use, keeping the servers provided by the government, that had all the security and backup capabilities required, for the business. But Hillary didn’t like that because she wanted to use a Blackberry. So she violated numerous rules just to satisfy her desires. In effect, she is above the rules. She refused to follow the rules and demanded that others bend them to accommodate her wishes.

In the end, there are rules for how to handle classified materials. She opted not to follow those and ended up losing control of many items. Classified materials were in all sorts of places they weren’t supposed to be in. They claimed she was “extremely careless” in her handling of the materials, but didn’t “mean to” lose control of the materials. The laws, on the other hand state that gross negligence in the handling of classified materials is NOT an excuse for violating the law. So even the excuses used for her are not realistic.

Not to mention the optics. Here she is, Secretary of State, privy to most of the highest classified materials there are, and she can’t be bothered to actually abide by the rules. And let’s face it…Classified materials ending up on Anthony Weiner’s laptop next to his porn and his texts with underaged girls. Now tell me…how is that acceptable?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You’re right @seawulf575 Hillary is guilty
of not following procedure by not using the Government server that was slow and cumbersome,and guilty of losing emails when she switched devices although she wasn’t aware of losing them at the time.
But in the end she had less highly classified emails, then your hero did in his basement,and remember her emails even though on the wrong server were encrypted,so anyone that could access them most likely couldn’t read them, unlike the documents your hero had that were GOVERNMENT property in his private home.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 They found more classified materials in Hillary’s dealings than in Trumps. And some of hers were Top Secret and above. She lost control of them. And not all of them were encrypted. That is how the NYPD was able to say “Oh SHIT!” as they found them on Weiner’s computer.

Understand, I’m asking you to accept that Hillary broke the very laws you are saying Trump broke. No extenuating circumstances, no excuses. If you want to use extenuating circumstances, then Trump, as POTUS, can use the one that he declassified the documents. You aren’t willing to go there as an extenuating circumstance, but are willing to overlook EVERYTHING Hillary did. I’m asking you to actually think about that and consider your hypocrisy. The only real difference is the political views. That and one of the characters has the name TRUMP which is a trigger for you.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Every news source I have heard puts more classified documents in Trump’s basement than on Hillary s server,and yeah she fucked up by not following procedure,but she wasn’t trying to keep anything.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 I admit Hilary fucked up by not following proper procedure, now I ask why can’t you admit Trump did the same?

HP's avatar

The bottom line is that, like it or not, the conclusion by BOTH the FBI and the DOJ which actually decided the matter was that it would be next to impossible to obtain a conviction of Clinton in a court of law. We shall see if the same can be said for Trump regarding HIS behavior. The facts stacked against him have narrowed to a single defense as the squirming @seawulf575 surely demonstrates. No juror in their right mind, regardless of how obtuse will buy the argument that a President might declassify anything simply through stealing it. But beyond the classifiaction issue on any of this is the question of WHO owns any of it. And IN THIS, THERE IS NO WAY OUT. The fact that not a single soul involved in this matter disputes ownership of the stuff other than Trump and the fact that he was informed of this fact repeatedly for better than a year, means that it is up to the courts to tell him finally whose documents the pig held in his cellar. But here’s why the quicksand is already above the pig’s snout. A judge has already determined the government justified in forcibly retrieving the documents. The SAME judge will oversee the pig’s prosecution (if any) in this matter. Now consider the implications if the precedent is set that any President upon leaving office can walk away from the White House with whatever he pleases. Now back to that single defense, and to put it bluntly: THE MAN IS INSANE. The evidence on this one is pretty much beyond refutation.

HP's avatar

You want to know my fantasy in this? It would be either the prosecution or defense insisting Trump undergo psychiatric evaluation. It would be interesting to witness 2024 as
the year of our first bonafide candidate running while certified legally insane. Of course neither the wulf nor the magaheads would take note of the distinction.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@HP wulfie as with the rest of the fright wings have put their faith in Trump and nothing will change that ,wulfie can’t even admit Trump fucked up by not surrendering the documents the first time he was asked, Trump could literally shoot someone and his base would blame the victim for getting in the way of his bullet.

LadyMarissa's avatar

@seawulf575 Do your research, Hillary’s may have been TS…your boy’s was TSSCI & he had to print them out & box them in order to take them home!!! Had he returned them when ASKED, NOBODY would have cared that he took them home. Instead, he stomped his little feet like a 2 year old so suckers would send him MORE money!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@LadyMarissa when it’s time for him to admit his hero fucked up ,he can NOT admit it typical fright wing.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP The FBI and DoJ agreed to not prosecute Hillary because they created what I call “the intent clause” that didn’t actually exist. They even said Yes, she broke the law repeatedly, but she didn’t mean to. So because there was no intent, we couldn’t really prosecute her. But that creation is in direct contradiction to the law that says intent isn’t necessary for the law to be broken. And none of you are even addressing how the two cases were dealt with by those same corrupt institutions. With Hillary, they subpoenaed her emails. After they subpoenaed them she refused and said she would decide what was pertinent to their case. And they went along with that. So she got rid of 30,000 pieces of evidence and no one batted an eye. With Trump, they went and got a FISA warrant and did a raid on his home. Just a little bit different, don’t you think?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You have admitted Hillary violated procedure, but you have not admitted she lost control of classified materials. As for Trump, I’m not sure from a legal aspect that he did violate procedure OR lose control of classified materials. I will point out…again…that he was POTUS at the time. He has the absolute right to classify or declassify materials as he likes. He says he declassified these things. His legal counsel at the time agrees he declassified these things. The FBI KNOWS all this because it was listed in their affidavit for getting the warrant to raid his home. So if he declassified the materials, then the entire episode is just another scam by the FBI to play the FISA courts for political reasons. That is where you are at.
What I WILL say about Trump is that IF it can be proven he didn’t declassify the materials, then he completely screwed up. So far I have seen nothing that gives a “procedure” the POTUS has to go through to declassify something. If he says it, it is so. And per Pg 19 of the affidavit, he DID say it, in front of witnesses. So, lacking a procedure (that seems to be non-existent) and by having witnesses, he doesn’t have classified materials at all.

seawulf575's avatar

@LadyMarissa If Trump declassified them, they are no longer any ranking of classified materials. So Hillary had TS+ and Trump had declassified.

seawulf575's avatar

And one more question for all of you that are looking for Trump blood: Hillary’s case set the precedent. Are the FBI and DOJ going to follow the same precedent they set? Are they going to say Trump didn’t mean to break the law? Are they going to say he thought he had declassified them so there was no intent?

seawulf575's avatar

Another consideration for all of you. Does it seem odd to any of you that the timing of all this coincides closely to when the DoJ and FBI got involved with spying on Trump back before the 2016 election?

HP's avatar

Coincides with what? The crime he commits 5 years later?Apparently the FBI was not spying enough to prevent his running off with a truckload of classified documents. The FBI was every bit as justified in watching Trump as the ATF in tracking Al Capone. Trump had more scams and grifts going than Capone ever dreamed of. Everything from his fake college scam that bilked hundreds of suckers to his tacky hotel crammed full of his fellow sleazebag Russian criminal “investors”. How could the FBI avoid him, with women all over the country ratting him out for molesting them as he doled out hush money and bragged openly about his routine of grabbing them by the genitals? Open racism and blatant discrimination in the leasing of his properties, he’s cheated and scammed Atlantic City, as well as New York City, violated labor laws, illegaly employed scores of the very people he berated for crashing our borders to “rape and murder” us. And then there’s the matter of his tax “irregularities”. Spy on him? The FBI along with law enforcement nationwide simply could not keep up!

HP's avatar

In fact, my bet is that the 4 years Trump spent embarassing the country as its clown President was his only respite from the myriad of prosecutions and lawsuits. What other President has been sued literally thousands of times? Barr, the only truly talented lawyer who threw in with the idiot saved Trump’s bacon through concoction of the dictum that a President could not be prosecuted while in office, thereby hamstringing the DOJ, Mueller and the mountain of other threatened prosecutions confronting the pig. Barr served the pig admirably at the cost of his own honor and reputation only to be thrown under the bus as his reward, just as with the legions of others who fell in league with the pig.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok @seawulf575 I will play along, the documents were declassified by him verbally doing so and it matters not that they are still stamped otherwise,they are still GOVERNMENT property and they want them back Trump LIED saying he did give them back but did not this the search warrant, the very least your god stole and was in possession of stolen government documents,you can at least admit to that can’t you?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also not stamping and redacting these documents ,that seems not important to you he could and most likely would have endangered human assets the government has in the field?

HP's avatar

One thing is beyond dispute if the FBI does stick to the guidelines pursued regarding Hillary’s case. And that is with the matter of Trump’s intent. The documents, declassified or not, are NOT his property, and nothing about this incident is more conclusive than the fact that he INTENTIONALLY refused to turn them over.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

By not being President he has no powers regarding declassifying documents,and he is in possession of stolen government documents,and after the investigation it turns out some or all were still classified you won’t be able to defend him.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 So you want to say they are government property…okay. So it’s the library fine. If you keep a library book at home too long, does the swat team come and raid your house?

As for what the impact of those documents might have had, it comes again back to the statement that you don’t know what is in those documents. You assume the worst. I put forth before that it might have been something that is completely horrible that this country is doing. It might be underhanded dirty tricks perpetrated by senior officials. It might have been proof the FBI is corrupt. There are any number of things it could be. Fear mongering is where you go wrong.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 would you be happy if someone that had the missile system and nuclear sub blueprints from your sub and would sell them to Kim in North Korea ( bet you would if it was Trump) !

seawulf575's avatar

@HP Maybe you should do a little research before you spout off. In February, Trump returned the 15 boxes of records.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/593648-trump-says-return-of-documents-to-archives-routine-and-no-big-deal/

It wasn’t until August that the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago, ostensibly to recover the same 15 boxes of records.
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-nara-fbi/

So I’m struggling here. He took some records and then gave them back. And then, 6 months later (but politically convenient for the Democrats) the FBI raids his home.

Most presidents take papers with them. This isn’t new. The unprecedented attack on political rivals of the Democrats by the FBI and the DOJ IS new. It started before the 2016 election and not a single person has been held accountable.

Remember the impeachment of Trump? You know…the one that was based on lies and backed by people that had no first hand information? That was because the Dems screamed that Trump was trying to get someone to do damage to his political rival. This was at a time when Joe Biden wasn’t even in the race. None of that was even based on fact. Yet here we have the FBI and the DOJ repeatedly using the power of their office (conveniently when Dems are in the WH) to spy, raid, and generally harass THE political opponent of the Dems.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You’re struggling because you only see the good and holy in a Mobster, February The Don Father returned 15 boxes of Documents, correct.
In August the FBI raided you’re Mobsters home, incorrect they served a search warrant.
For the same 15boxes of documents ,incorrect.
Documents he failed to return in February even though asked repeatedly to return the last ( we hope) of the missing documents.
Funny how that Kash guy is the only one remembering Trumps order of declassification NO ONE else on his staff remembers such order.
And only to you if Trump waved his little hands over any document he wanted declassified it was so, who cares if it wasn’t stamped or redacted.
And who the FUCK is fear mongering he had a number of documents stamped classified,others stamped highly classified,and yet other STILL STAMPED TOP SECRET,he could have put human assets in danger by not having them redacted,but your right it was just probably parking fines for the secret service.
He also didn’t incite a riot on Jan6 by telling a foaming at the mouth crowd we have to fight like hell to keep our country.
He also never asked Georgia to find him a certain number of votes that would win him that state.
I have to remember you’re a Trumper and just deny it all until it comes out in court and if that doesn’t go your way scream witch hunt til you have no voice.

HP's avatar

It’s really interesting, the similarities between Trump & Capone in regards to the 2 criminals and their long dance with law enforcement and the judicial system. Capone too had his proponents loudly proclaiming his “harassment” solely the result of bias against Italians and Roman Catholics. Just take a gander at just how laughably lame the excuses are on this page, and imagine a judge and jury assessment of such sound defense arguments as “most Presidents take papers with them”, implying that EVERY ex President probably has crates of top secret documents lying around the house. Does anyone here believe this? And on it goes. Democrats and Republicans have been fighting like cats and dogs since the 2 came into being, yet managed not to impeach each other’s Presidents except twice in nearly 200 years. Yet here we have a man impeached TWICE within 2 years SOLELY for political reasons. Who believes that one? But here’s the topper, Trump’s legal morass has nothing to do with the fact that he is a rampant open criminal. His only problem is the fact that the Democrats alone take advantage of his blatant and open criminality to make him and conservatives look bad. Who agrees with that? Now the fact that law enenforcement and the courts loaded with Trump appointed judges join in ganging up on the pig is proof that they too are in on the deal. Does that sound right to you? And on it goes, but notice there is no retort to the open and shut case about just WHO it is who owns the documents in question. There’s NO debate to be had on that one. And for all those former Presidents with the top secret documents lining their bird cages and litter boxes, if the national archives asks for them back, be sure to follow the obstinate pig’s example and claim them declassified because you stole them. I can’t wait for this indictment and the blizzard of others, to hear this silly shit insulting the intelligence of all within earshot.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And remember @HP having these documents are nothing more serious than an overdue library book.

HP's avatar

Yeah. He has no idea how insulting it is to hear these things. Like the pig himself, who does not understand that “Mexico will pay for it” is pig language for “I consider you a fool and nearly as stupid as myself”.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 If you closely read the articles I posted you will see that NARA wasn’t sure there were missing documents. So think about that. Some bureaucrat has a half-assed, uncertain claim, and the DoJ and FBI initiate a raid on the home of a former president who also happens to be a favorite in 2024 and who is making a huge impact on the 2022 elections. But he isn’t a Democrat so they have no problem with it.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And, it was you that reduced this to improperly returning papers. But I have a challenge for all of you that have these wonderfully smarmy responses. Here are a few questions you need to answer…not with generalities or “I think” or “I heard” kind of answers. And certainly not with dodges.
1. What were the documents he supposedly had? Not their supposed classification, what were they?
2. What laws (with citations to a reputable source) do you believe he has violated and why?

Here’s what we have on this page, as we do on so many pages where Trump is addressed. The Trump haters make all sorts of wild claims and feed on one another. They get most of these claims from an equally Trump Deranged media. They don’t back it up at all with fact. Oh you get some that post opinion pieces, but that’s about it. Show me the evidence. Show me the laws.

I make this challenge because so far all you have is wild claims. You love to refer to “Fright Wingers” but isn’t it really the left that are the fear mongers? When you make wild claims without a stitch of evidence, you are fear mongering. And while that is a great political trick, it doesn’t work on those that actually question things. And there are getting to be more and more people seeing through that tactic all the time.

HP's avatar

Once again, it isn’t us making stuff up or speculating. And no one need validate your demand that we list specifically what was taken. And this is because there is no need to list items or cite statutes. None of it matters. You know EXACTLY what it is that matters which is why you studiously avoid it and won’t face up to it. It doesn’t matter if the 30 boxes of documents are full of bubble gum wrappers or if the top secret documents are back issues of Mad magazine.
What matters is that the pig STOLE property that belonged to the people of the United States. It matters not one bit what the property is. What matters is that the National archives notified him that he had the people’s property and wanted it back. He returned half of it, thereby acknowledging that it did NOT belong to him, while LYING that he had returned it all. The government recognizing that he was lying as usual, put the matter before a judge, who agreed and authorized the seizure of the remainder of the PEOPLE’S PROPERTY. The property was lawfully seized, and the documents verified as those specified stolen. It as open and shut a case as you will ever see. Who owns it? Who STOLE it? WHO refused to give it back after given every possible opportunity to comply with the law of the land, and avoid the embarassmment of the prosecution of an ex President in a Federal court. The stupid pig FORCED the government’s hand, plain and simple.

ragingloli's avatar

LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

If this was an ex Democrat You would want him prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law, and you know it.
You still foam at the mouth that Hilary didn’t get the death penalty for the email scandal, and OMG she put National Security at great risk, but not your beloved doesn’t matter he had boxes of classified, highly classified, and top secret documents he deemed them declassified and that made them harmless to National Security as for the public knowing what those documents were, the FBI still has to treat them as the way they were stamped,they had no way of knowing they were declassified other than the Mobsters word.

LadyMarissa's avatar

IF I had an overdue library book & they came knocking on my door to ASK for it, I’d give them the damn book without the necessity to come back & look for it themselves!!! They would NOT find hundreds of overdue library books squirreled away!!! And I sure wouldn’t be stomping my feet screaming “It’s MINE!!!”

STOP ignoring the fact that there are specific procedures to declassifying documents…NONE of which involves any President waving their grimy little hand over it, clicking their heels 3 times, & whispering “declassify”!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Careful @LadyMarissa wulfie will mark you down as a hater too,after all this is just a witch hunt to tarnish his beloved mobsters god like reputation.
Hillary is the real villain!

HP's avatar

Yes. And she will be right there with the rest of us, along with the FBI, DOJ, leftist courts, mainstream media—all of us in our “Trump derangement” syndrome. The pig is sure to be vindicated and absolved of any wrongdoing with such poignant defenses as “it’s mine because I stole it”, “Hillary got away with it, why can’t I” , and of course the ever present “what about Hunter Biden’s laptop”?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “If this was an ex Democrat You would want him prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law, and you know it.” You know, I’d want the person convicted on the crime based on facts. BUT…you guys set the precedent with Hillary. You can obviously put classified materials anywhere on the internet, send them to anyone, and that is okay. As long as it is a Dem doing it, I guess. Based on the precedent you guys have fought for (and continue to defend) it isn’t about the classified materials at all. It is about Trump.

What you fail to acknowledge is that what I’m actually addressing is the disparity in how the cases were viewed, dealt with, and viewed from a perspective of significance. In both cases there were materials that were probably where they shouldn’t have been. In both cases they were significantly classified. But in one case you want to see no wrong and in the other you can’t see anything but wrong. How is that? When the end result was the same, how can you say one was nothing and the other is, as @Tropical_Willie says, “Lock him up!”?

It amazes me that you just can’t actually see the two cases are effectively identical. Hillary violated every rule because she just didn’t want to be inconvenienced. Trump ended up with documents he felt he was allowed to have. I can’t say he violated the same laws because of the prerogative of the POTUS being in play. He may have and he may not have. But in both cases, the perpetrator was very self-centered and felt they were above any laws.

The only REAL difference, aside from the views of those on these pages, is how the media and how the FBI dealt with both of them.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP of course it matters what the laws are or what was on the documents. That is the key to everything. And you can’t actually tell me about either. So in other words you are speaking from a point of ignorance and demanding that others buy into your ignorance.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ “Donnie can do no wrong”, but his current lawyer is a loser in court and on TV show.

TWO FREAKING weeks . . .LOSER lawyer . FBI has all the info they need !

DJT is TOAST !!

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie You said the exact same thing about the Russia Collusion thing. And that turned out to be a complete hoax. And amazingly, the FBI was involved in that one too. Do you ever get tired of just echoing what the left-wing news outlets tell you?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

”. And that turned out to be a complete hoax. And amazingly, the FBI was involved in that one too.” in your humble opinion !!!

He’d sink a USA sub if he could paid in cash !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 The Russian collusion was not a hoax no matter how many times you say it wasn’t Mulluer said there was evidence there was a whole bunch of indictments some pleaded guilty, He just couldn’t prosecute Trump at that time, and suddenly the right is screaming hoax nothing here, my question if you keep screaming it over and over are you trying to convince us or yourself??

KNOWITALL's avatar

He was cleared of that in 2019. Most on the Right consider it a great example of a leftist conspiracy theory.
The bbc and other less biased sites all reported it, so not sure what there is to argue about on that case, gentlemen.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Bill Barr shut down Mueller’s Report or so Barr said.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Billy got thrown under the bus by the TANGERINE Turd !!

HP's avatar

Trump has kept that bus inordinately busy. I wonder if anyone has compiled the long list of those mangled bodies covered with the Trump tread marks

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I just don’t get why his base loves him so much?
He has implicated him self in this document scandal several times on his site truth social, and yet his base sees no wrong doing.
I don’t get it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And all he would have to do was simply surrender them the first time when asked,but no and now claims it’s all a witch hunt by the corrupt FBI whos leader Trump put in place, but they are corrupt not him.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Russia Collusion WAS a hoax in that they were claiming Trump was colluding with Russia based on bogus information from a discredited foreign spy that was paid for by Hillary and the DNC. The fact they used all this bogus stuff and presented it as factual (without any vetting) to the FISA court is how they got to spy on a political adversary and found incidental crap on some Americans. Mueller even concluded that while there seemed to be an effort by Russia to interfere in the election, no Americans were knowingly a part of it.

No matter how many times you try to dodge all the facts to focus on incidental issues, it was still a hoax, perpetrated by the FBI, DoJ, and DNC.

HP's avatar

@seawulf575 you are correct. As far as the documents are concerned, we are both speaking from ignorance on what exactly they contain. But what they contain is in no way pertinent to the matter of who owns them, why they are at Trump’s house instead of where EVERYONE agrees they LEGALLY belong, except the thief and yourself. The thief was informed repeatedly, as EVERYONE in this conversation is aware as to owns the documents. Would you care to dispute or debate that ownership? And by the way, the pig himself clearly did not classify those documents himself, since he is incapable of correctly spelling top secret. And you are VERY wrong. I state nowhere that the laws don’t matter. I claim no citation is required to understand that is illegal to take and keep anything that does not belong to you. And while we are both ignorant of what the documents might contain, the fact that sevreral of them are stamped top secret is clue enough as to the gravity of what they MUST contain. That is a clue only to the extent of the pig’s crime. The crime for which he will swing decidedly is that of KEEPING WHAT WAS NOT HIS. Do you dispute ownership of the documents? Are the National archives in error? Is that another leftist arm of the Democrats? My point is that regardless of what is in the documents, Trump is guilty of stealing them plain and simple. The only difference between him stealing them and any common thief, is in the fact that a common thief would not be repeatedly asked for their return, but arrested and charged on the spot. So cut the ignorant nonsense, and address the bear trap that bites into the leg of your silly argument. The key to EVERYTHING is not as you ignorantly believe what is in the documents or their classification. The key to everything but the length of the pig’s sentence is in the ownership of the clearly purloined property, classified or not. Would you care to dispute this without reference to Hillary or Hunter’s laptop?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I heard a good one on the news the Government agencies these documents belong to have no knowledge of these documents being declassified,if that is true than it makes this worse than an overdue library book.
It makes top secret documents in possession of an ex president at his home,who lied about having them.
But I guess it’s still all Hillarys fault,oh and Hunters.

HP's avatar

@KNOWITALL Looking at Trump realistically, I believe it would be a mistake to conclude that the Russian collusion thing is settled, and I am about as certain of this as I was prior to his election and declared on this very site that he would not survive 4 years without impeachment.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP I make no claim to know what the documents contain. You don’t see me jumping to ANY conclusions here. I leave that to you guys on the left. I just point out the jumping when I see it.

As for you never saying the laws matter, let me refresh it for you “And no one need validate your demand that we list specifically what was taken. And this is because there is no need to list items or cite statutes. None of it matters.” Yes, you did say the laws don’t matter. All that matters to you is that Trump is involved. That is enough for you. You can’t even accept the multimillion dollar investigation that was done by way of an independent counsel. You just can’t get past TRUMP. But you are right…I HOPE the Russia thing is not settled. I would dearly love to see someone pay for the brazen and blatant Stasi moves…to out and out lie to courts to get warrants to spy on Americans and not just Americans, but political rivals of the party in power.

HP's avatar

Read the quote again. What it says is that your request for citations is superfluous to the discussion and unnecessary. The single thing that matters and that YOU WILL NOT ADDRESS IS WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS, the pig or the people. For if these are as the National archives claims the people’s documents, Trump has not a leg to stand on. Do you require a citation to validate either of these facts? Quit skirting the issue that matters and face up to it for a change. Are they his documents to keep? And stop pretending we should take offense that an ex President’s house was raided. The great offense in the eyes of the world and anyone with a nickel’s worth of sense is that there is an ex President with the mentality of a common thief, who once again brings shame upon himself by forcing the people to deprive him of their STOLEN property. So shut up over the side issues and please once and for all answer the fkn question, is the property his or not?

seawulf575's avatar

No, I suggest you read the quote again. You absolutely refused to provide facts or cite laws…all of which you comment on how horrible it is. But when you can’t provide facts or cite laws, you are speaking from ignorance. AND what you said is that the facts and the laws don’t matter. So Now you are trying to weasel out of what you actually said by trying to deflect…again.

HP's avatar

Is it his property? And does he deserve prosecution if it is not? Which of us is the weasel, and which of us would you say is squirming? Do you now understand the hole both of you are in?

HP's avatar

well…?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You know what I find interesting @HP The FBI had to get special clearance to look at the Documents they took from The Don Father’s home, why would they need special clearance if they all had been DECLASSIFIED? As he claims .
I also find it interesting that the Government agencies that these documents belong to have NO KNOWLEDGE of these documents being declassified.
I wonder why if they truly were declassified?

ragingloli's avatar

Imagine sueing a movie studio over copyright infringement for a story idea you had, except you never wrote anything down, never told anyone about it, the studio never had contact with you, and you have no evidence whatsoever that you ever even had the idea before the studio made their’s public.
That is what the Orangutan is doing.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I totally agree^^ but be careful you will enrage a certain wulf with claims like that.

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
I stopped caring about what that one thinks a long, long time ago. He fittignly is the boy that cries wolf.

HP's avatar

He’s not enraged. But he will NEVER answer that question, for rather obvious reasons. Trump won’t have the luck of the wulf when he is asked the question. Hillary did it too or Hunter’s computer, democratic bias, russian collusion witch hunt—no ducking and diving distractions will bevpermitted when he is asked the question.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also @HP Remember we don’t know what’s in those said documents, even though they are still stamped top secret and so on, and remember the Don Father declassified all of them guess thats why the FBI had to be granted special clearance to read them.

LadyMarissa's avatar

He admitted in court last week that he took them because they were his to take. He’s dropped the declassified crap. He had them in a drawer in his desk, so he was fondling them daily.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Does he say what his reason is for thinking those documents belonged to him?
After the DOJ and FBI requested them to be returned a few times.
After then resorting to the search warrant.

LadyMarissa's avatar

He’s a rich narcissist…he doesn’t “need” a reason in his mind…he wanted to keep them because they were HIS!!! Funny thing is that the 1978 law as written was a misdemeanor. In his zest to fuck Hillary, he changed the law to a felony punishable by jail time. Then he stuck his OWN toe in the trap…excuse me a sec…HaHa/haHaHa

HP's avatar

He’s cooked. What’s his defense? “I didn’t know”? “Nobody told me”? “I always get my own way”? “Gimme a break. I am the REAL President for chrissakes”? The pig has done it this time. He has forced the government to almost surely pursue the path he has forced on his confidants, lawyers, associates, etc. And that is what for him is the ultimate unbearable humiliation. He is going to have to stand before a judge and jury in a Federal courtroom and declare himself a criminal and openly apologize for the crime lest he die in a grey rock Federal prison. And folks, this will only be the first of his apologies to come. Lay in a good stock of popcorn while we watch the perpetual roasting of this country’s greatest turkey. What do you suppose his answer will be when the prosecutor asks him under oath “mr. Trump are you currently the President of the United States?”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

It doesn’t look good for the Don Father,he will go down screaming witch hunt, and crooked DO J.
But these agencies tried working with telling him over just give the damn documents back,and he kept lying saying he did,he forced them to the search warrant stage then called them corrupt for doing so ,then claimed them all declassified which was again another lie,the guy is his own worst enemy,and yet his foam at the mouth followers still think he is god like.
All I can say is REALLY???

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Threw Christina Bobb under the bus and he is there too for obstruction of justice (can’t have Billy Barr block this one). Repeatedly lied and blocked the DOJ !!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And yet his foam at the mouth followers lover him to no end,are they that desperate for one of his maga hats?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 for $50 for the MAGA hat ! or $100 a month for life to “Stop the Steal” !!!!

LadyMarissa's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You might get a good laugh out of this…Tonight on Truth Social, the FPOS asked “Why are people so mean?”

That will be the next narative.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That is rich @LadyMarissa coming from a guy who mocked a handicapped person,yells at reporters telling them they do an awful job.
What is he upset he had to give back the pretty little documents?

LadyMarissa's avatar

EXACTLY!!!

Another giggle…Sarah Palin LOST her race in Alaska this week…couldn’t happen to a nicer lady!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@LadyMarissa Did you see the interview of Trump complaining that the Feds were accusing him of sloppily keeping the highly classified documents on his office floor?
It was an evidence photo the FBI took there was a number card and other things indicating so,even his lawyer was on his side with this.
Like is his base that stupid not to see this?
When the Feds show a table of drugs and guns from a bust they did, they didn’t find them on a table.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh @seawulf575 They even said on FOX that the Government agencies that these documents belong to have no knowledge of them ever being declassified, but YOU told us The Don Father declassified them making them in turn harmless.
Could you have been mistaken on this fact?

flutherother's avatar

Even if Mar-A-Lago contains lots classified material we can at least be pretty confident that Trump himself never bothered to read any of it. He would take documents home like a magpie stealing shiny objects for its nest.

ragingloli's avatar

And apparently part of what they found during the search were 90 empty classified folders
Taking bets on what the Orangutan did with them:
1: Still has them hidden away somewhere
2: destroyed them
3: Handed them off to his Russian handlers.

flutherother's avatar

Material that is unaccounted for might just as well be in Russian or Chinese hands. The very possibility is toxic.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

He might just get that Espionage charge yet.

HP's avatar

The agencies all seem pretty heated up over it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well The Don Father did say ask him what he could do to turn the heat down, UH HOW ABOUT RETURNING THE DAMN DOCUMENTS?!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Even Bill Barr has come out and said there was no reason why Trump should have taken these documents.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Are we really going to go round and round on this one again? The real issue is what it takes for the POTUS to declassify something. You keep saying this group or that group doesn’t know anything about them being declassifed. But you have yet to show me an actual law that says what the POTUS has to do to declassify something. I, on the other hand, have shown several things that could say he HAD declassified them…the uber-secret affidavit among them. Tell you what, the next time you want to waltz around the dance floor on this topic, bring some music. Show me an actual law that says how the POTUS…not general people, but the POTUS…declassifies documents or information.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

THE AGENCIES THESE DOCUMENTS BELONG TO DECLARE THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THEM BEING DECLASSIFIED AND THAT IS STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?
I never said while President he had the power to declassify documents that is true, but a procedure has to be done, the very least the agencies have to be aware of it,redaction has to be put in , not to endanger human assets or other secrets,then stamped DECLASSIFIED, but not to you he just waves his small hand over it declares it declassified and thus it is.
AND EVERY NEWS SOURCE including FOX has said these documents were still highly classified.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “but a procedure has to be done, the very least the agencies have to be aware of it,redaction has to be put in , not to endanger human assets or other secrets,then stamped DECLASSIFIED, but not to you he just waves his small hand over it declares it declassified and thus it is.” Based on WHAT?!? That is what I keep asking for. You spout all these rules that MUST be followed, yet you can’t actually tell me where those rules are. Look at it this way: if the POTUS took classified materials and chose to discuss them with a foreign entity, he can, with no procedure, do it. He just declassified them. It is his prerogative. That is what I keep telling you. There is NO PROCEDURE that binds the POTUS like the one you describe.

I’m not saying that is right or wrong, but it is the way it is. And in the Affidavit, they even have the statement from the Trumps legal counsel that he declared to several people that he was declassifying the materials. That, legally, is all that is needed. Unless you can actually show the procedure you swear is out there, you are merely trying to reiterate what your left wing outlets tell you.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

The TANGERINE turd can do no wrong even if it is truly WRONG; in some people’s eyes ! ! !

There will made up excuses until he gets put in jail for obstruction ! ! !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I looked it up, while there is no formal procedure ,there is an informal one that most presidents followed .
1 The president wants it declassified he then discusses it with the vice president, and the agencies heads if agreed it is then declassified stamped and redacted.

BUT if they disagree he can still declare it declassified, seems like your hero is the only one to ever do it this way.
You do know declassified documents can be viewed by joe public?
You want anyone viewing these documents?
Also why did the FBI need special clearance to view these documents if they have all been declassified?
NOW I will even give you ok they have been declassified,BUT he still stole them, lied about returning them all,which makes him guilty of obstruction, and possession of stolen government property

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 your Mobster god may have put a lot of human assets in great danger by his child like way of declassifying documents, but keep defending him and blaming it all on the evil left.

LadyMarissa's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Yeah I saw that & we know how many people believed him!!!

Nikki Haley is upset that the Dems think the Reps are bad people, yet she had NOTHING to prove it WRONG!!!

HP's avatar

As I keep repeating, it isn’t the classification issue that slidesTrump’s neck into the noose. That issue will be addressed regarding the extent of his crime and the punsihment rendered. It will also contribute mightily in demonstrating the extent of his derangement. Is there anyone here who buys the argument that a precedent might be set whereby a president might declassify documents through simply notifying his lawyer or priest of his intent? As a juror, would you buy that? Of course you cannot argue whether it’s right or wrong. How about the issue of whether or not it is stupid? Is this the sort of knucklehead crap you believe the founding fathers had in mind? This rigamarole is exactly what I mean by conservatives insulting the intelligence of us all. This isn’t the land of Oz, and Trump resembles the wizard only in that he is a hopeless fraud. Again, the key to his demise is in the answer the wulf will NEVER give and that Trump will NEVER avoid. I fully expect there are going to be a lot of questions to Trump under oath, the answers to which will humiliate him terribly. Believe me, if I can compile a list, any nickel & dime lawyer will not fail to bring them up. Do you suppose the government might make the mistake of allowing him a plea bargain to avoid the spectacle of an ex President on trial?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I wonder if some the documents (NOW missing) include USA operatives (CIA) ?

If any of them have been killed does that mean Tangerine Turd is in conspiracy to commit murder ? ? ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

We can only hope.^^^^^
Probably sold the info to his buddy Putin , and KIm.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well The Don Father will have to prove the date on which he declassified these documents, see Wulfie another reason they should have been stamped and redacted, your Mobster god by doing so could have put human assets lives in great danger just to save his own corrupt ass, and you keep defending him saying nothing more than just an over due library book.
Look without them stamped and redacted the Government is treating them as still highly classified, I think the law courts will as well .
If a Democrat President had done this you would be losing your fucking mind over it, but since it’s your corrupt mobster eh no big deal.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Yep, once declassified they can be viewed by anyone. That can be good or bad, depending on what was in the documents. Again, we don’t know what is in them.

As for the date they were declassified, as I said, it is in the affidavit. They cited the interview with Kash Patel in the affidavit. So there is a timeline of when they were declassified. That is the oddest part about all this to me…is that the FBI knew he had declassified them and still treated them as classified….a national security threat. I get that they don’t like Trump, but the FBI SHOULD NOT have the luxury of being political. If they are political, then we have fascism already alive and well in the USA. And it isn’t with the Repubs.

As to the markings on the documents (if there were any) ideally they would have been eradicated somehow, but again, that isn’t necessarily true when it comes to the POTUS. I’ve dealt first hand with classified materials. It was drilled into me in the navy. I held a Top Secret clearance myself. Let me tell you that not all classified materials are marked. Some are visuals, some are spoken, some are written. If I take a classified document and copy over pertinent parts into an email, that email is still classified even though it isn’t marked. Think Hillary again. But it is more than that as well. We had a section of our submarine that was classified in a way that you had to have not only a specific clearance level, but also authorization to enter. The entire crew had authorization to enter providing evolutions were not happening inside at the time. Our Quartermaster’s desk was where they plotted the course of the submarine. It had a big curtain all around it because while we were at sea on a mission, we were not allowed to know where we were going. The point is that there is a whole world of intricacies when it comes to classified materials. If I were walking down the street and found a piece of paper that was marked as SECRET, I’d likely turn it in to the police or whatever agency it came from if I could readily tell. If it was found to have been declassified, no big deal…it is effectively litter then. It isn’t up to me to determine if it is classified or not because of how it is marked. But that doesn’t mean it IS classified.

I agree Trump should have just told NARA he was declassifying all the documents had them marked as such, and then copied them, giving the originals back. That would have been the ideal. But because of his position as POTUS it doesn’t mean what he did was wrong.

HP's avatar

This foolishness about some imaginary vendetta against the acknowledged idiot is beyond laughable. The very idea that someone of demonstrated and PROVEN incompetence might have 30 boxes of STOLEN documents—many of them classified, with that very incompetence illustrated through the simple fact that he was repeatedly notified by his government, HIS lawyers and everyone that matters that the STOLEN property was not his to take, let alone keep—and you want to sit here and claim that such an idiot in possession of such documents is not a bonafide security risk????? How difficult do you actually believe it was for the FBI to convince a judge that an IDIOT with stolen CLASSIFIED property he refuses to relinquish must have that property forcibly taken? This is a case where the only reprimand justified concerning the FBI was in allowing a full year to pass wherein the moron might do God knows what with whatever was contained in those restricted folders. And Iyou should consider that claim of Kash Patel in that affidavit that you can bet will land Patel in the same boat as EVERY OTHER LAWYER WHO PERJURED HIMSELF IN DEFENSE OF THE PIG. You have no credibility left in your hopeless claim of political persecution of the idiot thief. Come clean and admit that a man WILLFULLY IN POSSESSION OF STOLEN PROPERTY IS A THIEF. Once again, WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS? And who MUST be prosecuted for both the theft and refusal to surrender them? Answer that if you dare. Or shrink away for the coward you surely are.

seawulf575's avatar

^zzzzz….zz….zzzz….Yes, it must be laughable. You just proved it true though. Your entire argument starts with opinion and ends with opinion with name calling thrown in. Nah…no bias there. And if a simpleton such as yourself is that biased and hateful, why couldn’t the FBI be? The evidence of their behavior is proven fact…they will lie to break laws just to set Trump up. The entire Russia collusion showed that. They will bend over backwards to cover up for the Dems. Hillary’s emails and Hunter’s laptop showed that. But what’s the use? You are not capable of having any sort of rational discussion…you are to deep in TDS.

HP's avatar

Follow the ball, and don’t change the subject. There is no slippery way out. The fact that you will not admit that possession of stolen goods along with the refusal to relinquish those goods renders whoever in possession a thief and clearly worthy of prosecution—the fact that you so strenuously avoid the issue proves BEYOND ANY doubt that you do follow the ball. And the problem with that particular tactic is in the belief that ignoring the ball might be equivalent to the rest of us believing the ball nonexistent. How do you suppose that’s working? And by the way, it won’t matter, what you post on this thread from here on out. The glory days of the submarine, declassification through theft—none of it. My retort will simply “be who owns the stuff?” You already fully understand that if someone who owns the stuff asks for its return and the THIEF refuses to relinquish it, well your top secret clearance should establish the fact that you can finish the sentence yourself. So who owns the 30 boxes of stuff?Tell us if this is once again a matter of opinion.

LadyMarissa's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Bill Barr says 45 did NOT have the authority to declassify them so they were NEVER declassified!!!

HP's avatar

NO ONE believes it but the idiot and wulfie. If you want a fun read, check out the bio of Trump’s declassification alibi, Kash Patel. And look at his photo. It is the perfect picture of a man reacting to “you’re under arrest”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

But @seawulf575 said he did so it must be true after @LadyMarissa Trump wouldn’t lie and all this is just an evil plot by Hillary and Hunter to smear Trump’s God like reputation when the crime itself is about as serious as an overdue library book, but what gets me if this was a ex democrat president, this was happening to wulfie would be losing his mind screaming how horrible it is,but since it’s Trump eh no big deal.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So all kidding aside does anyone except our fright wing friends actually think the overdue library book plea will stand up in court??

HP's avatar

No way in hell

LadyMarissa's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Republican Karl Rove said it best…
When your library card gets canceled, you return everything that belongs to the library.
In this case, the American public IS the library & they canceled his library card almost 2 years ago, so it’s time he returned everything & STOP whining!!!

My opinion is…how the hell did he generate 11K pages of documents??? I doubt that he generated 11 pages, so most of those 11K are NOT HIS!!!

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “but what gets me if this was a ex democrat president, this was happening to wulfie would be losing his mind screaming how horrible it is,but since it’s Trump eh no big deal.” Not true at all. If the FBI had done to a Democrat what they have done to Trump, it would be just as big a deal. But they don’t. And that is a fact, Jack. Look at Hillary, look at Biden….they react very differently to Democrats than they do to Republicans. And THAT is the whole point. They are becoming the Secret Police, not being governed by laws and never being held accountable.

But let me turn your statement around on you. Because it is Trump, it’s worthy of prosecution and jail time….but when it’s Hillary or Biden or any other Democrat….it’s no big deal….just a deflection by Republicans really. In other words, you aren’t upset by the crime, you are deranged because of Trump. OR you actually support having Secret Police.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Whatabout . . . . . .

HE may think he is the USA dictator in charge, but he needs to follow the law and quit throwing his lawyers under the bus!
What is this 10 or 12 lawyers ?

HP's avatar

You know what is tiresome and stupid? This constant droning on why it is somehow unfair that Trump is being prosecuted for stealing and keeping the nation’s property. What wulfie is actually complaining about is that he thinks it is unfair that no Democrat is as openly STUPID and criminal as Trump. While wulfie himself is not as stupid as the pig (and proves it by never never answering the question about who owns the stolen records), he is arguing as if Democrats as well have boxes of stolen classified documents yet remain untouched by the “secret police”. It’s ridiculous on its face and a preposterous position. Because the bottom line regarding the pig is THERE ARE NO COMPARABLE crimes or examples on which to compare or contrast. Either answer the question on ownership of the documents or shut up. Because if the National Archives is correct in asserting ownership of the documents, the FBI HAS NO CHOICE IN THE PURSUIT OF THEIR RETURN. The boxes were seized and THE CONTENTS VERIFIED AS THE PROPERTY OF THE PEOPLE. So once more WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS? And if it is the people, WHO STOLE THEM?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Again with the Hillary Email,yeah she was guilty of not using the correct server ya got us and she lost emails when she changed devices HORRORS, but the right kept going on and on on how she was deleting Emails , bleaching servers <whatever that is, truth is she was computer stupid she did not know how to delete emails or bleach servers.
NOW @seawulf575 TRump took highly classified documents out of where they belonged ,kept them in a country club with thousands of other documents.
Claims no big deal he had a secret affidavit with Kash P and he declassified them , making it about as bad as an over due library book! DO you think that plea will actually stand up in court?
The FACT that these documents were not stamped declassified and redacted making them safe to view makes zero difference to you,WHY?
Even Bill Barr has said it’s ridiculous that Trump could have declassified them also incredibly reckless and that comes from a DIE HARD REPUBLICAN.
But keep defending your Mobster leader.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 and since Trump left the White House you do know he has NO EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@HP wulfie could never admit he or his Mobster God was wrong, it goes against the FRight wing code deny it even if it’s proved wrong , admitting Trump was wrong is a sign of weakness to them , the right will keep screaming whatabout Hillary’s Emails even after they lead the Don Father off to his padded cell.

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
He predictably never admitted being wrong about the outcome of the myriad of lawsuits the Orangutan launched to overturn the election. Jumped straight to the “he was not allowed to present evidence” canard.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 You do know if your hero had just returned these documents when asked we wouldn’t be talking about it now, it probably would have just been swept under the rug and forgotten, but since he LIED about returning them forcing the secret police as you say to go the search warrant way the left has violated your heros home,and be afraid because if they could do it to him they could do it to you shudder!
YEAH no doubt if you steal thousand of Government documents some highly classified , and refuse to give them back they no doubt can do it to you.
But you can always claim no big deal it’s like an overdue library book and see where that gets you.

ragingloli's avatar

A Narcissist’s Prayer

That didn’t happen.

And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.

And if it was, that’s not a big deal.

And if it is, that’s not my fault.

And if it was, I didn’t mean it.

And if I did…

You deserved it.

HP's avatar

And what really takes the cake is that someone here looks at the pig’s behavior, then lectures US on OUR Trump derangement syndrome.It’s insulting.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Some people need to grow up ! @HP

HP's avatar

I don’t agree. You couldn’t sell that bullshit to a 4 year old.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Personally I hope this goes to trial right at midterm time.
Show these extremists just how corrupt their god like leader truly is.
Also would be great to find out where the missing documents are at that time as well, and to see just how well the overdue library book plea holds up.

HP's avatar

If this gets to court, it will be the opportunity of a lifetime to force trump to answer questions UNDER OATH. Such questions as Did you lose the last election?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@HP Does under oath mean anything to the Don Father??
He can’t tell the truth if his life depended on it, so not to lie we will be hearing one word over and over Fifth, fifth,fifth,fifth and so on.

seawulf575's avatar

I find it interesting that as soon as I try pointing out the real issue that bothers me, I get a slurry of responses that feed on each other to change what I was talking about so you can feel good about slamming Trump without actually having to consider what is being said.

HP's avatar

Then let’s stick to the issue you raise; the assertion that the administration of justice is politically biased across the board, with Trump as your proof of the assertion. The holes in that position are gigantic , and the Mar a lago episode is the worst possible example on which to hang your argument. And to illustrate that point, ignore, for a moment the treatment of any Democrat in the past, and answer truthfully whether you believe the FBI actually had any choice in retrieving the documents at the behest of the National Archives. The barrier you cannot overcome with Mar a lago as your example is the same one asuring Trump’s upcoming indictment. You lose on this one hands down, just as he will, and you know it.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP. Almost, but not quite. The administration of justice is politically biased across the board with Trump as proof….partly. And that “partly” is what allows you to avoid actually addressing the real issue. How Trump has been treated since 2015 is part of it. How Hillary was treated is another side of that same bias. As is the efforts by the FBI to suppress any investigation or spread of news of Hunter Biden’s Laptop before the 2020 election. Not only did they suppress any investigation into that, they actually worked with Facebook to suppress it as misinformation. That SHOULD scare everyone, but you all get stuck at “Trump”.

Do I believe the FBI had any choice? Yep. Especially since Trump had already turned in the 15 boxes NARA said was missing and all they could report to the FBI was “we think something’s missing”. Gee…I think you are a Russian spy. There, I’ve made the supposition I guess the FBI has to investigate you…they have no choice.

But more interesting is your lack of all the other crap the FBI and DoJ and the Dems have been involved in against Trump. Russia Collusion for a perfect example. The Dems took opposition research, compiled by a discredited British Spy, using information Russians fed him and gave it to the FBI as fact. The FBI, instead of vetting the information, lied to FISA courts to get warrants to spy on American citizens and especially political rivals of the Dems. I suppose you are going to say they had no choice to not vet the information and to lie to the FISA courts?

The lists go on and on. The FBI suppresses investigations or (in the case of Hillary when they couldn’t suppress anymore) allow the democrat being investigated to dictate what the FBI can and can’t see. That also should be evidence. Had they actually treated Hillary the same way as Trump, they would have seized her documents, her servers, her Blackberry, all as potential evidence into the investigation. They would have brought Huma and all Hillary’s other staff in as potential witnesses. They would have gotten FISA warrants to spy on all of them and then prosecuted them with anything they found…ever…in their past, if they didn’t roll over on Hillary.
If they treated Trump as they did Hillary, they would have asked him to give up any documents he had and he could then decide what they could and couldn’t have. And no subpoena would have ever been sought to investigate further.

All this points to a corrupt government that runs kangaroo courts and fakes evidence to get rid of people they don’t like and to protect those they do…allowing them to do whatever they want with impunity.

Take your hatred of Trump off the table for just 5 minutes. Open your eyes and your mind and you will see that how these government agencies deal with Democrats and how they deal with Republicans are completely different.

HP's avatar

Okay, let’s just concede that Mar a lago is a loser for your argument and move on. Let me put it to you that it makes absolutely no sense that the FBI, law enforcement, the courts, and mainstream media ALL are operations with a decided leftwing bias. If you know anything at all concerning the history and operation of this country, the very notion of the FBI and Department of Justice as tools of the left is absolutely ABSURD on its face. Virtually ALL of the people investigating and prosecuting Trump have SOLID LIFELONG REPUBLICAN allegiance—ALL OF THEM. Mueller, Comey—try to find a Democrat in a leadership position at the FBI. And as for the courts with which Republicans have been cramming as many conservative judges as possible, it is Trump appointees and designates right out front in his prosecution, ruling consistently and dependably against him at every turn. So I put it to you that it isn’t law enforcement, the MSM or the courts that have turned left, but rather conservatism itself that has gone batshit crazy with Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Green, etc. out front. And your argument is particularly flawed if you want Trump as the lynchpin in illustrating liberal bias. You can drop that silly nonsense, because if there is anything beyond dispute with that one it is this: The pursuit of Trump has NOTHING to do with politics , and EVERYTHING to do with justice chasing a glaring and notorious lifelong careeer criminal.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 You’re right they let Hillary slide,she should have received the death penalty.
Now though put your hate for her on the floor for a second as well she didn’t do half the stuff the holy right accuse her of mainly because she is to computer stupid to know how to do it.
Plus remember those government emails were encrypted you don’t believe that because some ended up on wrong computers which were brought to her attention,even encrypted they would have an unencrypted address.
I like over the years the number of those unsecured emails have ranged from 300 to 300,000 wow what is the official number, or are you not done yet??
I have heard the official number of classified emails is less than 10, and we don’t know if those were encrypted.
I admitted she broke procedure by not using a government server and a device of her choosing, now that is bad but you never batted an eye when a few Republicans did the exact same thing and nothing was done about that why?
If the DOJ. and FBI only pick on the right as you claim?

HP's avatar

You have to be crazy to hold Trump up as the example of bias against conservatives. It is exactly the same as trying to tell me the FBI has a bias against CRIME! Trump just happens to be a CRIMINAL conservative.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP, “If you know anything at all concerning the history and operation of this country, the very notion of the FBI and Department of Justice as tools of the left is absolutely ABSURD on its face” Yep. I do know the history of this country. I also know the history of other countries such as Germany, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba…you know…all the ones that didn’t have a history of this sort of behavior until they did. It didn’t work out for their citizens at all.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 ” You’re right they let Hillary slide,she should have received the death penalty.” So you admit they let her slide. Of course your death penalty comment is an effort to delegitimize any other discussion about it. I never said she should be put to death. It is you fools on the left that want that for Trump. But you admit they let her slide. So have they ever let Trump slide on _anything? Hell, they’ve made stuff up about him to try prosecuting him. So how is that treating them the same? Sounds like they are giving the Democrat a pass on the exact same crime they are trying to crucify Trump with.

And, by the way, not all the emails were encrypted. In fact, most of them were not. That is how the NYPD could readily identify what they had when they seized Weiner’s laptop. Oops. Guess that is just one more narrative down the drain, eh?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

See ^^^ that is where your hate shines through none of us want the Don Father to be put to death.(Of course your death penalty comment is an effort to delegitimize any other discussion about it. )
How is STEALING thousands of Government documents, a 100 of them highly classified the exact same crime as using the wrong server or device?
Your clutching at straws there, why do you refuse to admit that if he had just given back the documents when asked we wouldn’t be here with you saying yeah but WHATABOUT Hillary shit like it’s a get out of jail free card , for every crime your hero did or does in the future .

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also your claim no big deal the highly classified documents have all been declassified falls apart because that wasn’t used in court,and if they were they would have screamed that.
Guess they will have to stick with the overdue library book (THAT WAS STOLEN)plea.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 are you purposely trying to avoid what I am saying? You admitted they let Hillary slide. Can’t you see what that indicates? How about Hunter’s laptop? They let that slide until after the election. If the FBI were NOT political, it would have been a huge deal to have a presidential candidate’s son’s laptop with all sorts of data that implicates him in crooked behavior and implicates the candidate as well. What if it had been Don Jr’s laptop? Would you have been okay with the FBI sitting on it and telling Facebook to treat it as disinformation?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

W H A T A B O U T ! ! !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Hunters Lap top is pure speculation on the right, as for me admitting that ,YOU can’t admit your hero STOLE government documents that could very much threaten your nations security.
BUT no let’s stay focused on Emails from years ago,or what could be on this lap top.
BUT you don’t deflect oh no not you.
What should they have done about these horrible emails??
It was investigated in the end didn’t they find she was in violation of not following proper procedures in regards to these emails , and besides reckless there was no intent of evil doing.
And regardless of your claims she was deleting emails she didn’t know how.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Tropical_Willie secretly I think the fright wing are glad they did not do more regarding these horrible emails, that way they can use it as a get out of jail free card for years every time one of their Dark lords gets in trouble.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Maybe you should stop hanging out at what you consider a leftist Communist site and go to your local FBI office tell you have proof about Hillary’s server and Hunter’s laptop being leftist activity !

Don’t forget the pizza place and Pedophiles, they’ll love that twist.

HP's avatar

This one would have you believe the FBI office itself a leftist communist site.

flutherother's avatar

Hillary’s server and Hunter’s laptop, again! How do you scream on Fluther?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You got to understand @flutherother nothing is as bad as this server or lap top.
NOT stolen documents,not classified documents,nothing this is just an overdue library book the feft is getting all worked up about.
I wonder how many times the fright wing can play that card?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I think if Trump went out and shot someone in public, we know who would give him another clip to shoot into the person of color or LGBTQ !

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Hunter’s laptop WAS called a conspiracy theory, fake news and disinformation. Right up until the NYT actually agreed it was a true story. Then you fools on the left could finally admit it was a real issue. Well almost all of you. Apparently you never got the nod to be able to say it was a thing. The issue to ALL of this is how the FBI/DoJ actually reacts. When Dems commit the crimes or what appear to be crimes, they look the other way or make it all okay for them. When a Repub is not wanted in office, they create issues…either lying to make a case or blowing something out of proportion.

And you keep coming back to Trump having classified materials. Yet you don’t want to talk about him declassifying them even though you have agreed there really is no procedure for it. And you DEFINITELY don’t want to have him treated the same way the FBI treated Hillary.

It all comes back to the corrupt FBI/DoJ.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I’ll reierate go to local FBI office; tell them what you KNOW TO BE TRUE ! !

WhyNow's avatar

@seawulf575 They say your hate is showing.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Even Bill Barr said the chances of Trump Declassifying the documents was improbable, and if he did in fact declassify them it would be a really reckless and a complete abuse.
Now say he did it, it didn’t make the documents harmless as you claim because they still would have had to be stamped and redacted,that they were not.
BUT that matters not at all,PLUS THE FACT THEY WERE STOLEN that you will not admit to.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also you fail to say how the FBI is controlled by the left when it’s head guy was appointed by your hero ?

You on the right are obsessed by Hillary’s emails you bring it up every time one of your Dark Lords get into any kind of trouble,like it’s a get out of jail free card.

The DOJ gave Trump over a year to give back the Documents, TRUMP refused, my god you refuse to admit that and you say we are fools.
TRUMP, not the Democrats forced the DOJ to use the search warrant to get back the documents, but oh no this was an evil plot by the left, and oh yeah the fake news media, man and you call us fools you really should look in a mirror.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

But @Tropical_Willie How can he go to the FBI when they are controlled by the evil left , and it’s fake news sources ?

HP's avatar

You notice, the wulf ignores all the issues around Trump’s guilt in this matter, and swings toward the ridiculous notion that the pig is somehow a victim of bias. The list of criminal transgressions by the idiot is staggering, and it is just plain stupid to imply that the idiot’s behavior is somehow counterbalanced by ginned up sideshows of Hunter’s laptop or Hillary’s emails. And you better believe, such nonsense will not get off the ground in a courtroom. The wulf’s deflecting conjectures mirror those of the pig, and its a story suitable for boneheads alone. The moment Trump insults the judge HE APPOINTED who authorized the seizure of the STOLEN documents and will oversee his prosecution, or attempts to paint the FBI and DOJ which are chock full of lifetime Republicans the biased slaves of democrats he’ll be shown the contempt he deserves. The wulf won’t go near the issues that actually matter, but skirts every one of them with sadly stupid deflections about yesteryears irrelevancies “Your honor, Hillary got away with it”.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Exactly ^^^ But Remember @HP we are the fools, he refuses to admit Trump stole the documents nope doesn’t matter he declassified them all, fellow Republicans are saying that’s ridiculous, fact is classified or not THEY WERE STOLEN!!
But again we are the fools for not seeing how corrupt the FBI and DOJ are.

seawulf575's avatar

@WhyNow Apparently it is hate to be worried about our country being taken over by Nazis/commies

seawulf575's avatar

@HP “You notice, the wulf ignores all the issues around Trump’s guilt in this matter, and swings toward the ridiculous notion that the pig is somehow a victim of bias.” What I am noticing is that as soon as I point out, with examples, the bias, you all start with, as @Tropical_Willie would yap, “Whatabout!” All you want to do is to say that because Trump did something wrong, everything else is forgivable. YOU are the one ignoring the issues surrounding the bias. Tell you what, I’ll do what @SQUEEKY2 has done a couple times here. I’ll say Trump did something wrong, but I believe we need to treat him the same way they treated Hillary for the same crime. Oops! That boat left. They already started treating him differently.

WhyNow's avatar

@seawulf575 I just thought it was hilarious, said with no irony and no shame!
BUT good writing standards were used.

“Hunters Lap top is pure speculation on the right,” ok

We know what Trump wants to do with those documents because he was
caught on microphone telling Medvedev about ‘Flexibility’...

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Gee did Hillary steal the Emails,did she refuse to give them back,did she hide them all over her house?
As for her deleting emails we know that wasn’t true because she didn’t know how,and how is it the exact same crime?
She didn’t follow procedure by using the wrong server and device, and email got lost by changing devices,and wulfie is convinced not all were encrypted but even encrypted ones would have addresses not encrypted,you want Trump treated the same ok let’s wait for just a few days before the election then have the FBI say they are reinvestigating the documents saying they found more or something like that.

HP's avatar

@seawulf575 that is the other knucklehead idea that no one in their right mind will believe—that Hillary and the pig are guilty of the same crime. Even you can’t possibly believe this. He is being treated differently BECAUSE HE’S DIFFERENT. He’s a straight up criminal. Answer the question, WHO owns the documents? Then tell us about the top secret folders Hillary pirated away and witheld from the National Archives.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP, let’s review….again. Did both Trump and Hillary have classified materials? Why yes they did. The claim against Trump is that he had them in a place they weren’t controlled. The claim against Hillary is that she had them in a place they weren’t controlled. They both denied having classified materials. When asked for them, Trump gave back the15 boxes he had. When asked for them, Hillary got rid of a bunch of emails and then gave up 30,000. The 15 boxes had classified materials. The 30,000 emails had classified materials. Both claimed that was all there was. The FBI raided Trump and found 100 more pieces of classified materials. The FBI eventually was forced to look deeper into Hillary and asked for her servers, she refused to give them up and agreed to let a company of her choosing look for any further issues. Imagine that…letting a suspect tell the investigators what they can and can’t look at. In they end, they found not only more classified materials but found some of them on the laptop of a sexual predator.

So far we are pretty much neck and neck. To say they did not commit the same crime is just a lie. To say Hillary cooperated and Trump did not is just a lie. But you nailed what the difference is. Because it’s Trump. Because it’s Trump, the FBI does not ask him for stuff, they raid his home. Because it is Trump, the FBI has falsified documents to frame him of another crime. Because it’s Trump they seek prosecution. Because it wasn’t Trump, they let Hillary destroy potential evidence. Because it wasn’t Trump, they let Hillary tell them what they could and couldn’t investigate and how. Because it wasn’t Trump, when the evidence was solid that Hillary was guilty of loss of control of classified materials, the FBI created a clause that the law specifically refutes and says she didn’t mean to do anything wrong. Hhhmmm….so if her loss of control of information resulted in damage to this country, that’s okay because she didn’t mean to?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

W H A T A B O U T

“Trump can do no wrong, he is the prefect dictator !”, So say the followers of the Don Father / Hitler wannabe.

Besides we’re sending him $50 to $100 s month FOREVER, we need to stop the steal.

HP's avatar

There are certain corrections to your narrative that require review. Let’s begin with the primary item that sinks your boat right at the start. And it is back again to the one you won’t touch. Did Hillary STEAL the documents in her possession? How about the pig? Answer that one! Next, as J Leslie’s article clearly stated, Hillary did not deliberately get rid of anything. Her emails were were lost when she switched plans and antique blackberrys. Those losses were further facilitated by the outdated and backward procedures of the State department itself. And your assertion that these facts are irrelevant or even more insane, that intent is superfluous to commission of a crime is just plain wrong and DUMB to boot. And to appear here and claim the matter of intent an invention cooked up to let Hillary off the hook—that one is the sort of lie, the absurdity of which I would attribute only to the pig. That business about the servers is also a pile of mindless invention. Hillary didn’t know a server from a cookie jar. finally, there was no order from a Republican judge authorizing a REPUBLICAN LED DOJ and FBI to seize Hillary’s records to which she was legally entitled possession. The cases ARE NOT the same. Forget all the peripheral reasons they CLEARLY are not and answer the question that destroys your case. Who owns the siezed documents?

seawulf575's avatar

@HP did Hillary steal the documents in her possession? Well, certainly not all of them. She just put them wherever she wanted. But we really don’t know if she stole them or sold any or anything else because there was not a real investigation. There was only an evaluation of what she wanted people to see. Did Trump steal his? I guess that’s a matter of opinion. Presidents often take papers with them as they leave office, whether for a little while or for permanent. But gee…he didn’t mean to do anything wrong so no harm, no foul….right? So shouldn’t the FBI just let it go like they did with Hillary? Will you please answer that one?

And your entire dissertation on Hillary is laughable. I have posted the law that was broken by Hillary a number of times on these pages. I will not do it again as it is a huge waste of time. Present you with the actual facts and you try dodging again, ready to believe whatever is convenient so you don’t have to say the FBI is crooked. But the law is pretty specific. Intention is specifically identified as not being an excuse. Neither is gross negligence. Which, by the way, is why Comey had to change his speech before giving it from saying Hillary was grossly negligent to saying she was extremely careless. To say grossly negligent says he doesn’t care what the law specifically says. It doesn’t really matter…he was crafting that speech before the investigation was barely started anyway. But hey, just another example of the FBI covering for Democrats. As for her not knowing a server from a cookie jar is likewise a scam. She was Secretary of State. If you are saying she had no clue about cybersecurity, you are only fooling yourself. Besides, she was told numerous times she wasn’t supposed to do that…all her business communications were supposed to be legal records…you know…that were kept in NARA? But she opted…knowingly…to ignore the rules. As for no judge authorizing the FBI to seize Hillary’s records, you are starting to get into the real meat of the issue and you are coming to see what I am talking about. They did subpoena her e-mails.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/04/27/hillary-clinton-emails-subpoenas-fbi-237712

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/09/the-fbi-files-on-clintons-emails/

And this one shows how the FBI refused a judge’s order to reveal what they had for a FOIA request

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-fbi-pulls-deleted-emails-from-hillary-clintons-server/

But again…you are making it all about Trump. The real issue is about how the FBI dealt with the two cases. Or really the three cases if you want to throw Hunter’s Laptop into the mix. But I will give you credit for scrambling as hard as you can to avoid actually admitting the FBI goes full throttle (and then some) to try getting Trump on anything and they do…well…nothing when it comes to Democrats. That isn’t entirely true…they go out of their way to avoid doing anything when it comes to Democrats. And that bias is the basis of a dictatorship, complete with secret police. Go back to all the bad regimes and what did they have in common? Secret Police, control of the media, and a divisive attitude that demonized a section of the society. That is what today’s Democrat party is showing.

HP's avatar

The FBI as the secret police? And who is it exactly that controls the media? And finally that divisive attitude and demonization business. You cannot actually name a single individual in the history of this country more divisive than Donald Trump, nor more noteworthy for the demonization of the processes,
institutions and foundations of this country. He is the living monument to the leaders of every one of those
authoritarian regimes you list above. And once more, the courts will determine whether the cases are equivalent, and Trump will go unindicted. And all that is required is for him to demonstrate that he was legally entitled possession of the STOLEN documents. What do you suppose are the chances of that? And by the way, who would you say OWNS those documents?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Might as well give up @HP getting a Fright Winger to admit Trump was wrong to be in possession of those documents, is like trying to get a cow to fetch,. If Trump isn’t found guilty to them justice came through in a corrupt left wing controlled system, if guilty then the evil left wing system won and got their hero champion of the people innocent of everything the evil left are accused him of,er by the way send $50 a month for the Trump legal fund so he can keep up the good fight against the evil left.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Now you must see since crooked Hillary, and Hunter were not sentenced to million years in a maximum prison the system is corrupt,also to help the right and their mobster boss can use it as a get out of jail free card for anything he does for the rest of his life, and uh send $50 a month for the rest of your life to help Trump the champion of justice keep up the fight, now excuse us the Don Father has a tee time.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

1) Donnie can do no wrong

2 ) Donnie gets caught “red handed” with National security documents in his closet at Mar a Lago, “the left is ganging up against him” ! . . . and remember #1

3) W H A T A B O U T

ragingloli's avatar

What is funny, too, is that he hides his blind devotion to the Orangutan behind the excuse that he is just “worried about our country being taken over by Nazis/commies”.

Beyond the obvious problem that he has no clue what either of these words mean, he is a staunch supporter of a guy who tried to commit election fraud by attempting to pressure states into discarding votes for Biden and inventing votes for himself, by supporting a slate of self-appointed, fake pro-Orangutan “electors” who intended to supplant the actual electors, and by pressuring Pence to illegally discard certified election results and declare the Orangutan the winner on Jan 6th.
He supports a guy who tried to abuse the courts to throw out election results with dozens of frivolous lawsuits, which naturally resulted in his repeated defeats, and the sanctioning of his pathetic group of “elite strike force” “kraken” lawyers.
He supports a guy who incited a mob of violent insurrectionists to storm the Capitol, prevent the certification of Biden as winner, and kill Mike Pence, who he is now dangling the carrot of pardons in front of, if he is re-elected.
He supports a guy whose supporters are now marching the streets, armed, and garbed in Brown Shirt style uniforms.
He is the one cheering on the attempted Nazi takeover.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

No,no @ragingloli Trump is still the one for freedom and if you don’t believe that he will have his goons beat you with flag poles, and hockey sticks, then blame you it’s all your fault.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ooops ,The FBI has found there were documents on nuclear weapons at Trump’s home, but how can that be Trump himself said there was no documents about nuclear weapons and he would NEVER lie so this must be a hoax as well?

HP's avatar

The right has invented some rather extraordinary fantasies around this. Take for example wulf’s dodge that ownership of the purloined documents is “a matter of opinion”. It is a worrisome thought and an alarming comment on the rational judgement of the individual responsible. Consider the implications with a crewload of such folks manning that nuclear sub he talks about.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Look at number 1 ^^^^^^^^

seawulf575's avatar

Dodge, dodge, dodge. You guys are hopeless. Hope the chains rest lightly on you.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

“TRUMP CAN DO NO WRONG !”

Cry of the Neo-Nazis.

HP's avatar

There it is again, the accusation that it is we who dodge and obfuscate. Who owns the documents?

WhyNow's avatar

@Tropical_Willie How do achieve such good writing standards so I won’t get
banned and moderated.

Maybe it’s matter of good political leaning standards.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

OK @seawulf575 could you explain to us fools how we are dodge, dodge, dodging, while you are the one that tried turning a question about your mobster boss to what about Hillary, and since her and Hunter didn’t get sentenced to a million years in a maximum prison, your hero should play the get out of jail free card because what he did in your eyes wasn’t a fraction as bad as to what they did right?

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
Every accusation is a confession.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah, I’m getting that with him.Thanks @ragingloli

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 The question is whether Trump will beat the Espionage Act or not. To determine that you HAVE to take into consideration how the FBI, the DoJ and the Democrats have behaved for the past 6 years. Part of that shows the extreme bias of all of those groups. You have to consider how they reacted in similar cases (Hillary). When you try saying I am avoiding the question, it is actually YOU fools that are avoiding it. Along the way you have screamed about how he violated all the procedures for declassifying things. Yet when (finally) cornered, you have to agree that there really is not a procedure that covers that…just what presidents have done in the past. So if there is no procedure, you can’t scream about him violating it. And that starts a whole lot of unraveling of things. You can’t say he mishandled declassified materials if he declassified them. And if they are declassified and he has them wallpapering his house, there is no security issue. If there is no security issue, there is no Espionage Act to cite.

But the dodging goes further. As I previously mentioned, there is a very similar case involving the loss of control of classified materials. That would be Hillary’s emails. In any legal action you have to consider precedent. So with that case you have Hillary guilty beyond dispute of grossly losing control of tons of classified materials. So then the question…as it applies to punishment…is why was she not investigated? Oh, yeah…she was…but only for show. In an investigation, a REAL investigation, a suspect is not asked for the evidence they control like the police are Oliver Twist asking for some more gruel. They get a subpoena and exercise search warrants. So far I am describing exactly what they have done with Trump. But they didn’t with Hillary. They got the subpoenas and then, instead of seizing the evidence, they asked her for them. She then destroyed 30,000 emails claiming they were merely of a personal nature and not what they were looking for. When does the suspect get to dictate what the investigators can and cannot see? When does that EVER happen? Yet the FBI went along with it. Why? What possible reason, if they are completely honorable and impartial (and non-political) would they go along with it? But it is questions like this where you all dodge. You have @Tropical_Willie screaming about WHATABOUT!!! and others then saying “But how can you ignore Trump?!?”. I’m not ignoring Trump. I’m trying to understand the entire picture. And the logical train of thought leads to all these questions.

So you have the FBI treating Trump one way when they treated Hillary an entirely different way for what amounts to the same crime. In one case you have paper, in the other you have electronic media, but the effect is the same. So now which is the REAL way the FBI acts? Let’s dig a little deeper. What is another huge issue we have seen involving the FBI and Trump and Hillary? The Russia Collusion scam. The FBI SPIED on American citizens and not just citizens, but political candidates. How are they allowed to get away with that? They got warrants from the FISA courts. How did they do that? What evidence did they show to justify such an blatant political move? Why, evidence from the Steele Dossier, of course. Christopher Steele compiled a lot of data while working as a contractor for Hillary and the Dems. Who is Christopher Steele? He is an ex British spy. He used to provide the US government with information, but was discredited as passing bogus information. Who identified this and discredited him? The FBI, of course. But here he is again. He went looking for dirt he could get on Trump. He used Russians to gather much of this information. It was mostly hearsay, unverified data. In leftist speak it would be called disinformation. Unless it is being used against Trump and then it is God’s honest truth. And who commissioned this dossier? Hillary and the Dems. The FBI KNEW it was opposition research. They knew it was compiled by a foreign agent that they have long since cut ties with for the lies he spread. They knew he used Russian agents to get the data. Russia is the same country they later swore up and down interfered or attempted to interfere with the 2016 election. All of these are long since proven facts. But the FBI took what they knew was wrong and told the FISA courts that (a) it came from someone that cared about our election and (b) all the material had been vetted to be accurate. They lied, plain and simply.

But why would the FBI lie? They did the worlds worst investigation into Hillary and the emails and now they lie to get warrants to spy on Hillary’s political opponent. Actually that order is reversed, but you get the picture. Is there a tie? Of course there is. Hillary Clinton and the Democrats are protected and supported by the FBI and Donald Trump is persecuted. Yes, but is there any further evidence of this claim? Why of course there is…Hunter Biden’s Laptop. The NY Post broke the story of the computer repair shop owner that came forward with it. The laptop had been dropped off and never picked up again. The owner finally looked into it and found it belonged to Hunter Biden, son of then presidential candidate Joe Biden. It had all sorts of incriminating evidence on it…evidence of corruption from Hunter AND Joe. Evidence of influence peddling. Evidence of money laundering. All sorts of issues. And all of this came out in October of 2020…just one month before the election. The repair shop owner tried giving the laptop to the FBI and they didn’t want it. So he gave the story to the Post. When the story came out, the FBI suddenly wanted the laptop desperately. Why? they suppressed the story. They told social media outlets to call it disinformation. They put any investigation into it on hold indefinitely. Why, when there is a treasure trove of evidence that points to a whole lot of wrongdoing by a candidate for the POTUS, would they sit on it? They proved, just 4 years before, they were willing to lie to implicate a presidential candidate. Yet now, with honest evidence, the scramble to avoid it…much like you fools scramble to avoid the facts.

So we have a continuous example of the FBI treating Trump and Republicans far different than they treat Democrats. This isn’t saying, as you all claim I say (dodge), that Trump can’t do wrong or even that he hasn’t done wrong. What it IS saying is that much of what the FBI does in relationship to Trump is suspect from the start. They have a proven track record of being politically biased and being willing to lie and cheat to try setting him up.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The head FBI guy was appointed by Trump himself and yet you claim they are extremely leftwing slanted?
You totally believe the highly classified document were all declassified by Trump making them perfectly legal and harmless,that is where you are the fool ,those documents would still require stamping and redacting to make them really legal and harmless, plus they are the property of the Federal Government and they had been asking for them back for over a year and your hero kept giving them the run-around forcing them to issue the search warrant, if he had just surrendered the documents when first asked we wouldn’t be at this stage but you refuse to acknowledge that,why is that?
You just go on on about how Hillary and Hunter got off and they are hounding your poor hero to no end, your hero did this to himself.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

As for the Bias crap you consider any agency that isn’t diehard fright wing ,Bias.

HP's avatar

Hold on shorty. The DOJ treated Trump unfairly, and pampered Hillary by asking for her classified emails instead of siezing them? Trump’s documents were siezed better than a year after the National Archives, (by no means an arm of the FBI or DOJ) REPEATEDLY informed him he held documents that were not his and were in fact the property of the United States. The pig reluctantly returned half the looted papers, claiming he had returned them all, FORCING the government to sieze the remainder. The government gave the obstinate and stupid pig EVERY opportunity to comply with the law of the land, and the pig dismissed this unheard of leniency with a curt but stupid ” they’re mine!” The man is an idiot and you must understand what the rest of us must conclude regarding anyone such as yourself who goes along with “they’re mine”. And as SQUEEK says not only is the head of the FBI a lifelong Republican, the very judge issuing the warrant authorizing siezure is a TRUMP appointee. YOU CANNOT DISPUTE A SINGLE ONE OF THESE FACTS. WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I’m all for justice, not for bullshit. I consider any government agency that is biased to be one that is not worthy of my respect. As for the rest…look at how you dodged. “the head FBI guy is…” And “NARA says…” You entirely avoid every single factual thing I listed that shows exactly how crooked and biased the FBI is. Tell you what…explain to me why, when the FBI served their search warrant, did they demand any internal security cameras be turned off? That CERTAINLY isn’t standard procedure…it is likely the first time that has EVER been demanded. That’s like cops demanding that people turn off their cell phones while they beat the tar our of a handcuffed person. So why would these bastions of equanimity suddenly do that?

You say Trump made the FBI serve a search warrant. He gave back the 15 boxes of documents that NARA was asking for LONG before the FBI got the search warrant. what was the basis of the search warrant, or even for the FBI getting involved? NARA said DONALD TRUMP might still have some documents. They weren’t even sure and couldn’t actually say anything was missing. So how exactly did Trump Make the FBI raid his house? do you even hear yourself any more? And all of this is a complete dodge…avoiding all the evidence I just showed you as to how corrupt the FBI is. You won’t actually address that because that puts a pin into everything they do.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump is toast !

HP's avatar

The 15 boxes the pig returned were short several documents that NARA KNEW were missing, some of them of great sensitivity. In view of the pig’s track record the bureau put the matter in front of TRUMP’S OWN APPOINTED JUDGE who agreed with the bureau and issued the warrant. The items were siezed, and identified as many of the missing items. WHERE IS THE BIAS? WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS?

HP's avatar

Which of those FACTS do you dispute? You are bringing up the emails and laptop to argue the pig should be excused for the open theft and illegal possession of STOLEN CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS. That’s a pile regardless of hunter’s laptop or hillary’s emails. And the “secret police” will have no trouble with this case. The crimes are beyond reasonable dispute snd you know it.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP “The DOJ treated Trump unfairly, and pampered Hillary by asking for her classified emails instead of siezing them? Trump’s documents were siezed better than a year after the National Archives, (by no means an arm of the FBI or DOJ) REPEATEDLY informed him he held documents that were not his and were in fact the property of the United States.” Huh. Well, gee…you got me there….Trump was so much different than Hillary! Or was he?

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/politics/hillary-clinton-email-timeline/index.html

Let’s review the timeline.

2009 Hillary knows about the rule that says federal records sent via personal email need to be maintained as records.

2012 Hillary starts using Google as a back up server.

2013 Guccifer hacks her emails showing she used her private server to send business info. Hillary moves from Google to McAfee as a back up server.
And here’s a fun one: “September 2013 – National Archives and Records Administration clarifies that personal email can only be used in “emergency situations” and that emails from personal accounts should be captured and managed in accordance with agency record-keeping practices.”

2014 The State Dept requests all former secretaries to turn over all records for proper preservation. Hillary turns over 30,000 which is not all the emails she had. She deleted a whole bunch, completely out of line with the NARA rules. Isn’t it the NARA rules you are prattling on about with Trump? Then, at the end of 2014, Obama (your boy) signs into being a “clarification” of the records retention rules saying they can use private servers providing they forward all records used on them to their government server within 20 days.

2015 – Now it starts getting juicy. Hillary’s spokesman actually uses the excuse that Hillary, as secretary of state, figured that record retention was the sole responsibility of the people she sent the emails to. That is, of course, completely out of line with the law or with common decency. In your way of thinking, that’s something “the pig” would do.
But then, the very next day, the House Committee looking into the Benghazi debacle (Hillary) issues a subpoena for all her emails having to do with Libya. That was March 4th, 2015. On the 5th of March it gets revealed that she isn’t listed as the owner of her domain and that she uses dummy companies to further muddy the waters of her involvement.

But the parts that are particularly telling is that in June of 2015, emails showed that NARA was asking for her emails to be preserved before she left office 2 years before. And that was never done.

But you can read as well as I can. They ask for her server and all the emails. the emails come out in dribs and drabs. the server is wiped clean before being turned over. Yet even the stuff she turned over was yielding more and more classified materials. She lied, she purposely violated the rules, she lost control of the classified materials which is a violation of federal law. Then, in Jan of 2016, the IG releases a statement that some of the emails that had been found to meet the highest Top Secret classification they have. Hillary responds not with apology, but by claiming it is a ruse to damage her presidency. Kinda like what she tried to do to Trump and what the FBI continues to do to Trump. And let’s not forget the big dodge she tried… @Tropical Willies famous “WHATABOUT!!!” What about Colin Powell? What about Condaleeza Rice? They even went back to look. They found Powell’s records contained 2 emails that could be considered classifed and Rice had 10. Hillary had literally thousands of emails that were classified.

And STILL the FBI did nothing. No, that’s not entirely true. Despite losing control of thousands of pages of classified materials, despite destroying evidence, despite stonewalling the investigations, despite lying to Congress…they took the action to let her off without any sort of punishment at all.

SO…Obviously Hillary held out years longer than Trump, so your argument about the time is bunk. Hillary lied about having classified materials. The FBI did NOTHING about the crimes except make exceptions for her. So how exactly is Trump’s case so much worse? She lost control of 10x the amount of classified materials (at least) as Trump had…and he turned them over.

Tell you what…answer your own question WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS! and apply it to Hillary. What do you come up with?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Anything or anyone, or any agency that doesn’t adhere to strict fight wing guide lines is horribly corrupt.
First I heard the FBI wanted Mar a lago’s cctv camera shut off, I did hear they wanted no one present while they searched but later found out a number of the Don Fathers Lawyers were present at the search.
YOU keep going on on how he waved his little hands over these said documents making them safe for all except even Bill Barr said if he did do that which was very improbable it would have been extremely reckless, and these now safe documents still would have been very dangerous in the wrong hands.
Look we are never going to change your mind about the Don Father to you he can do no wrong and the whole world is out to get him .
And you are going to use the Hilary (get out of jail free card ) for I guess till the end of time, every time one of your holy fright wingers is in trouble it will be BUT,BUT Hillary all over again.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I thought that article that a Jellie posted saying Hillary was computer stupid she did not know how to delete emails,YES emails were indeed lost when she switched devices but actually deleting them I don’t think so,also you act like every last email she had was highly classified that was false in the end there was less than 10 that were actually highly classified, you also act that every last email was not encrypted I will even give that some may not have been , but how do you know the highly classified were not?
We are just going on you bias view of her.

HP's avatar

I’ll gladly answer. Hillary owned the documents in her possession, and as far we know stole nothing upon leaving office. I have no problem with understanding the difference between fumbling documents to which she was legally entitled, and the pig’s theft of documents not his own. There IS a difference. And @SQUEEKY2, this guy is going to flat out ignore @JLeslie ‘s article, claiming that intent is irrelevant in the commission of a crime. The dream situation would be wulfie here as Trump’s lawyer. He does not dispute a single word in our narrative on the process of Trump’s treatment, yet will not offer any reasonable alternative path for the FBI. Instead he sits here to claim the pursuit of the most egregious and criminal President in history is proof of bias and the FBI the equivalent of the secret police. It’s straight up crap.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP they were classified documents. How can she own them?!? They were illegal for her to have them. She was repeatedly asked to give them up and didn’t. She did EXACTLY what you are saying Trump did. And please note: she was out of office for years before they finally got around to making reasons up for not prosecuting her. Even you know you are lying and trying desperately to avoid the obvious. THIS is what I mean when I say you fools Dodge.

Intent IS irrelevant in the commission of the crimes Hillary committed because the law specifically states that it is irrelevant. Again…make stuff up so you can say it was all okay to go down the way it did…that the FBI is really fair and unbiased. You can’t be that stupid.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 There were more than 10 emails that Hillary had that were Top Secret. Let me fill you in on classifications. There are generally 3 levels: Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. Confidential is the lowest level. But even Confidential materials can have things that you wouldn’t necessarily want everyone to know. Trying to down play that is a dodge.

Saying Hillary doesn’t know how to delete emails is a joke, right? Or is this just the typical lefty dodge….she was incompetent, not criminal? That is ALWAYS the excuse. Let me ask you…do you REALLY believe she didn’t know how to delete emails? Do you really believe she didn’t have a team of people that were helping her?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “And you are going to use the Hilary (get out of jail free card ) for I guess till the end of time, every time one of your holy fright wingers is in trouble it will be BUT,BUT Hillary all over again.” When the FBI acts so radically differently between how they treat Democrats and how they treat anyone other than Democrats then yes, I will continue to bring out Hillary as a way to expose the hypocrisy and the bias. I said before…use Hillary as the precedent since that is what she is…especially in this case. By that precedent, the FBI will only go through the motion and then let the offender off without even a slap on the wrist. Anything else by them is bias…political bias. And when a national police force has that gross of a political bias, it is only half a step from tyrannical rule.

flutherother's avatar

@seawulf575 Your thinking is contaminated by politics. You assume the FBI is biased because it is investigating Trump. If you concede that Trump may be guilty you don’t demand justice, you demand that someone else should also be found guilty to achieve some kind of political balance. That’s not justice, that is justice contaminated by politics.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

The FBI is going back to Mar a Lago with another search warrant ? ? They seem to know there are more missing National security documents that Trump had control of while in the WH!

WhyNow's avatar

@flutherother The manner of the FBI investigation on Trump is suspect because it seems
to be kinda politically bias. Maybe not to you or me but to his followers for sure. If you say
the FBI has no bias, than it only takes one name to refute this… Peter Strzok.

It also kinda feels like J6 is not getting desired results, So we seem to be moving on to
Mar A Lago.

Mar A Lago is not producing enough bang so the trickle of leaks is sure to be ongoing.

And now we are moving to some kind of campaign scandal. I read @seawulf575 posts
and he repeatedly and often says he wants to see justice in this investigation!

I won’t ask if you understand what I’m saying but surely you kinda maybe almost see
why large parts of the American public find this investigation ‘suspect.’

HP's avatar

The only way you might suppose this investigation suspect is if you accept the fact that the documents are the property of Trump. Of course there is bias. It is a bias against CRIME and CRIMINALS. January 6 WAS A CRIME. And it turns out that Peter Strozyks assertion that Trump is a piece of shit and dangerous for the country wasn’t bias, but the exact honest to God’s truth.

WhyNow's avatar

^ Without getting into all that. Seeing a team armed with AK Arnold Schwarzenegger
edition, all those police cars with their lights and the media conveniently there.

And no… those documents on trump property doesn’t make them property of trump.

HP's avatar

See your admission is the line that the wulf refuses to cross. And unlike yourself, this labels him a coward deliberately evading the truth. For if the documents do not belong to Trump, and he refuses to return them, what choice did the government have other thsn taking them from him?

WhyNow's avatar

If you did call me cowardly I would have to say, put up your dukes !

If I Were King Of The Forest not queen, not duke, not prince
My regal robes of the forest would be satin, not cotton, not chintz
I’d command each thing, be it fish or fowl, with a woof and a woof,
and a royal growl
As I’d click my heel all the trees would kneel and the mountains bow
and the bulls kowtow
And the sparrows would take wing, if I were king

HP's avatar

I too love the lion. What do you think he or the other heros on the yellow road would make of Trump, an idiot who actually BELIEVES he’s the king of the forest?

WhyNow's avatar

You really had to go there, I do not set my watch to trump time.
BUT
I will try to counter some of your arguments. So now put up your dukes!

I could be another Lincoln
I could do a lot thinking
If I only had a brain.

HP's avatar

And your little dog too

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother I don’t assume the FBI is biased because they are investigating Trump. Not at all. I assume they are biased because they handled Trump investigations FAR differently than they have handled ANY Democrat investigations. They gave Hillary a pass when they had tons of evidence. They squelched Hunter’s Laptop because they didn’t want it to blow back on Joe right before the election. They falsified documents to the FISA court so they could push the Russia Collusion fiasco. Your thinking is contaminated by politics. You see only one side of what I am saying and don’t even get that right. Your politics clouds your reason.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP, I have stated repeatedly that I don’t know what the legal status of the documents is. If Trump declassified them, then the worst you have on him is that he didn’t give back documents that he had declassified so they could be properly stored for posterity. Are you such a coward that you cannot admit that the FBI went WAY overboard for such a piddley procedural error? It is your gross derangement when it comes to Trump that makes you a coward for not being able to call out the FBI for political bias.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@HP “Trump can do no wrong !” ask any fright winger ! ! !

HP's avatar

Piddley procedual error—top secret documents in an unsecured basement. Which of us is deranged? Here’s hoping Trump will secure an attorney as logical as yourself.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

They squelched Hunter’s Laptop because they didn’t want it to blow back on Joe right before the election.< Really is that why they announced they were re-opening the email investigation on Hillary right before the election which greatly helped Trump ?
Seeing how corrupt the FBI are.
And @seawulf575 you sure are convinced those documents had been declassified making them harmless, THEN why is the DOJ, FBI and everyone else still treating them as highly classified?
EVEN DIE HARD Bill Barr isn’t convinced they were declassified.
As I said before there was a procedure about declassifying documents,and in the end if the President still wanted them declassified he could do so, BUT FOR FUCKS SAKE IT DOES’NT MAKE THOSE DOCUMENTS HARMLESS ,they still have to be stamped and redacted,they were not ,that seems not to matter to you but sure does to EVERYONE else.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And @seawulf575 Your judgement of the FBI is clouded by politics because they didn’t fry Hillary, you think they should let Trump go as well,and because they are not ,they are bias even with a head guy appointed by Trump himself.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “They squelched Hunter’s Laptop because they didn’t want it to blow back on Joe right before the election.< Really is that why they announced they were re-opening the email investigation on Hillary right before the election which greatly helped Trump ?” Okay! you are finally asking valid questions even though you should already know the answers. Here is a good timeline of the laptop. It was identified to the FBI in October of 2019. But they did nothing with it. Why? Because the Impeachment proceedings were going on against Trump. Why muddle up a perfectly good frame-up with facts? Imagine if, in the middle of an impeachment about Trump talking with Zelenskyy and the whole focus being on made up stuff Trump supposedly said to get dirt on a political opponent, the laptop surfaced and showed, once again, that Trump was spot on. That, indeed, Biden had potentially used the power of his office to interfere with Ukraine for personal gain. That would have shot the entire thing in the foot. So they sat on it.

The repair guy reached out to the FBI immediately when he realized what was on the abandoned laptop. This resulted in the FBI coming and getting the laptop in December of 2019. What they didn’t count on was that the repair guy had made a back up of the hard drive as a CYA move. He apparently didn’t blindly trust to the integrity of our government as you do. It wasn’t until July of 2020, after trying repeatedly to get hold of the FBI about it and reaching out to various members of Congress, that he finally called Rudy Giuliani. Rudy took the information and gave it to the Post and recommended the repair guy give the information to Sen Ron Johnson via a whistleblower program.

So the laptop was out in the open…finally. The FBI managed to keep it under wraps for a year. The FBI were notified of the laptop in Oct 2019, the Post story came out in 2020. At that point all the left-wing media and the Democrats immediately started challenging the validity of the entire thing, questioning the integrity of the citizen that turned the info over to the FBI. So much for that trust in the integrity of the government, eh? Biden came out and called it Russian Disinformation and claimed 50 intelligence people agreed. Yet throughout all this, the FBI was silent. Huh. They have the truth of the matter in their hands and they go along with what ends up being a total cover-up. Why? Because it is Democrat that would be hurt.

Now flash back to Hillary. Hillary’s emails became a thing of legend. Everyone (except leftist fools) know she was being handled by the FBI with kid gloves. Do they do that with Trump for the same crime? No. And Comey scrambled to put out a statement that no prosecution would happen because “she didn’t mean to”, so the entire thing could be spun in the media to recover Hillary in time for the election. Would they do that for Trump? No. The only reason it surfaced again before the election was because, in a quirk of fate, an entirely separate crime was being investigated by NYPD. It was into Anthony Weiner’s warped behavior. They seized his laptop to look for evidence of his attempts to seduce underaged girls. What they found in addition was a lot of emails from Clinton’s server that had classified materials on it. Sorry, that wasn’t the FBI trying to find justice, it was the FBI scrambling to suppress a story that just got bigger and actually shot a hole into their original conclusions and reasoning for letting her off. Remember part of their claim was that there was no evidence that any classified materials were ever released for the public to see. So yes, they popped up again, but not in a prosecutorial way, but rather in a protective way. They were trying to suppress a story that likely could have hurt Hillary much, much worse. It didn’t work though.

You are trying to conflate FBI involvement with FBI actually seeking justice. The two do not always match. Especially when Democrats are involved as the suspected criminals.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 as for the rest of your arguments, they are based on faulty logic. I can show the FBI is biased in favor of Democrats. I can show they have lied to violate rights when it comes to Trump. You cannot show the opposite. So what do you do? You create things that I said to make your points valid. Example: You claim I believe the documents Trump has are declassified. I have never said that. What I HAVE said is that is the question that really needs to be answered. And it hasn’t been. But you then take what you say I said and then say “WHATABOUT!”. You even repeat things that are lies that you have already admitted are not true. Example: You claim there are procedures for declassifying documents. Yet you have already admitted that there aren’t for the POTUS…just traditions that have been followed. Traditions are not rules or procedures. But you make the claims that there are procedures and then begin to dictate what those procedures say. You are dodging as fast as you can now.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP “Piddley procedual error—top secret documents in an unsecured basement. ” Prove those documents were not declassified. You can’t. Oh, you can give me what someone thinks, or what some leftist said on TV or you can always fall back on attempts to ridicule how stupid someone can be for even questioning it…but you can’t actually prove it. Why? For the exact same reason I can’t and I haven’t tried to. I have stated numerous times that the declassification is the key to the entire thing of Trump doing something seriously wrong. You, on the other hand, have tried repeatedly to just make those documents classified and go on with your hatred of Trump. Prove they were classified. Show me the citation from a legal source that says they can’t possibly have been declassified. You cannot because no such citation exists. As even @SQUEEKY2 previously stated, there are no actual procedures for a POTUS to declassify materials. Effectively he can state they are declassified and they are. It doesn’t matter what marks are on them…they are declassified. And if he declassified the entire thing, then technically it doesn’t need to be redacted. And IF he declassified them, then all you have is a NARA procedure for failure to properly store government documents. And THAT is about as important as the library telling you your book is overdue. That is certainly not worthy of all the hoo-haw the FBI and the DoJ have gone through.

HP's avatar

You’re quite a character. And as I said, I sincerely wish Trump has someone of your “talent” representing him at his trial. Do you really believe the government will allow the precedent that an idiot might declassify documents simply by snatching them up and throwing them in his basement? And that business about the library book. How about the library requesting the return of its overdue book, and me replying “its mine.” Do you suppose the library is not entitled to enlist the police in the retrieval of the book after a year’s worth of notifications demanding its return. And then again, lets suppose I return half the book and claim my obligation fulfilled? Let’s say the book is a rare edition and marked as such. The point is this: No idiot, believes that Trump is guilty of a petty crime. At minimum obstruction of justice is a SERIOUS felony. If you think he’s going to get away with “once I steal them, they are automatically declassified”, you and he are in for the disappointment you both deserve. And you, of course will parrot the scumbag here about bias and secret police. You should actually be perched on the orange dummy’s shoulder. WHO OWNS THE STOLEN DOCUMENTS??

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Face it @HP ole wulfie thinks the corrupt FBI is treating honest Don poorly and to him if he waved his magic little hands over them they(the documents)became as harmless as an overdue library book who cares if said documents are not redacted they are harmless once ole honest Don declassify them, so what if the rest of the Government is still treating them as classified,so what if in wrong hands they could do a lot of damage to your country, the fact is the corrupt FBI is bias and being to hard on honest Don, when they let the real criminal get away.

HP's avatar

It is too preposterous. Trump comes to power and suddenly the jails are overflowing with Republicans And this is proof of bias because Hunter and Hillary supposedly got a pass. Never mind that these republicans are hunted down by their fellow lifelong Republicans, sentenced by Republican judges, most of whom were appointed by Republicans including Trump. The same Republican led and mostly Republican staffed FBI let’s Hillary and Biden slide to aid the Democrats. THAT is what we are supposed to accept as plausible. Now just looking at the convictions of Trump affiliates, any fool concluding this fact evidence of bias is neglecting the only sensible conclusion: TRUMP’S REPUBLICANS ARE CRIMINALS. The only ACTUAL bias is against crime and criminals. LOCK EM UP!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

It’s probably easier to count the members of Trump’s inner circle that hasn’t,or isn’t facing some kind of criminal charge.
But still it’s the Democrats who are the real criminals,and if you think I’m wrong just ask ole wulfie.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 I have a question just for you if your hero handed you a firearm and said don’t worry I declared it unloaded and safe, would you trust him or still check the gun yourself??

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
It is like those fake martial arts “teachers”, that use their “students” to demonstrate how they can defeat opponents with their “chi”, and the students just fall over without being touched.
Everyone outside can see that it is complete nonsense, but the students are convinced it is real.
Some weird psychology going on.

HP's avatar

denial is not only a river

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Here is a short read on wounded narcissist,Ty Cobb Trump’s lawyer called him that recently, he is failure but refuse to believe that they failed, sound familiar.

“What seems to drive narcissistic individuals is something called “the Narcissistic Wound.” At some time in their life, the narcissistic individual is shamed or disgraced in such a way that they can never again truly feel good about who they are. Perhaps it is a parent or a critical coach or teacher. Perhaps a superbly timed and well-targeted putdown just at the moment when the young narcissist is acting like the star that he thinks he is.”

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/impossible-please/201401/the-narcissistic-wound

seawulf575's avatar

@HP “Do you really believe the government will allow the precedent that an idiot might declassify documents simply by snatching them up and throwing them in his basement?” Interesting question. It asks a whole lot more than you meant it to ask. In 2017 then President Trump had an interview with a foreign dignitary and discussed classified materials. At the time the Dems tried (and failed) to get him on the same charge. The problem that you are completely ignoring…desperately avoiding…is that the POTUS has a whole lot of latitude when it comes to declassifying materials. Merely deciding to talk about it to a someone that isn’t covered to hear it normally is enough to say he declassified it. I have posed it to @SQUEEKY2 a number of times and have challenged you as well…show me the law or procedure that spells out what the POTUS has to do to declassify something. He has even admitted that no such procedure exists.

So the precedent has already been set and it has been set with Trump as POTUS. So you are wrong in your thinking to start with. But the way you worded that…“the government will allow…” now you are opening a whole other can of worms. Will the FBI let it go? Absolutely not…it’s Donald Trump and not a Democrat. Will Joe Biden let it go? Absolutely not…Trump is a political opponent. But the interesting thing is that you don’t care how corrupt the Dems are as long as they “get Trump”. THAT is deranged.

HP's avatar

You keep repeating that dem crap, when you cannot possibly claim either the DOJ or the FBI political operatives of the Democratic party. You ignore the fact that most of the people investigating, judging and prosecuting Trump are straight up lifelong Republicans. It just won’t wash. But worse than the dem nonsense, you ignore the fact that the pig might just be guilty of the mountain of crimes of which he is accused. So dtop this horseshit about our secret police as Trump’s own appointees issue search warrants, empanel grand juries, and prosecute his criminal ass nationwide. The stupidities you spout here regarding this particular case will receive exactly the treatment they deserve in a court of law, but I’m not going to fight with you any more over whether documents might be declassified through theft.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP…you are in denial. I have explained it over and over again. You have not, nor are you able to, dispute the case against the DOJ/FBI that I have presented. All you do is keep repeating the same tired crap that it can’t be true.

As for “lifelong Republicans” take a look at someone like Liz Cheney. Lifelong Republican that is a Democrat in disguise. The Republican party is considering expelling her from their ranks. Her own constituents feel the same way. There is a name for people like her…RINO.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 Traditionally from what I found if the President wants something declassified he talks to the Vice president and department heads if agreed then it is stamped and redacted to make it safe for public viewing.If they can’t agree and the President still wants it declassified he has although not common, (but when has Trump ever been common)the power to do so BU T the document still has to be stamped and redacted a fact you have been dodging,if it is not then it’s not safe to be viewed by the public, the highly classified documents that Trump had were not stamped and redacted so the Government has to treat them as still classified regardless of what you or your mobster boss says.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Waving your “little” hands on August the 9, 2022 to declassify ‘cause he knows he is still President ! That just doesn’t work that way !
It needs to be documented! I think since the documents are mixed in with everything except underwear, another trip to Tangerine Turd’s digs is in order.

The “special master” cannot see the incriminating Top Secret and Secret documents only Trump’s personal items !

HP's avatar

@seawulf575 you can deride Liz Cheney all you want, but you know the truth. Cheney is one of the few hopes for this country and an exception to the rule—a Republican with a backbone who put justice and honor ahead of her political career. She shames the sniveling cowards she leaves behind in that party and history will mark her for the hero she is. It’s pointless arguing these things with you. I just enjoy the satisfaction of watching the entire Trump retinue being marched off to jail. My only concern regarding justice skewering Trump is in the probability he will not find a lawyer willing to defend him. I read this morning that his lawyer certifying that all the documents were returned the first time must now dump Trump because she herself must get her own lawyer and face a grand jury in her own prosecution. So it doesn’t really matter, because as you can clearly see, anyone involved with the pig is doomed, because you cannot be around him without him making you an accomplice. Who owns the documents you coward? You have some nerve bad mouthing Cheney. The conservatives deserve you. The courts will tell us which of us is in denial.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Thanks @jca2 hopefully ole wulfie will read that link as well but probably not, his mind is made up the FBI and DOJ is left wing slanted and just out to get his hero.

HP's avatar

Thank you @jca2. Another straw snatched away from the grasp of squirming wulfie. Perhaps the wulf will come to understand, just as all the other chumps who make the mistake of echoing the pig’s nonsensense excuses, you’re only going to end up looking like a fool, and probably wind up in jail.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@HP You do know that nothing will shake his faith of ole honest Don, but it is nice to see even if he can’t admit it Trump is wrong and hopefully will pay for it.

jca2's avatar

Cheetoh’s defense can’t just be “but I declassified them.” Anybody who works in government or has dealt with government at all (for example, registering your car, obtaining a driver’s license, paying taxes, etc.), knows that anything to do with government means procedures and protocol. Just because Cheetoh wants to declassify something doesn’t mean it’s an easy or simple procedure.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@jca are you trying to say Tangerine Turd declared he was Emperor Forever of the USA and declassifies the Top Secret documents at the same time on August 9th 20222????

jca2's avatar

@Tropical_Willie: Apparently, in his mind, he waves his magic wand and things just get declassified, voila! Then box them up, put them with the dirty laundry, take them out on the boat or in the VW bug for a tour about town, it’s all good, he said so.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

When you are emperor everything is good and when you are not CALL A LAWYER ! !

Tropical_Willie's avatar

His last lawyer, Bobb, needs her own lawyer, maybe Putin (no he his own problems) or Kim have a lawyer to spare !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Let’s be nice and play wulfies game and give him sure Trump declassified the documents, but then Biden classified them again so not being President at this time Trump is in trouble for having CLASSIFIED documents at his home since he is no longer PRESIDENT!

jca2's avatar

Ding dong the witch is dead hahahaha!

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 Interesting article, though it doesn’t actually point to a procedure that covers the POTUS. There are very definite procedures for declassification of materials by every other person in the government, but not the POTUS. And there is a reason for that. The POTUS is the Commander-in-Chief. He is the head on the horse. His power in matters like this are absolute. If he wants to declassify something, it can be declassified and doesn’t have to go through any bureaucratic nightmare. AND there can’t be a law generated by Congress to change this. It would be unconstitutional because of the separation of powers in our government.

Please note in your article that there is NOTHING that specifies what the POTUS has to do to classify or declassify something.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP First, the fact that you are supporting Liz Cheney shows how unRepublican she is. ‘Nuff said on that matter.

Secondly, you are back to the exact same sort of things you said during the Russia Collusion issue: ” I just enjoy the satisfaction of watching the entire Trump retinue being marched off to jail.” You swore to me then that “the pig” would be hauled away for that fiasco. You swore to me that Mueller was just building an escape-proof net to scoop up Trump and anyone that ever uttered his name without disdain. But you forgot things like facts and laws. That is where you all are falling down. You can’t accuse someone of violating a law if there is no law to violate. In this case you have a case ahead of you, legally, to prove Trump didn’t declassify those materials. Like it or not, it was in his purview. What the Dems/DoJ/FBI are really doing is political. They are trying to make this out to be the crime of the century because they are trying to discredit him. The forgot they already made the crime of putting classified materials anywhere you wanted a nothing-burger. By their logic, Trump can say “well, I thought I had declassified them so I was doing nothing wrong” and they would be forced, by their own precedent, to say…“well, we won’t prosecute him because he didn’t mean to do anything and really none of the information was actually released.”.

But hey, don’t let your poor track record of predicting that Trump would be hauled away in chains stop you. You are obviously deranged by the man.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Now he wants the US Government to pay half of the charges for the “Special Master”, wouldn’t need one if he didn’t break the law . . . .Talk about F..ing cheap. He caused the problem and now he wants someone else to pay. Kinda like Mexico for the wall.

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575: The law doesn’t apply to the President just because he’s the President? Can he murder someone and be immune from prosecution, just because he’s President? Can he walk into a store and take whatever he wants, and not pay for it, just because he’s President? Wow, it must be nice to be him.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Kinda funny. He had to pay for all sorts of legal issues when the government accused him of stealing the 2016 election by colluding with Russia. He wouldn’t have needed any of that if the government didn’t lie to create the entire thing.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 There are many laws that apply to the POTUS. That is why there is the whole “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” thing in the Constitution. Trying to deflect by expanding what I have specifically stated is just the argument of a weak mind. Stop it. I have specifically stated that I was referring only to the classification and declassification of materials by the POTUS. I have challenged all of you to show me the law that applies to how the POTUS classifies and declassifies material. None of you have been able to do it. Neither has the DoJ or the FBI. If they had…if such a law existed…they would have trotted that out and cited it as a block to the claim of declassification. That has not happened. There is no law or procedure governing the POTUS in this matter. Sorry…just accept it. It may be right and it may be wrong, but that is how it is.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Biden cannot readily classify materials again just to get the former POTUS in trouble. Once the documents are back in NARA, he can potentially classify them again. The other way would be to say that if you did something legally and then later on they made it a crime, you would retroactively be guilty. Not to mention, Biden would be using the power of his office to directly impact a political rival. Remember when the claim was that Trump did that when talking to Zelenskyy? You guys were ready to impeach him for that. Are you suggesting we should impeach Biden for the exact same thing?

JLeslie's avatar

I think the president can declassify, but I think there is a procedure for it. Even if there isn’t a procedure, I would think he still could be accused of mishandling the documents? From what I understand the documents were disorganized and not secured. Plus, he isn’t president anymore, so shouldn’t the documents be returned?

Why didn’t he comply with the request to return the documents?

They are still government records no matter how they are classified.

HP's avatar

@seawulf575 Not quite “nuff” said regarding Cheney. You can bet your cowardly ass she’s unRepublican. She, unlike you and those other Republicans has both integrity and a backbone. To illustrate my point, WHO OWNS THE STOLEN DOCUMENTS? Secondly, let’s not skip over that little item that ANYONE brushing against the criminal tar baby winds up in jail, disbarred, disgraced, etc. That all by itself should tell you where this is going. And you have not heard the last of that Russia collusion business. Just wait. And would you please stop pretending that you are actually as dumb as you sound, YOU who claim to have once possessed a top secret clearance come here to lecture us on how the DOJ and FBI are out of line for concern about crates of STOLEN classified documents in an idiot’s unsecured basement. There’s one thing you certainly have in common with that jackass, and that is a flair for the absurd. THIS IS EXACTLY THE CRIME OF THE CENTURY. This jackass is confronting the country with the proposition that a President can leave office and take whatever he pleases with him. The malevolent twice impeached dummy WILL be destroyed in the courts. The arrow points in but one direction, and you buddy like the rest of his apologists are on the wrong side of history as well as rational thought.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@JLeslie there really isn’t a set procedure for a President to declassify something,the normal way is he would talk to the vice president and the department heads if agreed then the document would then be stamped and redacted,. If they didn’t agree and the President still wanted it declassified he could do so and the document would be stamped and redacted, but remember none of the documents at Trump’s home were stamped or redacted thus why the FBI ,and the DOJ are treating them as still classified,the documents do have a procedure to go through once a President declares them declassified and that didn’t happen and wulfie is seriously dodging that issue.

JLeslie's avatar

Who does the redacting?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I don’t know, maybe the departments that the documents originated from but that is a guess.

HP's avatar

It seems logical that those classifying the documents should be assigned their redaction.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And if he wanted, he could just declassify without waiting for redaction or stamping. It isn’t the normal way it is done, but it could be done just the same. And if he is declassifying the information, redaction may not be desired or necessary.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That’s BULLSHIT the DOJ has said he very may have put human assets in extreme danger,seems like they should be redacted.
Also if he did the declassification while President in the White House you think those documents should have been stamped and redacted by the time they reached Mar-a-Lago when he wasn’t President.
Seeing how they were still stamped and unredacted the FBI, and DOJ has to treat them as still classified , no matter what your hero and Kash P claim.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So @seawulf575 You’re admitting it’s not the normal way it’s done so you can admit by Trump waving his little hands over these documents and not having them stamped and redacted ,Trump was being extremely RECKLESS?

HP's avatar

Either way, to claim this a piddling matter equivalent to an overdue library book is insane.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie “Even if there isn’t a procedure, I would think he still could be accused of mishandling the documents?” Of course he can be accused of mishandling the documents. By the rules, all government documents are supposed to be maintained for posterity. NARA is the receptacle for that. But this brings us back to the entire Hillary thing. She refused to follow protocol for maintaining electronic communications per the NARA rules. There were tons of classified materials that she was sending out to all sorts of people and she completely lost control of them. There was no accountability there at all. And yet, the FBI did not do a shock and awe raid on her home, they didn’t push for prosecution, they let her dictate what was and what wasn’t important for their investigation…the entire gamut. Yet that seems to be okay with all these left-leaning Trump haters. It is EXACTLY what they are saying Trump did wrong and yet they are okay with it when Hillary did it and it should be the Espionage Act when Trump did it. And the FBI/DoJ is reacting the same way. THAT is what I am talking about with them becoming the Secret Police. They have become completely political and supporting only one party. That sets our country up to follow the likes of China, the Soviet Union, N. Korea, Cuba, and Nazi Germany among others. When the secret police will persecute/prosecute people based on their political affiliation, it turns into a dictatorship quickly. They didn’t prosecute Hillary and, in fact, made excuses for her; they do a raid on Trump. Hhmmmm…

Tropical_Willie's avatar

W H A T A B O U T

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You have to excuse him @Tropical_Willie his obsession and hate for Hillary is limitless.

HP's avatar

Mishandling? No way in hell. He can and should be accused of outright straight up THEFT Of CLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS. That is the first charge. Next, his failure to return the documents after a full year of requests in which time he returned half the documents and LIED in saying he’d returned them all means a charge of obstruction of justice is as open and shut a case as the charge of theft. Once again WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS?

HP's avatar

To show you just how STUPID this declassification by simply waving your hand is. Let’s follow the logic of this and what it means. Trump says that he 0mentioned to underlings that he intended to declassify the documents. What then is there to prevent Biden from saying. “Upon taking my oath of office, I immediately reclassified all documents declassified by my idiot predecessor. I told Kamala and we both remarked on how that moron was too dumb to be alive”.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 the rules surrounding classified materials are interesting. I’ve dealt with them. What you can and can’t do gets to be pretty weird sometimes. But for the POTUS, those rules are not always clear cut. If he takes something and declassifies it, it no longer falls under the rules for classified materials. It doesn’t matter how they are marked (though that muddles the waters). If he only declassifies part of a document, then whatever was not declassified does need to be redacted prior to releasing. But in this case, according to what was in the FBI affidavit (pg 19), they knew Trump declassified all these materials.

Was Trump being Reckless? I don’t know. I don’t know what was in those documents and neither do you. If he released battle plans or the names of spies or something I would consider that reckless. But I have to say I doubt he would have done that. Not to mention so far there is no indication those documents went anywhere other than Mar-a-Lago…so they weren’t really released. They just weren’t maintained per NARA rules. Again…Hillary sent them all over and that was no big deal. Yet now it is?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ah but you see @HP while there is no real procedure for Trump to declassify documents ,there seems to be real procedure for Biden to reclassify them, get it right will ya??

seawulf575's avatar

As for my hate of Hillary, I would suggest it is your hatred of Trump that is the thing that is limitless and blocks the ability for conversation or reason. I use Hillary as an example because it is the exact same crime. Even worse because she wasn’t POTUS. She just flat out sent classified materials all over. Yet how it is handled is the part that bothers me. Not that she wasn’t prosecuted, but that she wasn’t prosecuted, the FBI made excuse for her, but they treat Trump like Al Capone for the exact same thing. It is THAT disparity that keeps bringing Hillary back into play on this discussion.

HP's avatar

You can argue over what’s in them and the extent of their importance. You can argue over whether top secret is stamped on library books. You’d be stupid , but don’t let that stop you. What you cannot argue about is whether or not the documents were stolen. WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS?

seawulf575's avatar

@HP WHO OWNED THE DOCUMENTS THAT HILLARY SPREAD AROUND? It wasn’t Hillary. She took government documents and spread them around, knowingly and without care. Finding them on a pedophiles laptop proves that. You keep wanting to come back to WHO OWNS THE DOCUMENTS? but that opens up the whole Hillary thing again. One more example of how the two crimes are identical and yet are being treated so differently.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

No we can’t know for sure but being stamped Top Secret, classified, and highly classified sound like they contained more than the recipes from the White House Chef.

HP's avatar

Trump is FAR worse than Al Capone for reasons that are CRYSTAL CLEAR. No one with the brain of a gnat believes Capone was ever a grave security threat to this country. Capone was many things, but NEVER a seditionist. The pig has been given more leeway than any open criminal in the history of this country. And the proof of this is upcoming and will be overwhelming. And did Hillary steal those documents? Are they laying around in HER basement?

WhyNow's avatar

As far as I’m concerned Hillary over the course of many years deserves scorn and disdain.
Trump is (in my opinion) a NYC cab driver. BUT

For a long time I just could understand the hatred for trump. Does he have a bigger ego
than Hillary? Slowly it came to me. Trump wants a smaller gov. Give jobs to (gasp)
black teens and Hispanics, and generally make America self reliant. He doesn’t buy
that 100 different genders stuff. He believes in live and let live, Do whatever the fuck you
want without trying to impose your beliefs on others. And that children should stay innocent.

Leftists cannot have that: America (to them) was never great and must be torn down
for past sins. People not succeed without the government! And most important…
the dems must stay in power.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You know @HP the wulf may be right sending them to a pedophiles computer could be really bad there is no knowing what Mat Gaetz would do with those emails.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@WhyNow The right impose their will on the people all the time over turning Roe v Wade is one example trying to mix church and state is another.
Saying to bad to a 10 year old rape victim she was just going to have to carry it , then harassing the Doctor that did the abortion on that victim is another.
Yup but your right the right is all about freedom oh yeah voter suppression is another but yeah FREEDOM.

HP's avatar

It’s all bullshit and a hopelss duck and dodge to avoid the bottom line. Trump’s syndicate has already far exceeded Capone’s organization in arrests and convictions and he’s going to continue to set records. Rather than bias and witchunt, wulfie is up against the indisputable reality that it isn’t bias or poitics that has Trump in the hot seat in courtrooms nationwide—a feat Hillary or Hunter could not possibly achieve. It isn’t that the pig is Republican either. The single thing the wulf cannot get around is that this pig is a straight up dyed in the wool honest to God lifelong CRIMINAL.

WhyNow's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And yet if I mention Peter Fonda calling for Baron Trump to be locked in a
pedophile, you would call it misdirection, whatabout ism. and fright wing propaganda.

@HP I have the brains of a gnat. Though I enjoy your posts… I will not be sending back
all my diplomas’, degrees and plaques that my sister filled a wall with. Just to ensure that
I will never get laid!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Sorry @WhyNow I know nothing of this (Baron Trump to be locked in a pedophile ) thing you are describing, could you include a link that describes that?

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Well, Hillary turned over emails, and she did seemed a little inept regarding technology, and it seemed she was trying to make communicating easier not doing something suspicious with top secret information. Her server she was using I think was the one set up for her husband, the former PRESIDENT.

When Hillary was recently asked about Trump and the documents and if he committed espionage, she said, “I’m not going to pass judgement without all of the information.” So, although she said it seemed like Trump was sloppy and disorganized with the documents, she stopped short of assuming or accusing him of committing a crime.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

We have to keep asking WHY did Trump have all these documents outside their normal storage areas, and what was he planning on doing with them, and why did he refuse,NO he lied about returning them when asked.
We wont even bring up why some were still stamped Classified, and top secret.
WHY DID HE HAVE THESE DOCUMENTS, AND WHY DID HE REFUSE TO GIVE THEM BACK WHEN ASKED?????

JLeslie's avatar

Yes, why? That is the burning question.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And all the dodging and reflecting from the right doesn’t get us any closer,and distracting but,but but Hillary,or Hunter,this right now is about Trump and why did he have all these documents and what was he going to do with them?
We can speculate, sell them?
Give them to his buddies Putin and Kim, we don’t know maybe just a trophy room at Mar-a-lago,
He can keep using the over due library book and see how far that gets him,but most people with overdue library books RETURN them not lie about having them.
Trump most likely will slime his way out of this,then can we say it’s all because the FBI, and DOJ are corrupt?
TRUMP’s legal problem are far more than these documents ,the election fraud like asking Georgia to just find him votes among other things.
Like Jan6th inciting a riot to try and over throw the us government and kill his vice president.
Or the tax fraud charges he is facing in New York.
GEE , it’s like the whole world is out to get ole honest Don, NOPE just hold him accountable for his actions.
I know but,but ,but , whatabout Hillary and Hunter,sssshhh this isn’t about them right now it’s about honest Don lets see where it goes.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

There are three things Rep/Con can’t say:

Climate change

Trump might be guilty

Hillary might be innocent.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Or they have gone to far on their stance about abortion.^
Or ever admit they were wrong about anything.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP ” And did Hillary steal those documents? Are they laying around in HER basement?” By your definition, yes, she did. The rules for electronic records was extremely clear when she was appointed Sect of State. She willfully refused to obey them because they were inconvenient to her. NARA was asking her for the information for more than a year and she was saying she didn’t have any. She, of course, refused to let anyone look. She was subpoenaed and she refused to comply with it as well. But were they laying around in HER basement? Partly…they were in the server. But more importantly she just blatantly sent it all over the place…and no one really knows how far it went. She could have sent it to China or Russia and we just plain wouldn’t know because she lost control of them! So yeah, she did steal them and yes, they were in her basement and many, many other places as well.

Face it…you are struggling to make it alright for Hillary and criminal for Trump because you have TDS.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Yes, Hillary did turn over the files. After she tried deleting them and after she testified she had turned in everything and after it came out she hadn’t. And then they found more on Weiner’s laptop. In other words, she did what Trump did, only on a grander scale and took more time to finally get the data. And they had to pry it out of a wiped hard drive. Don’t pretend that she somehow did okay and for God’s sake please stop repeating the “she’s incompetent, not criminal” excuse. She uses that one every time. Most Democrats do. If she is incompetent why do the Dems cling to her so much? Besides, the law is specific that ignorance or intent are not excuses for losing control of classified materials. And in this case, there are laws dictating how classified materials are to be take care of because she was not POTUS.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

But you don’t dodge, or distract do you? @seawulf575
OK lets do this it’s been years as you claim since the Hillary Email scandal there must have been a damage assessment done right? so how much damage has been done for her sloppy care of these emails?And you act like she sent them to any and all email addresses she could come up with, was every last email highly classified ?
Maybe she can use the overdue library book plea like your hero seeing how these two crimes are so alike,

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Incompetence does not get you out of a criminal charge. I’m only talking about intention. We don’t know Trump’s intention.

I’m not piling on saying Trump was going to sell documents to the Russians, you have me confused with someone else. We don’t know what he’s done or planned to do.

If you are going to compare Hillary to Trump, then go ahead. If Trump communicated top secret information on his private phone then are you ready to lock him up? Just wondering how fairly you apply things. Did Hillary actually do that? I don’t even know. I’m not on this Q saying Trump will go to jail.

Trump has been incredibly destructive to this country. Siding with the Christian Nationalists and White Supremacists for votes is a dangerous game. People want to take Trump down to stop him from helping and inciting those groups.

HP's avatar

But again Squeek, Hillary did not steal her book, claim it was hers to keep, nor refuse to give it back. Nor was anyone required to forcibly retrieve it from her while she whined like a sissy about biased mistreatment at the hands of a police state. If Hillary is guilty of a crime, she’s a bigger man the orange pig about it.

WhyNow's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
https://www.thewrap.com/boundaries-star-peter-fondas-threatening-barron-trump-tweet-puts-sony-classics-film-hot-seat/
About 244,000 results (0.65 seconds)
You didn’t hear about this… I am shocked shocked!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I agree, wulfie says Trump had no evil plans when he took thousands of documents some highly classified(oh yeah he waved his little hands over them declassifying them) out of the white house to his home in Florida ,refused to give them back when they were asked for forcing the corrupt FBI to get a search warrant to get the documents they were after and nothing wrong here it’s in the same category as an overdue library book, NOW lets forget TRUMP it’s the evil Hillary we need to focus on by now she probably has lost millions of highly classified emails most probably have gone straight to Russia although I don’t know why.

HP's avatar

This business irritates me considerably. And particularly wulf and his ilk brandishing this crap about the mistreatment of a slug the magnitude of Trump. The wulf refuses to recognize the blatant inconsistencies in every one of his arguments, and never fails to shoot holes in his own positions. This page is littered with his circular logic, contradictions and just plain foolery. Today’s topper has to be his assertion that Liz Cheney is a Democrat in disguise and being expelled because of it. Wulf can’t think even a paragraph ahead to appreciate the implication in his position. What is it that makes Liz Cheney both un Republican and a Democrat? It’s the fact that unlike her fellow Republicans she has integrity and the BALLS to stand up and do what’s right.

WhyNow's avatar

And then there the case Hillary Clinton laughing at a 12 year old rape victim,
giggling caught on tape. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Shelton
About 1,470,000 results (0.60 seconds)

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@WhyNow where are you going with this Hillary is no saint I will give ya that are you like wulfie trying to get the attention off Trump?
Maybe you can find something bad she did as a 10 year old, that will get everybody’s attention off captain bone spurs,and you fright winger accuse us at dodging and deflection.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@WhyNow maybe on something . . .

jca2's avatar

Hilary is not running for anything. She’s water under the bridge.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Have you heard Trump wants the Government (tax payers) to pay half the cost of the special master he wants,the man blatantly doesn’t want to pay his own bills he is a winner I know let’s blame Hillary for this too.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Not to the Fright wing @jca2 she is their get out of jail free card for anything crooked they do for the next hundred years.

jca2's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: Yeah we’ll be hearing them bitch about Hillary until the day we die.

HP's avatar

And it’s the best they can do. Trump is being charged with a shitload of crimes. How many times can maga heads wheel out Hillary & Hunter as the tired evidence of bias and the FBI /DOJ cohort the supposed vigilantes of the Democratic party. It’s pure poppycock for the feeble minded.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “But you don’t dodge, or distract do you?” Nope. I’ve been consistent in my arguments in this entire thread. You originally asked if Trump will beat the Espionage charge. I addressed it using precedent set by the FBI. I also pointed out (and proved) how politically motivated and biased the FBI/DoJ have become. This is important because it plays back into what they try to do to Trump. You don’t like that precedent so you suddenly start screaming “whatabout!” and other idiotic ways of actually trying to avoid the conversation. I have brought it back to point repeatedly and you leftists always try to avoid it. You are dodging. There is a case very, very similar to what is going on with Trump. I’d suggest the FBI follow the precedent THEY SET but it’s too late for that. They are incapable at this point of being impartial.

You have repeatedly tried taking the conversation to a point it doesn’t necessarily go by screaming about all the vast secrets Trump has at his home. This is a bogus argument because (a) you have no idea what is on those classified papers and (b) you have no idea if legally they were declassified. But it makes for great fear mongering that get the other fools piling on….not having any more of a clue than you. This could be considered a dodge as well.

You keep trying to deflect by saying I’m making it all about Hillary. But again…it was the left and the FBI/DoJ that set that precedent. And the point I am making that you REALLY don’t like is how biased the FBI is. They treat one political party one way and anyone else another. That isn’t a defense of Trump nor is it a call to hurt Hillary. It is a condemnation of the FBI/DoJ. And that condemnation has played out in many countries over the decades with many governments having the exact same situation…the state police suddenly being a political tool. In every single case that has led to a tyrannical rule by the favored party. And in every single case, that nation has been reduced to a pit of oppression and fear. But hey, if that’s what you favor, I guess that tells me all I need to know about the quality of the jellies on this site. Either you WANT the US to become a 3rd world nation or you are too stupid to see it happening. Either way, it doesn’t show you to have much wit.

jca2's avatar

To be accurate, the real answer to “Do you think Trump will beat the espionage charge” is “let’s see. Only time will tell. Who knows?” Because that is the real answer. Hours and hours of arguing about something which we can’t predict. Stranger things have happened, and who knows what lawyers on both sides will argue, and who knows what will be decided?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie you have been consistent in saying those documents being declassified makes them harmless which I find bullshit because unless they have been redacted they are far from harmless,but not in your eyes.
What you are ignoring Trump stole those documents and that bothers you not at all, keep bringing up yeah well Hillary stole her emails and refuse to believe she was computer stupid you make her out as some super computer wizard and she was selling those emails all over the world,sad is the only ones that believe that is you conspiracy believing fright wingers but as @jca2 points out Hilary is water under the bridge of years gone by ,but if you have proof she is some kind of evil spy selling classified emails to your countries enemies I would take that to the authorities,Trump is the one that is in shit with thousand’s of STOLEN documents that he refused to give back when asked but that bothers you not at all, plus you think the FBI is corrupt for having to serve a search warrant in order to get those documents THAT bothers you, and the ones that were marked classified,and top secret became harmless because according to you Trump declassified them so no fuss,so what if they haven’t been redacted they are declassified and that makes them as harmless as an over due library book,what I am getting unless your mobster hero gets a full pass on this you will just declare the system is corrupt and slanted left wing and just out to get the best President (in your mind) your country has ever had have I got that right now?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Remember ”“He who dies with the most toys wins.”

Corollary in Trump little mind – -

President with most stolen Secret and Top Secret documents wins

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well one thing NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW, unless your Donald Trump,.

WhyNow's avatar

I am so sorry I mentioned Hillary… I forgot about the statue of limitations for laughing
in the face of a 12 y.o. rape victim. Plus she’s led an exemplary life since.

And I’m so sorry for mentioning Peter Fonda, who fantasized about ripping Baron
trump out of his mothers arms and locking him in a cage with a bunch of pedophiles.

I will try harder not to piss of the jellies. (and the mods) I will!

Can someone say “Fright winger” for the millionth time… that cleverness still sends
chills up my legs.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And once again you try to avoid the entire point I am making. I believe you are either doing it purposefully or you are just really incapable of ever thinking of anything other than “Hate Trump”. That is what all your arguments come back to. I feel pity for you.

HP's avatar

Your pity is as useless as your arguments. Accusing us of Trump hatred is like accusing a doctor for hatred of disease. And your position of a biased FBI with Hillary the proof is the equivalent to telling us that doctor is biased because he barely concerns himself with your cold while strenuously involved with a cancer patient. You can call us Trump haters if you want. But you should not insult us or the FBI with accusations of either hatred or bias, then pull up a PROVEN, NOTORIOUS, CAREER criminal as your exhibit with Hillary or Hunter as the contrast. When you tell of your glory days on that submarine, I doubt if any of us take the cheap, thoughtless and stupid view of your position as blind hatred of the Russians. The FBI like you is simply doing its job. Keep that hatred NONSENSE to yourself and pick a “better” less sensational criminal as your model for Democratic bias.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok wulfie what is your point that I am missing is it Hillary guilty, Trump innocent is that the point??

jca2's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: Maybe his point is that the President is not obliged to abide by any laws. He can do what he wants and he’s above prosecution, and January 6th? They were invited in and that was a picnic on the grounds of the people’s house!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@jca2 That is what I am thinking if you accuse thier beloved orange god of any wrong doing they scream hater, liar, or what about Hillary everytime.
What gets me is their blind love and devotion to the Don Father it’s very cult like.

HP's avatar

There’s a truck with a cherry picker across the street now with some guys busy trimming trees, and the noise is bothering me. I think I’ll walk over there and ask them about their “hatred” of trees and their savage lust for mutilation.

WhyNow's avatar

^I am too feeble minded to understand that tree lust stuff.
BUT
You don’t think there is any trump hate? Really?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@WhyNow and you don’t think right wingers flip out the you’re just a hater card, instead of really answering a question about one of Trump’s many wrong doings?

HP's avatar

@WhyNow rather than ask if there is Trump Hate, ask if it is undeserved Does an exterminator “hate” roaches? It isn’t HATRED of athletes foot that makes you want to wipe it out.

WhyNow's avatar

^^ I would love love to point out all of trumps wrongdoings yes I would.

HP's avatar

Point em out?? They’re round the clock. They never stop. It’s 24 7 365. When was the last day you can remember passing when he was not accused of some new “wrongdoing”? And speaking of feeble minded, how many crimes would you guess Trump has committed in those 10 years since Hillary’s emails?

WhyNow's avatar

Yes! 24 7 365 I get that. I just would like something more substantial than what I’m seeing.

My parents met him on many occasions in the 90s and referred to him as a boor.
My father called him a cab driver. We kids never listened. My sister sang adio kerida
at an event he attended… to honor my grandmother whose family escaped from Spain.

I did not vote for him but I like many things he’s done since.

HP's avatar

g a for that one. It’s powerfully poetic. And I now understand your dedication to the pig. Your refugee family would approve. The pig puts Franco to shame.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 One last time. “Ok wulfie what is your point that I am missing is it Hillary guilty, Trump innocent is that the point??” No. It is not that Hillary is guilty or that Trump is innocent. It is that the two cases are pretty much identical with the exception of the declassification aspect. Either they are BOTH guilty or they are BOTH innocent. And the problem with the way things are playing out is that the FBI/DOJ was involved with both and gave one a pass and the other they are going at with everything in the book. THAT behavior by the FBI/DOJ is radically inconsistent and suggests a political bias of an unprecedented amount. To see if it is a one off, look to see other instances where they may have shown political bias. The obvious thing was Hunter Biden’s laptop. They were told about it and tried keeping it under wraps. As soon as the story broke, they seized the laptop (to do nothing with it) and began a campaign of working with media and social media to brand any discussions about it as Russian Disinformation. It has since been proven to be a TRUE issue, not disinformation, and they STILL have not done anything with it. It involves the sitting POTUS. It involves National Security. It isn’t a small thing. Yet nothing happens. Hillary – Democrat – FBI does nothing except cover for her. Biden – Democrat – FBI does nothing except cover for him. Trump – Republican (actually an outsider to the DC swamp) – FBI goes nuts making a huge deal out of it.

The point is that the FBI Bias is a HUGE issue that has been shown historically to lead to tyrannical and oppressive governments. AND that same bias will determine if there is even any prosecution when crimes are committed and how far the government is willing to go to “get someone”.

HP's avatar

Trump—Republican (actually an outsider to the DC swamp). The facts? Trump, a Democrat and outsider adopts Republican ruse for convenience, because those dummies will buy anything. Though not part of the DC swamp, he is already the subject of decades long suspicion and investigations of criminal doings in New York and New Jersey, and an acknowledged grifter, swindler and straight up thief.

WhyNow's avatar

The pig puts Franco to shame. Those dummies… that triggers me.
I will not even try a come back on the insanity of those statements.

But maybe insanity is why there is such volcanic hatred coming from
the head nodders

HP's avatar

Insanity is the pretense that Trump’s troubles are a matter of political bias rather than his outlandish and exceptionally pronounced CRIMINAL tendencies.

WhyNow's avatar

Oh phew… much better!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Let’s just see where the investigation leads, and hopefully criminal court case.

jca2's avatar

I’d love to see him wearing an orange jumpsuit to match his orange hair.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah @HP because they didn’t throw Hillary in jail for a billion years Trump should get a get out of jail free card as well seeing how these crimes are so identical,and if he doesn’t get a pass then the system is crooked and slanted left, plus horribly corrupt.
Hell if we can be rid of Trump I am willing to throw Hillary under the bus.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 If the FBI/DOJ had actually not been political weapons, if they actually WERE about enforcing the law, they WOULD have prosecuted Hillary. And if they HAD prosecuted Hillary, the precedent would have been set as far as what is allowed and what isn’t…what is prosecutable and what isn’t. THAT is the point you are fighting so hard to avoid. You can’t even admit the two cases are pretty much identical because to do so would be to admit the bias and political nature of the DOJ and THAT would make you realize how dangerous things have become.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I just said lock her,but lock him up as well!
You just said these cases are identical really you fright wingers lost your minds over the email thing saying how much it jeopardized national security,So now you admit Trump did the same with the documents well at least you finally admit it.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Trump has the potential to do the same as Hillary. There are two problems with your statements. The first, as I have stated repeatedly, is that Trump was POTUS and had the power to declassify them. The problem for the swamp is that they have to show he violated the law when no law exists. The second problem is that the FBI/DoJ already showed that illegal possession of and complete loss of control of confidential materials are not a real problem as long as you say you didn’t intend to cause any harm. That is EXACTLY what they gave Hillary as a pass.

HP's avatar

Yes, of course, and I am sure, that just like me, you’re looking forward to the entertainment we will all receive when he tries to pull THAT one off in a court of law.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

W H A T A B O U T !

WhyNow's avatar

^ You should tattoo that on your forehead.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Your Fuehrer god has it tatooed on the palm of his little ORANGE hands

Tropical_Willie's avatar

The right wingers keep bringing up WHATABOUT Hillary !. When it looks like Trump is backed into a corner.

Monday he’ll be in a corner with DOJ and classified documents,

DOJ may make him sign a document that there are no more classified items at any of his residences! That could mean perjury !!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Hillary is their get out of jail free card for the next hundred years.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The fright wingers go on and on but he declassified them making them harmless, so what if no one on his staff remember this order ,so what if they haven’t been stamped or redacted, so what if he put human assets in the field in great danger by them not being stamped and redacted.
Remember when the FBI went in with the search warrant TRUMP said they will plant stuff, then the next breath he said uh I declassified everything all is good( he declassified the stuff the FBI planted?)

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 . . . so what if he declassified them the Tuesday after the FBI used the warrant to collect them WHEN HE WAS NO LONGER President !!

Monday he is front of the DOJ, bet they get him on perjury next week !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

It sounds a bit funny but Trump and that Kash P guy had an affidavit saying he declassified them while he was still in the white house, and I know it may sound a bit funny that no one on his staff remembers any of this, but Honest Don wouldn’t lie he is the pillar of truth.

HP's avatar

Exactly, and you can bet Mr. Patel’s all but certain lying to bolster the pig will earn him the rewards of the dozen or so other lawyers who preceded him to prison and disbarment for the mistake. He too is now under investigation and has acquired his own lawyer. The problem with defending the indefensible is that it is impossible without crossing that line on the other side of which is the only land Trump knows.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

SssHHhhhhh listen can you hear it?? Witch hunt! Witch hunt,Witch hunt. and here comes hoax, hoax,hoax,followed by it’s all Hillary’s fault.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “The fright wingers go on and on but he declassified them making them harmless, so what if no one on his staff remember this order ,so what if they haven’t been stamped or redacted, so what if he put human assets in the field in great danger by them not being stamped and redacted.” Your derogatory term for right wingers is as old and stale as it is contradictory. Look at your own statement here. It is nothing but lies from start to finish designed to spread fright. “so what if no one on his staff remember the order” is a blatant lie. His WH Counsel remembered it clearly and the FBI knows it since they cited it in their affidavit to get a warrant. So that is a lie you are spreading to help make it sound scary. “so what if they haven’t been stamped or redacted, so what if he put human assets in the field in great danger by them not being stamped and redacted.” Again, you know nothing. Stamping and redacting is something that may or may not apply to the POTUS when he declassifies something. You are saying it to show he violated a law/rule that you have already admitted doesn’t exist. You are saying this to make it sound scarier. Additionally you talk about the human assets in the field in great danger. Which you know nothing about because you don’t know what was in the documents. But you love to throw this one out like it is fact because it is scarier and can help stir up fear. Fright Wingers? I just showed you several examples in one of your paragraphs that is nothing but fear mongering. So who are the ones that want to scare people?

HP's avatar

Fright wingers is only as old and stale as they are themselves. It is also about as dumb as they are themselves and therefore the only sort of language they understand. To prove it, you need only follow this thread to listen read how a conservative claiming former top secret clearance tell us we should not be SCARED because a proven idiot (much like himself) has crates of documents stamped top secret lying around in his undecured basement. To claim concern over such a situation a “scare tactic” is beyond stupid. It is insane. In addition, the proposition that the documents are stamped TOP SECRET does not prove they are is pitifully STUPID and every bit as ludicrous as the individual esponsible for it.

HP's avatar

Listen to the circular argument. The documents are stamped top secret. Therefore you can’t look at them. Therefore you can’t prove they are top secret. Therefore you have no right to be concerned that they are STOLEN and in the basement of a psychopath who believes he IS the President. You, just like the pig are unbelievable.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP, thanks for making my point. You are venting endlessly about how horrible it is that Trump has classified documents but really can’t tell me anything that was in them. You can’t tell me if they present a threat to our assets around the world or just showing the coverup for the various scams our nation has perpetrated. You don’t know, but you sure love to fear monger.

As for your circular argument, yep, it is circular when you leave out key pieces. But then that helps in fear mongering as well. I believe the left is the real Fright Wingers. Oh! the key pieces? Well, that little piece in the middle about Trump declassifying them. Let me help you understand with your same idiotic statements…put right. The documents are marked as being classified. As top secret documents, you are not allowed to see them. Even someone with a Top Secret clearance may not be able to see them because they might not have a need to know. But then they are declassified. Now you CAN see them because they are no longer deemed to be classified material and anyone can see them. So they can sit in his basement, they could be printed in the newspaper, they could be broadcast on the air waves. And they are still declassified. I know your TDS prevents you from acknowledging Trump was POTUS, but he was. And as such he has the right to declassify materials. He doesn’t need your permission, my permission, Congress’ permission….no one other than his own judgement. And that just rankles you beyond belief. You are a sad, little man.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

What is sad is that no matter what conclusion the FBI, and DO J come up with if it’s not just a total innocent you will scream they were just out to get him.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And if you just declare a razor sharp knife safe, does that make it safe for a 2 year old to play with?
And @seawulf we do know roughly about the classified documents because the way they were stamped, that is why your hero could have really endangered human assets in the field,were your Orange god may not have had a written process to follow on declassifying the documents, the documents themselves did have a process to render them declassified,and that process was bypassed making them still dangerous,and the only one that can’t see that is you,but I am the fool.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 The FBI/DoJ has already proven repeatedly that they are out to get Trump. They have proven repeatedly that they will harbor Democrats at all costs. And you can’t admit they are politicized. Their behavior casts doubts on all they do, it isn’t me assigning the doubt.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You are comparing knowledge to physical objects. Not the same. But to put it into perspective for you, the submarine I was on required special clearance because of all the strange things it could do. At one point we were in a Russian harbor tapping underwater phone lines. But interesting thing about this information. Back in the day I could have gone to jail for telling you that. In fact we had people go to jail for talking about it. Today, it has been declassified and you can read about it in print. In the day, it would have put people’s lives at risk to talk about it. Today? Nope. So again…you have absolutely no idea what was in those documents and just want to fear monger rather than keeping an open mind.

HP's avatar

And when you left the boat, how many crates of classified documents did YOU take with you? And of course the FBI and DOJ are out to get Trump. He is a BONAFIDE CRIMINAL and probably on the most wanted list of ciminals in more jurisdictions than you can count.

HP's avatar

And LISTEN to yourself. Of course we don’t know what’s in the documents stamped top secret. Just as a tank truck reading flammable gasoline might contain milk or coca cola. But you certainly must understand just how improbable such an argument appears. You strip yourself as usual of any credibility for our future disputes. You are in this thread, just plain wrong. And you fully understand that subsequent events will as usual prove you wrong once more.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP you are still a sad little man. How many classified documents did I take? None. I don’t have the authority to declassify them. But that is the point you keep trying to avoid.

And you know what is in the documents they seized? Tell us. No, better yet…SHOW US. Show me the link that says what exactly is in these documents. Not what is speculated to be in them….what is in them. You can’t so your entire argument is garbage.

WhyNow's avatar

^ Nice photo! Like a drug bust where they lay the drugs out
and make the photo available to the public. Very classy.

WhyNow's avatar

And of course CNN cameras happen to be around for a pre-dawn raid when armed
agents with drawn weapons and tactical gear swarmed Roger Stones’ house.

Roger Stone is a 70 y.o. attorney BUT dangerous because he is white and a
confidant of trump. The gov. showed restraint and did not use special ops.

The show must go on. https://www.npr.org/2019/02/01/690305364/fact-check-did-the-fbi-use-unusual-force-when-it-arrested-roger-stone

Tropical_Willie's avatar

D E F L E C T much @WhyNow

Stone is a convicted felon and Trump insider.

“The short answer: No. Law enforcement agencies often conduct early-morning arrests or raids with large numbers of officers and tactical equipment.” from your NPR article.

The ones that were WHINING were Trump and his band of idiots.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Trump is fucked, and his loyal lap dogs are pissed about it!

WhyNow's avatar

My point here was the show the gov. is putting on.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Swing and a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MISS !

@WhyNow

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@WhyNow The Government puts those photos out to the media ,for evidence and to show they were right at executing the search warrant.

WhyNow's avatar

Showing what intellectual giants you are (not) I think it was a hit.

But you show good writing standards.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The one thing Trump must be super guilty of this,or they wouldn’t be bringing Hillary up so much,and trying to say how corrupt the FBI is regardless if their head guy is die hard Republican appointed by Trump himself.

HP's avatar

Yes and every time he brings it up, the yawns and groans grow louder. Today it was announced that the judge he appointed who granted him his “special master” denied his request that the taxpayers pay the expense—the fat criminal tightwad. He has to shoulder the cost himself. Now watch him whine again like a little girl.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie You have a picture that has coversheets showing classification. So what? What is in the documents? Don’t tell me what you suspect is in them, don’t speculate on why they would be classified, don’t do any of the deflections you fools always do. Show me what is in them. And then Show me that they were never declassified. Still having the coversheet is not proof.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Isn’t it interesting? They gave those photos to the media. Why? Isn’t this a high profile case? Is it common to keep things under wraps while an investigation is in progress so that you don’t taint your chances at prosecution?

Another aspect of that which you know Trump will use is that the FBI DEMANDED that all internal recording devices (video and audio) were turned off while they did their search. Seems an odd demand, doesn’t it? If they are actually fair and honest, why should they worry about being recorded with security cameras? The obvious answer is that they wanted to plant those documents (or at least the cover sheets) there. And there was a period when they were in the residence where the cameras were turned off prior to them being turned back on.

HP's avatar

You know what’s interesting? The lengths you will go to in order to ignore, evade and distort what is in the open, undisputed and undeniable. Stand up and face it. You are struggling to invent ridiculous excuses for a hopelessly obtuse idiot caught red handed. You can claim this idiot is a martyr to the conservative cause, but you cannot deny that HE IS AN IDIOT. The premise that the FBI is somehow vindictively out of line and picking on the idiot ignores the fact that it is the National archives which set this entire affair in motion, NOT the FBI. NARA complained that documents were missing, that the pig had them, LIED about having them and refused to return half of them. Now——which of those FACTS do you dispute? After a FULL YEAR of efforts to get the pig to return the documents, what other course remained for the government to recover its STOLEN property? The FBI lays the matter before a judge who agrees there is probable cause, and a warrant is obtained. And your conclusion? NARA, the DOJ, FBI, the judge, EVERYONE Is in league with the Democrats in the relentless persecution of the pig. Over and over, crime after monotonous crime fkup after fkup, it is NEVER the fact that the criminal pig is at fault. Why on earth do you degrade yourself here with this foolishness? You know what we must think of you, if you expect us to accept this nonsense. How can you expect us to resist making fun of you when you draw down ridicule on yourself defending so obviously deformed a criminal as this pig?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ya know @seawulf575 I haven’t heard on any of the news channels I watched say the FBI demanded the CCTV at Mar-a-Lago be turned off during their search,I did hear they wanted to view the CCTV footage to see who came and went out the area where the documents were kept.
Also being classified we won’t know what was in those documents, but their folders tell us how important they are and some indicating they were from assets in the field.
Also how come none of your hero’s lawyers have sworn in court that these documents have been declassified??
SURE they claim that on the news,BUT not in court, GEEEE I WONDER WHY?
A left wing news source applied to view the documents if they have been declassified, and they got a reply back saying they have no information on these documents being declassified,shouldn’t the government have the information about their declassification, gee you would think so but after all I am just a fool.

WhyNow's avatar

We are starting here the premise that trump is guilty… because he is trump.
Why bother with a trial because ‘democracy’ is in danger. Whut?!

I’m also thinking that fizzling sound is this whole thing going nowhere. BUT
let’s wait for this to play out thru the courts.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I agree it does have to go to court,but if he is found guilty at the end of it will fright wingers accept the verdict, or scream it was fixed he had no chance it was a Kangaroo court?
Because to a great many of his followers he can do no wrong even with a dead body and a smoking gun in his hand.

flutherother's avatar

Why is Hillary mentioned 212 times in a question about Trump? Talk about deflection!!

jca2's avatar

@flutherother: “But what about Hillary?” Agreed, it gets old hearing it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

But don’t forget according to them it’s us bleeding heart democrats that do all the deflecting.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh I forgot to add, The Hillary thing is the Republicans get out of jail free card for the next hundred years, because she wasn’t sentenced to a billion years for the email scandal ,make it a free pass for anything the Republicans do for the next hundred years, stolen Documents ,bah what about Hillary, inciting a riot to try and over throw the Government yes, but whatabout Hillary, Tax Fraud who cares, whatabout HILLARY? see how well it works?
And remember we are the deflectors.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP once again, your hot air is showing and is just as unhinged as ever. You are self-righteously screaming that it wasn’t the FBI but NARA that started the entire affair. Yet NARA did the exact same thing with Hillary and the FBI ignored it. Back to that pesky political bias you are desperately trying to negate. Keep blowing. Your adherents need the warmth apparently.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2

https://nypost.com/2022/08/12/trump-family-watched-fbi-raid-on-security-footage-lawyer/

https://www.newsweek.com/eric-trump-says-mar-lago-security-cameras-captured-fbi-acting-improperly-during-raid-1732672

Just because you don’t WANT to believe the FBI are political weapons, doesn’t mean they aren’t nor does it mean that when someone tells you something about their slime trail it isn’t true. Maybe you need to get away from all the uber-left “news” outlets once in a while. Then you might get a full picture of things

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother “Why is Hillary mentioned 212 times in a question about Trump? Talk about deflection!!” You might want to talk to your buddies @HP and @SQUEEKY2 who mentioned Hillary 4 times before I ever did. It was only after they pressed the issue that I responded. It isn’t deflection when they bait the conversation but it is when I respond? Sorry…they opened that door, I just marched through it. And it does apply since the two cases are so identical.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 You said the FBI turned off the CCTV at MAR-A-LAGO that clip said they watched them on the CCTV how could they do that with it off?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also you keep skipping this tid bit, why won’t Trump or his lawyers say in court if the documents have been declassified,he has no problem on the news but not under oath wonder why?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Do you think his lawyers don’t want Trump to perjury himself ? ? ? ? ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Probably,but what about Hillary??

HP's avatar

SQUEEKY2 about that not stating to the court that he declassified the douments, you notitce that though he is stupid, he’s been in courtrooms so often now that he NEVER certifies anything he can get a lawyer to do instead. Which is why EVERY ONE of his lawyers one way or another winds up on the hot seat. There is no defense of the man that does NOT involve lying, save one. “Your honor, my client is clearly a compulsive liar and incapable of consistently telling the truth.”

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 When the FBI showed up they demanded the CCTV gets turned off. The servants that were there at the time did that. But Don Jr. got the immediate call and told them to turn the cameras back on. So yes, the cameras were off for a period but then were turned on again.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That’s weak very weak!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well I would like to know why Trump’s lawyers won’t tell the special master which classified documents have been declassified, he is saying without knowing he has to take them at face value and thats CLASSIFIED.

Also the state of New York has just found Trump guilty of a lot of tax issues to the sum of twohundred and fifty million dollars, is that the democrats fault as well?

WhyNow's avatar

I read somewhere (give me a chance to find it) that 99% of so called classified
documents are transcripts of phone calls, meetings etc. with foreign dignitaries,
and his lawyers. Also white house lists, guests and schedules. The other 1%
was calls to @HP

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@WhyNow still doesn’t explain why Trump or his lawyers will tell the special master which ones are declassified,because if they won’t or can’t he will have to take them(the documents) at face value and that’s CLASSIFIED.
It looks like they may not be declassified and that could get your Mobster boss in a lot of trouble.
But I know you can always blame Hillary for this as well.

jca2's avatar

The news I get is NYC news, and I wasn’t really paying close attention this evening when the story was on the 6 o’clock news, but they said something about the punishment being that Trump would not be able to have a business in NY ever again. I can’t google it now because I’m busy, so I don’t know if that’s accurate, but it would be a big punishment. That and millions of dollars in fines, because it’s not a criminal lawsuit, it’s civil.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump is TOAST !

His adult kids and company.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 After the FBI was in the house unattended and off camera, it is entirely possible AND probable, given their past performance against Trump, that they planted classified materials there that WEREN’T declassified by Trump. I wouldn’t try to give a list. I’d go through it with others that were present when I declassified them.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Right and until then you will be looking out for Jewish laser beams from outer space??

Tropical_Willie's avatar

HA HA HA HA @Seawulf5745 were those the documents Trump declared de-classified asking for a friend with PHd in law ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

What gets me if Trump is convicted, his lap dogs will say he is the victim of a corrupt justice system,doesn’t matter that he broke the law and is being held accountable ,NOPE corrupt system.

@seawulf575 No one remembers him declassifying these documents,maybe why Trump doesn’t want to swear to it in front of the special master, lying about it on the news is one thing lying to a judge about it is a whole different ball of wax.
But lets see how it plays out in court.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Of course people remember him declassifying these things. Kash Patel was present when he did it. He gave a interview about it long before the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago. What’s my proof? The FBI Cited this interview in their affidavit used to get the search warrant. It is a part of the public record. So your entire premise that he never did it and no one saw it is garbage. Granted, it HAS to be garbage if the rest of the fantasy has to remain intact.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Gee if it’s garbage as you claim then why not swear to the special master that they are declassified?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Let say you had 100 documents. You knew exactly what was in each one. Then in swoops the FBI, does an unrecorded raid on your place. Add to that the fact that this same FBI has already displayed, several times, to be politically motivated against you. Now they have 100 documents in their possession. They CLAIM they found them on your property. Do you know that they are the exact same 100 you had before? If you say yes, you are lying. If you say no, then would YOU swear under oath that they are the same?

jca2's avatar

The FBI are liars because it’s all just a huuuuuge conspiracy against Donny T! (being sarcastic).

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Of course @jca2 The poor Don Father is just a victim.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Good god @seawulf575 it’s not at all like your fright wing explaination ,the special master simply wanted to know how to identify the classified documents that Trump said he declassified and he and his lawyers wouldn’t say,because if they wouldn’t he would have to take them at face value and that is Classified!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well the special master has given the Trump team til the end of the month to prove the documents have been declassified, think the special master will accept , well I thought they were declassified I mean all a president has to do is think of them declassified and presto they are, I wonder if the special master will accept that ,I wonder if a court of law will accept it?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 The problem include several operatives (CIA) have ended up dead overseas since Trump left office.
Several of the documents imply peoples names in deep cover. He may have blood on his little hands ! !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh no,according to wulfie once the President declassified them they become harmless, wulfie wouldn’t lie to us.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

~ ~ ~ Ya you’re RIGHT.

But I’m really sure wufliie is far right !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

While I learned that a President can ignore all protocols and can declassify whatever he wants but the documents have to get restamped and redacted or they remain dangerous in the wrong hands and could do a great deal of harm, but fright wingers don’t think so and that is truly scary.

HP's avatar

@seawulf575 the 11th circuit has eliminated the question you refused to answer and ruled as I predicted. It declared Trump’s position without merit and the documents “the property of the people of the United States.” It’s over for the pig. All that’s left is persistent humiliation and debilitating news for the wreckage of what passed for the Republican party which comes to a boil right at the height of the midterm elections. Oh goody!

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I wonder if Melania has a prenup that includes dumping the tangerine turd and cashing out ?

LadyMarissa's avatar

^^ I heard a theory that Melania called the DOJ herself because she would get more money IF djts goes to jail than IF she chooses the prenup option. She’d also get rid of him for years!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Are not these King pins usually taken down from the inside, makes sense that Melania would do that.

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