Meta Question

Blueroses's avatar

Okay, Jellies, what is up with the hostile atmosphere lately?

Asked by Blueroses (17742 points ) October 15th, 2011

Long time users are dropping out or staying away. New users are feeling persecuted and unwelcomed. Every day, I’m dismayed to see people I respect hurling personal attacks in the threads.

What is going on?

Do we need a group hug? A therapy session? A change in medications? Shall we pass out the happy pills and have a good lurve orgy?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

224 Answers

Bellatrix's avatar

Very good question @Blueroses. I don’t know the answer but I wish we could find one.

Bluefreedom's avatar

I haven’t noticed this anywhere, myself, but it is a shame it’s occurring at all. Fluther is way too good of a website to have that kind of behavior going on. Hopefully it will diminish soon.

I’m down for the orgy thing, by the way. =)

Hibernate's avatar

A group hug with work a miracle.

Dog's avatar

I have not noticed personal attacks so much as an increase in people publicly snapping at newbies for spelling and grammar mistakes.

I really wish they would just flag it and let us help the person. Many of us who came here had sloppy spelling and grammar but learned to take the effort to write better. People should be gently encouraged to improve, not publicly scorned.

Unfortunately, if the first comment they hear on their first question is a slam judgement based on spelling, the natural reaction is to feel that Fluther, as a whole, is made up of elitist snobs and is a private club which they have already been rejected from.

Bellatrix's avatar

Absolutely agree @Dog.

marinelife's avatar

I had not noticed anything. Are you sure there is something going on or is it just the cyclic bad that occurs periodically?

snowberry's avatar

A new friend here PM’ed me this morning and told me she’d been told she had made “too many mistakes here” and would be asked to leave soon. She’s gone and I’m sad. She was quality people.

janbb's avatar

I’m not looking to wade into a fight but sometimes people join and kind of take over the site for a while without really getting a feel for the culture here. I understand it is very sad when a friend leaves.

chyna's avatar

@Janbb Agreed!

marinelife's avatar

@snowberry If she had not been asked to leave, then leaving on her part was premature.

snowberry's avatar

If I had received a message like that, I’d be outta here too. I think it’s sort of passive-aggressive. In a community like this, it’s an effective way to get rid of “trouble makers”.

marinelife's avatar

@snowberry Who told her that? Are you sure that it was official?

Bellatrix's avatar

It was official, however I think it was the final straw for her. I think she felt ostracised and attacked. She felt people didn’t like her and she would never be accepted. My reading of the person was that she was quite vulnerable and some of the criticism levelled at her grammar etc. was harsh and uncalled for. Unfortunately, this is a tight knit group and when one long standing member makes a comment, it is often followed by many more supporting them. There have been a number of threads like that recently. To someone who feels on the outside, it must feel very much like bullying. In fact, I will say it looks like bullying.

If we want new people to join fluther, we have to demonstrate some patience and give them time to get used to how it works. We could mentor them rather than attacking them. There is no need for public humiliation. There are mechanisms in place to alert the new member to problems with their posts. We are not just losing new members, long term members have left too.

snowberry's avatar

I have no idea. I was not privy to the communication. But she’s gone now.

snowberry's avatar

I’ll sign up to mentor someone! That sounds great!

bobbinhood's avatar

@Dog @Bellatrix You both indicate that we have a system in place to help new users learn the ropes, but I’m now wondering if we have any system to alert older users that they need to chill and lay off the newbies. The occasional mention of a mistake isn’t the end of the world, but when a bunch of people all start going on about the mistake and then arguing when the OP asks them to back off, I agree that it looks a lot like bullying. Doubtless it feels like bullying to the person on the receiving end. It seems to me that such gang mentality should be less acceptable than the grammar and spelling errors they police. What can we do to prevent such behavior? Is there any mechanism already in place to deal with that so we don’t continue to drive away new members?

@Blueroses This is a really great question. Thank you for bringing up this issue so we can discuss it. Hopefully we will see some positive change.

mazingerz88's avatar

The jellies I’ve noticed to have left were long time members so I assume they just got tired and probably would come back, who knows. If there were newbies who felt jilted by snappy criticism, chances are they would not have stayed long enough anyway. I think jellies who stay awhile are ones who are not easily pushed over even if they are on the WRONG side. Tough jellies! Yeah baby yeah! ( that’s the best Austin Powers imitation I could do. ) LOL.

JilltheTooth's avatar

I appreciate that it can be distressing when things get less than friendly around here, but can we also remember that things are not always as they seem on the surface? That there is often a back story to which only a few are privy?

Bellatrix's avatar

I think though @JilltheTooth, even if there is a back story, those things should be dealt with privately rather than the public lashings that have been taking place. We are supposed to be a community. The hostility that has been taking place is not making it very pleasant for new people or some people who have been around for a while. It isn’t necessary. It is ganging up.

JilltheTooth's avatar

My point, @Bellatrix , is that often one party makes a loud noise around and about and another party doesn’t even know it’s going on until damage has been done. Crying “Wolf!” is not always indicative of the presence of a wolf.

Bellatrix's avatar

I don’t think she was crying wolf. I have witnessed these attacks. Other people commenting here have noticed this behaviour too. It isn’t just about one person @JilltheTooth. In the last 24 hours, this is the third person I have come across who has mentioned being unhappy. Another young jelly has talked about leaving because of this type of behaviour.

snowberry's avatar

Unless you run with the masses here, you’d better have a very very thick skin, for sure, oh, and stubborn helps too!

mazingerz88's avatar

@JilltheTooth Agree. I don’t think jellies bully as a fluther at all. As an individual, one might be rude on any given day but other jellies respond to that and defend the offended party. I’ve seen that many times. I’ve never read any group bullying that was not actually a valid intellectual debate.

I would guess that a newbie would have a problem if he or she refuses to correct or revise a question. And if that is disenchanting to them or a complete turn off, that’s unfortunate.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

I think it’s been like this for a while, now.

silverfly's avatar

Just start the newbies off with like 2000 lurve and nobody will notice that they’re new. :)

KateTheGreat's avatar

I mean, some people are just coming in and being super rude.

But seriously? Don’t be mean to the newbies. There have been a few cool people joining Fluther lately and you just gotta give them a chance.

JilltheTooth's avatar

I have seen many, actually most noobs come in, join the party, get along very well, have a lovely time. Mostly the noobs I see being unhappy are the ones who don’t like or want to follow the guidelines and complain about them. I flag, others flag, mods try to help them out and they still make it public. We were all noobs once, and I’m not claiming I’ve never been sharp with somebody, but we’re not necessarily the parents, here, and I will respect someone’s right to bitch, if they will respect my right to not like what they’re bitching about.

Coloma's avatar

I know of whom this conversation has been sparked by, I too received a “goodbye” note and am sorry this person felt persecuted enough to leave.

I am not privy to any inside scoop, nor do I care to be.

Coloma's avatar

I leave it up to the mods to make their determinations, and, of course, there are plenty of flag happy controlling types that make a career out of policing. I think I have flagged maaaybe 3 or 4 postings in the year and a half I have been here. I’m not into self appointed elitism, and I welcome all newbies as equals.

I know when I first joined I had somebody tell me in no uncertain terms that as a newbie I had best bow down to the senior member and tow THEIR line. Really? Surely you jest? As IF their is some sort of hierarchy. Oh puhleese! Just made me laugh, aaah, the games people play. Pffft!

snowberry's avatar

@Coloma Awesome! I like your moxie! I had a similar experience in a question once. I was not intimidated either.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

The goodbye note that I got didn’t indicate a problem with any member of the collective, but that there was a warning for too many moderations in a short time. Just saying.

Coloma's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf

Same here, however, I think excess flagging might lend itself to attention being focused on, what otherwise, might have been overlooked. One can never know what goes on behind the scenes or if any favoritism is at work. I hate to think so, but, realistically, I am sure that, as is true in all organizations, some bias is a given at times.

To effectively manage anything one cannot allow personal feelings or relationship to sway judgement, but, it happens all the time.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Coloma I agree, at least somewhat. Do we really have a ton of jellies that constantly flag for grammar and spelling though? If anything I think that I (and most of the time I’ve seen the majority of other jellies) try to say welcome to new members, as well as teach them the guidelines if they’re having trouble. Though, the last time I did that it was perceived as an attack.. so I won’t be doing that again.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I only flag personal attacks and spam.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

If we’re being perfectly honest here, about hostility, what I’ve been seeing recently is more horribly insulting comments from long-time members, hating on Christians, republicans, and the like. Because let’s just call a spade a spade here- this is mostly a liberal site. BUT that’s my perspective and there could be threads that are blatantly hating on atheists and democrats. If so, I haven’t seen them, but whatever. That’s just my take on it.

I’ve also seen a massive amount of “drama” from a couple of long-time users who keep threatening to leave, just to get extra attention. No names, and I won’t reply to PM’s about it. That type of drama causes some people to get frustrated and either get snarky or take breaks.

@snowberry I, too, received a PM from her, telling me that it looked like her time was up here because she hadn’t quite gotten the hang of the rules yet and was told that if she “kept it up” she was going to be asked to leave. I’m sad. I really did like her.

Dog's avatar

As far as I can tell we rarely get more than 2 grammar flags even on the most heinous typos. Most go unflagged and the mod staff ends up stumbling across them.

Overall the flagging system is barely used- and mostly by a small handful of users.

Please note the new thread in meta.

Coloma's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf

Me too, I only flag personal attacks or extreme flame bait. If I can read and derive meaning from someones words I see no reason to flag for grammar. I understand the guidelines and respect them, but, again, I don’t do controlling, elitist bullshit.

Damn…someone put a pin in some of those ballooned out egos and deflate ‘em a bit. lol

jrpowell's avatar

I flag more than I comment!

Dog's avatar

^ And his flags are so funny! (remember you can be creative) :D

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

^^ Flagged for being a dog.

Dog's avatar

^^ Flagged for being a cat!

jrpowell's avatar

But on a serious note. I think there is a bit of confirmation bias going on here. I haven’t really seen any change but I barely ever wade into the cesspool that is Social.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@Dog Flagged for being sarcastic! Oh crap, I also… nevermind.

Dog's avatar

I would agree with that too @johnpowell. It is the main reason I usually never dwell into a real debate here even if I agree with the popular opinion. Sometimes those with a different view or belief are not respected.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

^^ Flagged for flagging me on that other thread.

gm_pansa1's avatar

It’s trolls. Trolls do not know how not to infect things that we love. Just ignore them. They’ll go away eventually.

linguaphile's avatar

Allow me to share a story… One day, I walked out of my classroom into the hallway. I saw 7 of the most popular, well-liked/well-feared girls in a semicircle around one of the least liked boys of our school- a very smart, cocky, skinny boy with slight CP. They had him trapped, his back to a locker, with 30 other kids watching, clearly uncomfortable. The girls’ expressions and body languages were angry and vicious—in the time it took me to get from my door to the group, I was able to catch 3 shockingly hurtful personal comments about his CP. When I got there, the guy bolted, and I asked the girls what the hell was going on. Apparently, this guy had an issue with making sexual comments to two of the girls. They had asked him to stop, but he didn’t, so this was their solution.

Perspective #1—The guy deserved it. He should’ve stopped making sexual comments when told to do so. He was wrong, period. The 5 girls were just sticking up for their ‘sisters.’
Perspective #2—Is ganging up on someone ever right? When does it switch from really dealing with an issue to becoming an all-out personal attack (i.e., about CP?) and a confirmation bias situation?
Perspective #3—There was more to the story (and there was).
Perspective #4—This could’ve been taken care of in the principal’s office, in private, but…
Perspective #5—...would it have been as effective?

The question is… which perspective is right?

Ok, my perspective in regards to flagging/grammar… I’m an English teacher and published writer, and my opinion is, grammar is only one part of good writing. There are other elements like organizing for impact, tone, presentation, word choice, an authentic voice, an awareness of one’s audience, accessibility, the list goes on! One could have a 10 page essay with perfect grammar, and none of the other elements, and it would be a terrible paper. It’s naive to think grammar’s the only thing that floats a writer’s boat.

But, dang… you know… geez, if someone can get to 5k lurve in 3 weeks, that’s impressive. I was jealous! It shows me that people DO like that jelly’s comments and thoughts. I, too, notice the grammar and spelling of some jellies, new and old, but enjoy their posts.

And I do occasionally flag for grammar and spelling, but only when the flow of comprehension is seriously disrupted by confusing errors. I wonder, now, do the mods explain what the errors are? Should they? If they don’t, then we do need mentors.

That being said, I am ALL, all, all, for making sure the standards on Fluther stay high. I love it here, adore the friends I’ve made here, have taken the good with the bad (I’ve gotten stung a couple times, too), AND love the fact that this is a group of people who have respect for quality in both thoughts and writing. I would not be here without that level of quality. I am not, in any way, suggesting that quality should be reduced- NO. Keep it high, but let’s all be a little less prickly.

I’m very careful about choosing my battles… and making sure Fluther doesn’t become an uncomfortable place is one battle into which I’m willing to go (written thus to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition).

[Edit, after reading some more comments that showed up while I was typing: I have to admit, I’m glad some trolls jellies TROLLS left!]

ucme's avatar

I’ve had 2 very strange episodes recently, I mean truly bizarre. As always though I rise above that shit & move on ever upwards. For it is written & this is the way of things :¬)

SavoirFaire's avatar

Regarding the warnings that people get about writing standards, I just wanted to note that we use form letters. These have all been crafted to be as friendly as possible. Here’s the meanest one we send:

“Just wanted to give you a friendly reminder that we value proper spelling, capitalization and punctuation. Please read our writing guidelines for more information. I’m afraid if the situation doesn’t improve, we may have to suspend or terminate your account. We’d hate to see that happen, so please give us your very best efforts.”

This is typically what someone gets on their third warning, and warnings are typically several weeks apart. I have trouble seeing this message as passive aggressive. The fact is, it’s as nice as it can be while still letting on that there could be serious consequences for failing to meet the standards. Otherwise, we’d get complaints that none of the warnings ever indicated that an account could be suspended or terminated over the issue.

And as I think a brief search of the site shows, we’re a bit lenient on the writing standards. Occasional mistakes are overlooked completely, some consistent errors are left alone as well, and only posts that are truly incomprehensible or negligently careless wind up being moderated. For a site that holds its members to high standards—and Fluther definitely has high standards—the rules are pretty lenient.

snowberry's avatar

A threat, or a promise, depends on who’s receiving and who’s sending. Works in real life too.

tinyfaery's avatar

Oh, brother. Why is everyone so concerned with people leaving? If they can’t hack it here, oh well. Fluther is what it is.

Dog's avatar

@tinyfaery I am not worried about people leaving who cannot hack it here. I just don’t want their first interaction to be a nasty judgement post.

jrpowell's avatar

Maybe a new option when you flag.

tinyfaery's avatar

@Dog My first interactions here were no better. I’m still here. Though many aren’t happy about it.

janbb's avatar

@tinyfaery And many are.

jrpowell's avatar

Really.. visit reddit.com

I have thick skin and I am afraid to comment there. But everyone needs to see this.

Dog's avatar

Ha ha ha ha @johnpowell !
Oh if we could only play like that… ;)

@tinyfaery Yeah- I get the point. I just hate if a question is posted for someone brand new and, instead of a helpful answer, a person points out grammar and spelling.
The problem here is, aside of being hostile, it RUINS the question. We mods send it to the user to correct and the responses are already marred if it returns fixed.

LuckyGuy's avatar

Aw shucks. I missed the whole thing -again. If it is who I think it is, I will miss her. She had depth that sometimes went unrecognized.

SpatzieLover's avatar

Every time I see a question like this one, I am reminded that similar conversations have been going on and on for years here in Fluther.

As far as I can tell, the amount of bluntness seems to be even with the amount of welcoming we do as a collective.

It’s a matter of focus. These things appear to run in cyclyes.

I’m certain the mods could clarify how many members we have, how long the average stays and how many users signed up and stayed for only a thousand or less lurve.

janbb's avatar

@SpatzieLover Yup -exactly.

woodcutter's avatar

Zensky seems mysteriously absent from this thread.

Coloma's avatar

and cycles within cycles within cycles within…..

gailcalled's avatar

There are codified studies of communities such as ours. It’s not a simple construct, as you might surmise. This article is both clearly organized and written and easy to understand.

Sociology of Fluther.

The mods have either read the paper or have a good intuitive understanding of the concepts.

Mariah's avatar

Well, damn. I feel like an ass, because I did call out our recently departed friend on a thread one time. Had nothing to do with grammar or spelling, though; that really doesn’t bother me – it was because she was derailing my threads. Hope I wasn’t out of line.

I’m wondering, what are we supposed to do if a newbie has a habit of derailing threads? The threads were in Social so I couldn’t very well flag them; I don’t think it was an explicit rule violation, but I was just getting tired of all these rambling responses lecturing me about how I treat people when that wasn’t what the question was about at all. So should I not say anything if this happens again and just post in General instead, or what? I don’t mind chattiness in my threads, but I do mind when I’m looking for something specific and the thread gets derailed before I even get any relevant answers.

janbb's avatar

@Mariah I think you were within your rights. If someone is derailing, misunderstanding and stomping all over your thread, it is fine to call them on it.

Coloma's avatar

I think everyone has one or two peeps they just can’t relate too. Best to just avoid them unless it is an impossibility or they need to be told to back off.

I can honestly say out of all of this great collective I have only had distasteful feelings for a couple. One is long gone, and almost drove me off at one point, the others, well..I just see it as pettiness. Hey…we don’t HAVE to like everybody, but we do have to show respect.

bob_'s avatar

Well, if you don’t like it… ~

Blueroses's avatar

I want to thank you all for responding and discussing this here.

My observation was not only about the recently departed new member, though that issue did bring the thought to fruition, but a general rudeness and mean spirited attitude present in many threads. Some things between old-timers and many directed at newcomers.

Come on, people! We were all new once, we all make mistakes and yes, it makes sense to get the feel of the joint before leaping into everything but some people don’t work that way. There are people who, at a party, hang back and mingle quietly until they get the vibe and then, there are people who leap right in and start telling jokes and talk to everyone.

I tend to be attracted to the latter type but those are the ones who seem to be bitch-slapped on Fluther for what seems to be “acting above their station”.

I respect people who have high standards but I can’t endorse outright rude behavior towards people who fail to meet those individual standards. My great-grandmother defined a Lady or Gentleman as “A person who can make anybody feel comfortable in his/her presence.”

I, for one, dislike having to explain to people with hurt feelings that things aren’t personal because, in their shoes, I’d surely take those things personally. It’s one thing to respond to a specific question with your own opinion about the topic. I don’t care for the tone of addressing certain topics on Fluther but agree that a thick skin or ability to debate are good qualities for Fluther as for life in general.

It is quite a different thing to ignore the question in favor of correcting a grammatical or spelling error. It reminds me of the old saw that goes:
“Excuse me, sir, where’s the library at?”
“Here, at Hah-vard, we don’t end sentences with prepositions.”
“Fine. Where’s the library at, asshole?”

Who’s happy with that exchange?

Who gets to feel good?

snowberry's avatar

OK, to be a bit more “gentle”, I’ll refrain from posting the question. Anyway, a few days ago someone asked if they should get married. We all jumped in there with answers, and then someone pointed out that in previous questions and on their profile this person said they were 13. When that happened, the whole question exploded with laughter, cat calls, and “Troll!” It was well deserved, in my opinion, but apparently the mods thought differently, because all those comments were deleted. I flagged the question, asking why we were expected to suffer such nonsense, but got no answer. So mods, what say you?

SavoirFaire's avatar

@snowberry Simple answer: the question was in General. The appropriate response is to flag, not to add more mess for us to clean up.

Coloma's avatar

Oh oh..just caught my “too” late typo, of using “too” instead of “to.”
Oh well..just shoot me. LOL

snowberry's avatar

The question is still there. Mess is still there. It has not been closed, and we’re dupes in the process.

Response moderated
KateTheGreat's avatar

—Then again, are people actually being mean or just blatantly honest? Some people around here get offended by the stupidest things, they over react, or they just make a clusterfuck out of a simple question. The best thing to do is just be helpful, not spiteful. Be kind and don’t whine. For older users, be an example, not a nuisance. Save the dramatics for Yahoo answers, not Fluther.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@snowberry That’s a different question. You asked why your off-topic responses were removed. The answer is because they were off-topic and the question is in General. Even if the asker is not sincere, however, the question could still be helpful to others. Thus the question may not be removed, and the helpful parts of the mess—if they are truly a mess—may remain.

snowberry's avatar

OK, I’ll say it another way. That person is admitedly 13 years old (they have since changed their profile by the way, but it’s still in another question they posted). Why is the question left standing as if it’s a legitimate question by someone who could actually benefit from the responses? Because you mods deleted all the pertinent comments, a new person responding to the question would not be familiar with its history. The result is they will be duped unless they do some digging, which is not something most people do before they answer a question. If you don’t close that quesiton you’re encouraging the problem. I don’t appreciate your “someone somewhere could be helped by the answers” stance. It stinks.

KateTheGreat's avatar

@snowberry I’m sure the mods have more to worry about than someone’s age. I mean, if it matters you can just check their page and not answer at all. Simple. If it’s not harmful and the person isn’t going “OH LULZ, I’M A TROLL” then It’s not even worth the time. Welcome to the Internet. People lie about things, people get duped every day. One bad apple doesn’t spoil the orchard.

syz's avatar

@snowberry I could be wrong, but my take on that particular question was not that he was claiming to be a sophomore in college (trolling), rather, a 13 year old boy with a girlfriend, considering if it would be a good idea to get married at that stage in his life. I assumed that he was a romantic, dreaming of when he would feasibly marry his beloved (I’d like to think that I was never that young).

And, ultimately, users should flag questions and quips rather than attack other users or post off-topic in General. That’s what the flags are for, after all.

snowberry's avatar

It’s not the way it was presented. It’s disingenuous to leave it up.

tranquilsea's avatar

@SavoirFaire what if someone is really giving their best effort? Is it right to warn and then kick out those of us who often cannot put together a grammatically correct sentence? Is the purpose of this group to hold up high standards of the English language? Or, are we here to answer questions?

Now I understand that it is hard to understand some people. I think it is abundantly appropriate and necessary to ask questions to get the poster to clarify. But I take the tact that unless the poster asks for help with grammar then it’s not really my place to correct them. If they are having a really hard time then I would offer to help them.

Coloma's avatar

@tranquilsea

I agree. Sometimes we need to look past the grammar and at the intention behind the question. I don’t want to read text speak, but, a few errors do not bother me in the least.

Jeruba's avatar

I have not seen evidence of what I would call a hostile atmosphere, or no more than usual, at any rate. In fact, at present I would say it’s at the low end of the normal range.

I too received a sad good-bye note today from a fairly new member whom I had befriended in PMs. It’s probably the same person that @snowberry mentioned. I’m sorry about her departure, but I had not seen her attacked. Perhaps she overreacted to something and misread a gentle warning from somewhere.

KateTheGreat's avatar

I just figured out who left. I liked her a lot. She was fun.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@snowberry I don’t see why the person who posted that question couldn’t benefit from the responses. If he’s really thinking about marriage at his age—and the interpretation given by @syz does not seem far-fetched to me—then the answers will help him. If, on the other hand, the person really is trolling, the comments could still help someone else. As @KateTheGreat said, people lie on the internet all the time. But if it isn’t harming anyone, it’s not the end of the world. I mean, I might not really be 916,466,329 seconds old for all you know.

Moreover, the “evidence” that the person who posted that question is a troll is not overwhelming. A lot of it is based on assumptions not borne out by the user’s posts (both those still visible and those that have been moderated) nor by the user’s original or current profile. While the community may be quick to accuse, the moderators need to be more careful before declaring someone a troll and taking action on that account.

The very first mistake I made as a moderator here was moving too quickly against a troll. I was proven correct within minutes of acting, but that is beside the point. The proof needs to precede the action, so what I did was a mistake. A hunch is not proof, and neither is a lynch mob. Nor, for that matter, is an apparent inconsistency regarding personal details.

We’ve had suspected trolls turn out to be perfectly good jellies, and we’ve had seemingly decent jellies slowly reveal themselves as trolls. This means that moderation often has to be slow and methodical, like detective work. Sure beats the alternative, though.

everephebe's avatar

I think all in all, we are pretty fair, for the most part.

Jude's avatar

I’m working on my Masters and I’m a busy lady, so, I’m not here all that much. Missing out on all of the drama.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@tranquilsea If someone is giving their best efforts, we tend to cut them slack. Those who speak English as a second language, for instance, do get some special considerations. As I said above, only posts that are truly incomprehensible or negligently careless wind up being moderated. Those giving their best efforts are not being negligent, thus they’d have to be truly incomprehensible (and thus helpful to no one) in order to be moderated.

The purpose of the group is to answer questions, that is for sure. But it is not merely to answer questions. We get better answers here because we have higher standards. Given the site’s mission, it really is appropriate to terminate those who consistently cannot or purposefully will not meet these standards. To do otherwise is to risk the site’s quality.

There is also a difference between the community publicly correcting someone’s grammar and the moderators privately asking someone to improve. So while it might not be your place to correct anyone who hasn’t asked for help, it is certainly our job to do so. We are as tactful as we can be, and we also serve as objects of contempt so that other members can be free of blame.

It’s all part of being a power-hungry-Nazi-socialist-dark-wizard-vampire-control-freak-with-no-life. ~

Response moderated
Coloma's avatar

@snowberry

Better brain damage than the few outright abusive mental cases. Holy shit…one guy….I’ll never forget that jerk..if I had known him in real life I’d have stabbed him in the eye with a fork.
If Coloma feels a violent urge you better believe she has been provoked beyond reason! lolol

SavoirFaire's avatar

@snowberry Anyone with such issues is encouraged to tell us. We can’t act on what we don’t know.

gailcalled's avatar

@snowberry:

The woman we are talking about (and I think we all agree who that is) mentioned nothing about brain damage on her profile. After my initial concerns re; her postings, I read all her information and hadn’t a clue. I was alarmed at what I perceived to be erratic behavior, contradictory messages, impulsive responses and clear mood swings.

If she had been more forthcoming, there might have been a happier outcome.

everephebe's avatar

Someone PM me who we all are talking about, I’m clueless.

Jeruba's avatar

I thought there were at least two people being alluded to above.

Dog's avatar

Gosh…. really guys.

Why are we alluding to others here?

If someone left due to the gentle warnings of the moderation staff then they clearly were not able to fit in.

If someone left by being bullied as a newbie then that perhaps is a different story.

I would like to remind you all that- as a mod- we all work together. The goal is NOT to chase out people but to help them become awesome, happy jellies!

We give many, many gentle warnings and try our best. If a person feels unwilling or unable to comply and does not work with us then we really cannot help any further.

jrpowell's avatar

I remember 2late2be. She was just learning English when she started here and a lot of what she typed was a mess. A few years later and she was pointing out my mistakes.

Symbeline's avatar

Maybe the end of Summer is pissing people off, old timers and newbies alike. Still, I noticed one new Jelly who left, who I personally thought was real great.
Ain’t got no answers, but in the future I’ll be trying to watch myself. I know I’ve sometimes contributed to bitchiness and ’‘cliques’’, even though I feel pretty disconnected sometimes.

People come people go, that’s how shit rolls, for many different reasons. But as in goes the nature of this question and what it may be based on, if that is a cause for people to ride into the sunset, then that sucks. I guess a lot of reasons suck though.
Fluther has indeed been kinda depressing in the last few weeks though. But it’s up to its community to change that, if it’s indeed the case. But how? And is it even our fault? As far as I know, the guidelines here are easy to respect, and the mods fair with their warnings. I never mistreated newbies, not that I know of, and that’s all I can think of for me to keep doing. (or not doing, rather) I denno.

I propose we go kidnap a buncha people and force them to join! :D

Mantralantis's avatar

Best Obvious Advice As Seen From The View of Someone New, Which Should Have Been Seen From A Select Few Of Those Here, That Are Not New, But Old, And Did I Forget To Mention That I Am New And May Be Susceptible To Yet Again Bad Brammar, I Mean Grammar, Sorry, And That I Seriously Need To Stop This Introductory Phrase Before This Colon Gets Too Swelled-Up, Even Though More Could Be Said Here That Has Probably Already Been Said…Above:

(Okay now I can breath. Whew!)

Keep to the specific questions themselves. Stay on subject (of all those qeustions, yes) If you have further personal complaints about anything, see your doctor (yes, this includes me – do you need a tissue?). And I do mean a moderator. Yes. In a PM. Which is probably a good reason why they’ve been there from the beginning, I’m assuming (yes, the PM’s).

Aside from all that, I wish not to leave on my behalf. All these questions and answers are gold wisdom, man!!

p.s. Thanks to all those wonderful crusaders whom champion my cause. Okay, okay – all the others too. Its a good thing I…aw, anyway. Be Good. 8^)

Now…

@Everyone – Please “Be Good”...as I should. Yep

augustlan's avatar

I’m sorry I’m so late to this discussion. I’ve been busy with my daughters and off-site for most of last night, and all of today.

I think there are several issues to address, here. First and foremost, I ask that everyone remember that there is a very real human being behind every avatar. Please don’t hurt anyone’s feelings unnecessarily. In addition to refraining from personal attacks, I’d really appreciate it if everyone would stop publicly calling people out on their writing skills. If there’s an issue, flag it, flag it, flag it. The mods are best equipped to handle these situations, and we will handle it. I promise.

Secondly, please know that there is almost always more going on behind the scenes than most are aware of. While naming no names, let me give you a recent example. One of our departed members had been heckled on their writing skills, and was feeling rather picked on because of it. However, what actually prompted the member’s departure was the official warning PM we sent. It was worded very nicely, but did make clear that the member was still repeatedly breaking our guidelines and that there would be a negative consequence if it continued.

Now, the behind the scenes part: The warning was about three separate types of guideline infractions. Typos were a part of the problem, yes, but not the most important part. Prior to the official warning, we had already sent several other very nice PMs pointing to our guidelines and asking the member to curb the behaviors in question. The behaviors continued, unabated, so a warning was issued. Then, while I was off-site, the member publicly PMed me (and several others, I gather) and essentially said “Since no one likes me here, I’m quitting rather than waiting to get suspended or banned.” For our part, liking or disliking had no bearing on the matter at hand. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for this member, but I don’t think any one group or person was responsible for the situation. It was kind of like a perfect storm.

TL;DR: Be nice! And remember that you usually don’t know the whole story.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Fluthering.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

The 5,000lb gorilla in the room. So many want to believe it is just whiney weak-willed Jellies who complain when they get rebuked bucking the system. It is never plausible that some of the ”old hats” are unwittingly Boorish. Sometimes it is over dumb crap that is really not that major of an issue like typos or grammar. We are still humans and not machines. If we were robots on an assembly we would be expected to be perfect hundreds, or 10s of thousands of times doing the same thing. I have had people PM me about how I can stand up to people trying to bend me over and give it to me dry. I could be nasty and snide back; many groups I know just what button to push to make them go from zero to spitting mad in 4.8 nanoseconds. Aside from the mods stopping me, I don’t need to get down in the gutter like that. I only assume they had no ammo that is why they got so pissed. There have been people who felt bullied and many are gone. No one notice they are gone because they never tried to get to know them when they were here. When they were here people just wanted to rebuke them tag team fashion because what they said or how they said it din not play well to the masses. It didn’t just start getting hostile, it has been that way for quite some while now.

Hibernate's avatar

@Mantralantis but we are good. Didn’t the hug helped? One more round then.

Mantralantis's avatar

Moderators, senseless compulsion can be fun, so strike this from my record, please——> @Hibernate…it’s ‘help’, not ‘helped’ in that sentence. For example, or correction to be precise, “Didn’t the hug help?”

Ding. I rest my case. Please don’t ban me.

Mantralantis's avatar

@augustlan – Okay, I admit. I wasn’t wrong. I mean wrong. Darn! Okay, Okay. Your “Ahem” is duly noted. Thank you. Sincerely 8^)

janbb's avatar

I get it, I get it but I just need to say that part of why I am on the internet is to exercise my wit and my perceptions. I’.m not here for Romper Room. If we aren’t going to have fun and tease each other a bit, I’m not going to be here much. I try not to cross the lines into cruelty but if people are (in my opinion) being foolish, I may point it out. And I can take it back as well. Of course that does not includ newbies but there are people who become regulars very quickly – and if you dish it, you’r going to get it. I know I’m not perfect. (Flaps flippers and waddles away off soapbox.) XOXO

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

All I know is that the more I read this thread, the more hostile I feel.. and I’m not even sure why. So, I’ll take that as my official cue to stop following.

Mantralantis's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf – I think I know what you mean. And I think I’m definitely feeling some kind shift in my vibe. Hey, anuf, one of my practices of stress therapy is to write a quick three-word story that also dubs as a cool title.

Heck, your already ahead in that department, Enuf. Do you mind if I borrow from you? I mean, come on, you can’t tell me Enough Is Enough isn’t a great story and and title. Yep.

Hibernate's avatar

@Mantralantis that was made on purpose. I was trying to untension the atmosphere. You are “bad”.

Mantralantis's avatar

@Hibernate – Regardless, your absolutely right, Hibe!! I sincerely apologize for being bad on that last response I gave you. However, I also admit it was fun, because you inspired me. But very bad, yes. Now with this post, I do so solemnly pledge, to conclude myself from attacking the imperial allegiance, for which it stands…for at least the next ten empirical onslaughts.

Yep. The Beatles said it best – ‘we’ll come together’. Who just were they kidding?

dappled_leaves's avatar

Could someone let me know who left? I am curious to know if she was in my “cohort”, so to speak.

Response moderated
Kitagawa32's avatar

If the interest is truly to rid the site of “problems” I suggest that you stop allowing other users to use the guidelines as well as the flags as a way for the “lunatics to run the asylum” so to speak. If grammar and spelling is so important, install a spell checker. I believe that some of you simply enjoy the drama more than you do the interaction on any sort of a decent level. Many of you here should be ashamed of yourselves.

gailcalled's avatar

For the record, and this is my last word, no one dragooned me into responding to your mother. I had concerns about her from the beginning that had nothing to do with grammar, spelling or punctuation.

If she had issues, she should have informed the mods. This is a Q &
A site only.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
gailcalled's avatar

Is “Put the kettle on, I’on on my way” slanderous, libelous, derisive, or harmful in any way?

Kitagawa32's avatar

No but it shows your own intentions that of course you are not saying or admitting to as you use your friendships and their loyalty to back your own mean girl situation against someone who had done nothing to you.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Kitagawa32's avatar

All I have to say is that you really should remove the “brain damage” accusations or you will be sued for defamation because it is not the truth and you know that.

KateTheGreat's avatar

For the love of all that is good…kill me.

Seriously, everyone STOP. Stop where you are. BREATHE. This shit is ridiculous.

bkcunningham's avatar

Pass the popcorn, please. This is getting interesting.

Dog's avatar

[Mod Says:] Keep The Flame Bait Down Please. (flame bait removed)

Hi @Kitagawa,

As a mod I can assure you that we do not act on anything except our guidelines. Even if anther member, or multiple members did not like a user it does not influence our enforcement of the guidelines. As I said, it is our intent to keep users, not lose them.

Perhaps it might help you to know that even the mods are not above rules and yours truly was suspended once for 2 weeks. It is NOT personal with moderation.

Your mom has every right to come back and again. Maybe she will follow the guidelines and stay- as I have.

everephebe's avatar

Let’s not get nasty and talk about legal action over a question and answer site, come on now. Hostility is a two way street.

Kitagawa32's avatar

Is “Put the kettle on, I’on on my way” slanderous, libelous, derisive, or harmful in any way?

@gailcalled To someone of a third party no, but in this situation I’m pretty sure there was at least a minimal amount of derision there. Oh, by the way you might want to check a bit of your typing next you decide to retort in such a manner (See above). I’ve got every right to defend my mother in this situation because look at the amount of flagging that everyone else has done to her, compared to the fact that she never used the flag option on another user once. Check the stats and you’ll see who the troublemakers are.

Mariah's avatar

The mentions of brain damage in this thread were not malicious in any way… we have, past and present, had several well-loved members here who have brain damage, and sometimes it is more difficult for them to articulate their thoughts, so they are given some leniency in the rules. @snowberry apparently had your mom confused with somebody else, and thought she was one of those members and therefore deserved some leniency. That is all that was meant by those posts…

Dog's avatar

@Kitagawa32 I am looking for the quip regarding brain damage as I intend to remove it. (Not out of fear of liable but because it IS against our guidelines to attack.)

Please be patient- it is a long thread.

Kitagawa32's avatar

Mariah you have no credibility here because you too brought up something that was supposedly squashed between my mother and yourself and you failed to mention that in your post that merely added fuel to the fire rather than tell the truth and let anyone know how she was good to you and how the situation was indeed discussed and handeled privately.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog Funny how things get left when and where it is convienient to a predisposed point of contention and moderated completely as well as flagged when it is also convienient.

JilltheTooth's avatar

@Kitagawa32 : I flagged a question of your mother’s that was a naming names Q. You cannot possibly know who flags stuff, only the mods and @augustlan know. You are waaaaay out of line making these assumptions. Being on the same threads as someone is not following them.

everephebe's avatar

Geeeeeeeeee-sauce. [Facepalm]

JilltheTooth's avatar

And by the way, @Kitagawa32 , how is the constant use of my name in such a slanderous way not “malice and Libel”.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@JilltheTooth And wouldn’t it have been easier being that she was a new user to just let her know that as opposed to going on a random flagging session for your own very obvious agenda. Like I said; the flagging option allows the “lunatics to run the asylum.” You are using friendships and loyalty to back a personal agenda and if no one has issue with you I am certain you have done it before and you will do it again. You are the problem in its entirety.

linguaphile's avatar

@Kitagawa32 Everyone? There has been a lot, lot of support for your mom here and people have openly defended your mom. By saying it’s all of us, as a whole, you could lose the support you already have. I know you’re angry and I think it’s admirable you’re defending your mom, but please try not to say ‘everyone.’

Kitagawa32's avatar

@linguaphile Saying she has “Brain Damage” publically and those people involved omitting the important bits and even adding things that are not the truth is people looking out for her?

Dog's avatar

@Kitagawa32 I found the comment and it was not directed at anyone that I can tell. This is why is remains. Had a user said ” Username has brain damage” It would be gone as a personal attack.

Am I missing something?

everephebe's avatar

@Kitagawa32 Don’t you see that you are articulately making a case against yourself and your mother? Calm down. We can all talk without fighting here, or trading insults. Fluther is generally pretty friendly, I mean comparatively for the “internets”. :D

Kitagawa32's avatar

Some people did indeed look out for her, and I am grateful to them and they know that but the numbers compared to those who should have as opposed to the few who did is the problem. It is all too easy to pick on someone when they are not around to defend themselves.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@everephebe The only insults are the truth as opposed to the insults that were intentional lies to defame someone else’s character in her absence.

JilltheTooth's avatar

@Dog : Would you, as a mod, kindly explain to this confused user how the flagging system works? @Kitagawa32 seems to be under the impression that s/he knows who flagged whom.

Kitagawa32's avatar

To make claims that she was “weak” and “ran off” were rediculous. My mother is a pure fighter and always defends herself. The point however here was moot because of all the unseen and unheard elements that went on behind everyone else’s back. Whenever she attempted to try to defend herself Jill had her moderated. She was trolling on purpose and that is a fact.

@JilltheTooth I am male, and she is standing right here watching. she is not a liar and has no need to do that.

Kitagawa32's avatar

Crying wolf eh? Interesting Jill.

Kitagawa32's avatar

I am a teenager and I know better than to behave the way you do and I wasn’t raised to deal with people the way that you have and somewhere inside you, you know this to be the truth. Whatever level of honesty sit’s within you is obviously “damaged.” I’m sure you had a good laugh but the truth be told you are the only factor in this as well as those you called to your agenda to help you, and you know it.

All anyone has to do is look at who flagged whom and how many times. My mother never flagged anyone of you. Not one time, she doesn’t behave, concern herself with, or care to hurt other people based on petty nonsence, grammar issues, and garbage.

Dog's avatar

Please link to the quips or questions you are discussing so I can look at the mod trail. (All moderation actions and all flags are sent to the entire moderation staff as well as mod PM’s etc.)

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog She asked me to tell you that all of this was indeed pointed out to Augustlan and how it did no good. For that reason, she felt that it would be pointless to stay, and continue to try and be here amicably because eventually it would have ended up as being removed from the site no matter what she did or did not do when everything she did was being flagged.

everephebe's avatar

Less drama please.
This isn’t highschool.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@everephebe For me it is. I am in high school. This place has more unnecessary drama than any high school I have even been in.

chyna's avatar

This is just a question and answer site. There is no need for all of this. I’m sorry your mother feels she was run off, but she needs to move on or just come back.

Dog's avatar

@Kitagawa32 It does not matter if we get 100 flags on a user. We will not act on anything except violations of the guidelines.

@GabrielsLamb- We really do take seriously posting off-topic responses in the General section. And several users who have even commented in this thread have been warned just as you and some were and even suspended for two weeks. They are here now because they remember to check where they are before responding.

Brian1946's avatar

I think hostilities are usually held in some overhead clouds, but during football season, the release of extra testosterone into the atmosphere makes the clouds heavy enough to descend to ground level.

When this air is inhaled, hostilities rise.

This is according to famed meteorologist, Dr. Terry Bradshaw!

;-)

Kitagawa32's avatar

She doesn’t want to come back. Do you blame her? Knowing who is who now and what is what. If all of the concerns that were expressed are genuine concerns, you know who the issues surround now, and the “brain damage” posts as well as the elaborations should be removed. That was completely uncalled for and an unnecessary, assumptive attack on someones character who did nothing to deserve it. That is all she wanted, and for the good people who defended her honor to be told the truth and thanked for doing so.

chyna's avatar

@Kitagawa32 Ok, that has been done. Enough is enough.

Kitagawa32's avatar

I have said my peace… Thank you all for listening and for retracting the negative slanderous lies. I appreciate that. My mother is no coward, she just knows when something is not worth fighting for. She attempted to leave peacefully, without having to out anyone and with no drama and this thread created that drama that merited her right to defend herself after the fact. If no drama is what was truly desired, then this shouldn’t have happened the way it did.

Dog's avatar

@GabrielsLamb- Allow me to clarify why as I think it will help you understand. The “General” section is reserved as a straight forward- non social question and answer area.

The “Social” area was created because too many people seeking serious answers for questions were having their threads derailed by social chit chat.

So we established boundaries so that the asking party had control over the type of response they wanted. It can be hard to get used to, but the problem with posting a non-helpful response is that it often leads the topic astray entirely.

everephebe's avatar

“She doesn’t want to come back.” Great, then leave already. Why the extra conflict? It’s completely unnecessary. You are just diging the hole deeper @Kitagawa32. I have nothing against you or you mother. Please just go in peace if you do not wish to return. If you do wish to return then do. :D It’s all up to you. You’ll both be welcomed back if you decide to return.

KateTheGreat's avatar

<chews on a happy brownie> When is this question going to turn into a recipe exchange? I’m hungry.

everephebe's avatar

Word.^
Have some chicken. Or a picnic if you prefer, yes I baked that bread.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog When you log on to this site, if the “general section” is the issue then shouldn’t the site be changed to where the “social” tab pop’s up automatically as the initial posting spot? Wouldn’t that make more sence when sometimes people jsut don’t look and notice where the question is being read?

Sometimes those things do get over looked when and if someone is harmlessly not paying attention. The more strict guidelines should be the one’s that are out of the way no? It would seriously improve the instance of people unknowingly posting social type responses in the general section unknowingly. I (this is me now) can assure you it was never once done with intent to do so, it was simply an oversight.

linguaphile's avatar

I will defend Blueroses and her question here—she asked the question to try to HELP solve matters. I’m sad that you don’t see how many jellies were in your mom’s favor and worked together to support her on this thread and several others. They did step up in her favor.

Blueroses, along with many other jellies, wanted to figure out a way to make sure things got better for new jellies and that no other newbie would feel this way again. I doubt that many jellies, including myself, would get the same outpouring of support that your mom got… I’m sorry you don’t see it that way.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@KateTheGreat (this is GL now) I have a great recipe for pan blondies with chocolate, white chocolate & butterscotch bits that is to die for!

Kitagawa32's avatar

@linguaphile THis isn’t about blueroses, it has nothing to do with her posing the question istelf, this is about what it turned into and I think you must know that?

Dog's avatar

@Kitagawa32 That was actually discussed but the owners built Fluther as a Question and Answer site first and foremost. Social was created as a kindness to Flutherites who liked to be social. So they keep the solid questions on the front page.

One thing that helps me determine where I am when posting is that, above the response text box there is a reminder that says something like “This is the General Section- all responses should be on-topic and helpful”
Granted it can be overlooked, but it is a great tool for checking oneself before responding.

Brian1946's avatar

I wonder what direction this thread would take if Coloma made the brownies. ;-)

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog I’m just saying. If “solutions to problems” is really what is desired, those are the obvious one’s. It is very easy to not pay attention and believe you are in social when you think it is general and if general is what creates the drama it should be moved to a secondary position so that people have to intentionally hit it. I would create much less drama I think?

Dog's avatar

@Kitagawa32 ^ Check my response above. Go over to general and open a question. Then look about the box. :)

Kitagawa32's avatar

And also, users shouldn’t be able to flag other users. That is like giving children keys to a car aimed directly at the house of the person they do not like.

chyna's avatar

Seriously @Kitagawa32 if you don’t like the rules, then leave.

I’ve been nice, now you’ve pushed it.

Dog's avatar

We need the flagging system. But what you seem to think is that a flag has power. It doesn’t. It merely alerts the mods that there may be an issue. Many many many flags are NOT acted upon at all because it is determined that no infractions have occurred.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog I realize that, but usually it was after the fact, unfortunately you don’t always realize until you have been flagged and if those are the things that are going to cause moderation and you don’t realize it until you are moderated, it causes unnecessary problems and the flagging system as it is, allows for other users to troll by this premise. It’s really not right.

everephebe's avatar

Flags aren’t the end of the world, they don’t do anything unless a mod agrees that something flagged does not meet the guidelines. I’ve been PMed by Auggie for being naughty. It’s no big deal. Just behave.

Dog's avatar

@Kitagawa32 You can always flag yourself. :) Many do when they realize they posted in the wrong section.

Kitagawa32's avatar

I’m just saying, if you wanted to honestly know where the problems are, there you go. Problem, if there is a genuine want and will to correct them, there it is… It’s not the users, it is the system and the unscrupulous users abusing it at their leisure because it is set up as an honor system and some people haven’t much to speak of. That is a problem!

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog I find flagging useless. I have not ever once flagged another member on here for any reason! I would have been a hypocrite to have used a system myself that I felt was at fault for many of the problems people observe here (hence the question) in lieu of hurt feelings and hostility… I didn’t use it because I have no need to hurt or correct anyone. People are people and we all make mistakes. If I had anything to say I simply PM’d the moderators.

Dog's avatar

We are all volunteers on the mod staff. We are all busy and it can be an exhausting job. (We ban about 20–100 spammers per day.) The flags are vital because they help us find what we may have missed.

Flags are not powerful. They are just a note for a mod to please take a look. We could not operate without flags.

everephebe's avatar

Even youtube has flagging!

Kitagawa32's avatar

@everephebe Now tell me if Youtube isn’t one of the most intentionally TROLLED sites on the Internet because of flagging? How many people do you know who have had their account removed on Youtube because of trolling?

everephebe's avatar

We get trolls and spammers at Fluther, dear boy lady. :D

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog I understand completely and respectfully, I think you know that. My point is that if everyone who was looking for viable solutions to these issues, there they are. It isn’t fair to always blame the user when the system itself has issues. The blame should be shared and therefore people shouldn’t have that much power if they are going to be abusive with it. THis is a community and one that quite honestly I loved very much. But there will always be an element in place that intentionally abuses it for their own gain and agenda. That is a fact of society as a whole.

It is up to the people who run the ship to understand that as well. Human error is… well, human. How can we be faulted for that? All I am trying to say is that it should be assumed and understood that when a system is in place, it should be well though out to the effect that people are going to attempt to abuse it. To over look that is silly.

The solutions merit honesty and accountability on behalf of the users themselves.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@everephebe It’s me now… Sorry, you can tell by the typos. LOL My son is brilliant and doesn’t need a typing coach. I however do.

Kitagawa32's avatar

That’s all… I wanted to thank you for allowing me to speak my peace which I am entitled to do and thank you as well for removing the posts that alluded to the fact that I have “Brain Damage” I can assure you, I do not. Thank you Dog I appreciate you listening and at least considering all I have said here. I appreciate all of you who are good and kind and decent very much. and I will miss this place terribly! Peace and light and love to you all jellies!

Kitagawa32's avatar

Good night Gracie!

Dog's avatar

@Kitagawa32 I just want to let you know that we do not like naming names so am now hiding your post that names other users. Glad you now understand about posting.

Kitagawa32's avatar

@Dog I understand completely! You’re a good egg Miss doggy! Thanks again for listening!

Kitagawa32's avatar

*And my son is a good egg too for defending his momma! I am off to buy him something wonderful!

everephebe's avatar

Ok here is the point of flagging other than spam and such. If I were to say something incredibly mean to someone you could let a mod know before it got really nasty. Mods help us to be more friendly with each other, and flagging helps the mods out. Flagging is a respectful thing, not a gotcha thing. It helps keep jellies from getting out of hand with each other. This is a community.

Dog's avatar

@ GL and Son: While I do not think you will entirely believe me, there is no conspiracy that I could find regarding any other users. Additionally, I have known Augustlan for many years. She is fair and has had to even warn and ban long time members who do not follow the rules. She has been devastated when she had to ban a friend. What we do is never personal. It cannot be. All our mod actions are visible to all the mods, staff and owners.

bkcunningham's avatar

I hope you decide to reactivate your account and give Fluther another try. Heck, get your son to keep his account and become an active participant of the forum. Peace.

Response moderated
KateTheGreat's avatar

@everephebe You totally have to make me lunch one day. That looked FABULOUS.

SpatzieLover's avatar

Seriously?!

Soap Opera

Mantralantis's avatar

from @Dog

”...Many many many flags are NOT acted upon at all because it is determined that no infractions have occurred.”

I had a feeling that false ‘supressor’ never meant a hill of beans in this crazy questionable town of a site anyway.

But its not without its entertainment. Yep.

And, honestly I have never flagged a soul. The flagging is out in the open right here for all to see, obviously.

everephebe's avatar

@KateTheGreat I’ll take you up on that sometime.

KateTheGreat's avatar

@everephebe Goodie. :) Hey, do you need a sugar mama?

everephebe's avatar

Always.^

Dog's avatar

@Mantralantis Ugh. See how my poor punctuation crops up? I would mod myself except the quip is too important to the discussion. Instead I will give myself a time out and write 100 standards.

Mantralantis's avatar

I’m the masked man that’s giving out all of those tissues at the center of the room.

Mantralantis's avatar

@Dog – That’s okay, Dog. Just bark three times and I’ll call an English doctor as soon as possible. Erbs!

FutureMemory's avatar

Knocking back the brew’s already, eh?

tinyfaery's avatar

Die thread. DIE!

Ela's avatar

“People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out,
but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from
within.”
~Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

I believe, threads such as this as well as the current one here, reveal thatall too well and can bring forth a person’s true colors. Some people hide behind the rules and stab others without a name thinking it is okay… some people coat their venomous words with honey and niceness is merely a mask of what poison lies within. As my son once said, “You can’t hide what’s inside.” Funny how wise and accuratly children see things…

I see your light GL. Count me in with those who hope you will return : )

syz's avatar

Oh, good grief. I have to admit that I stopped reading some time ago. We’ve passed drama and headed into melodrama territory, and I for one am not a fan of either.

Those who are “choosing sides”, you seriously have no idea how many polite, helpful requests occur behind the scenes, how many multiple edit opportunities are given (along with helpful suggestions), and just how long it takes to finally reach the stage of politely informing a user that their behavior doesn’t change, it may negatively affect their membership. For every user (well, except for outright trolls and spammers).

Follow the rules, or don’t. It’s everyone’s choice. If you (a general, generic “you”) choose not to follow the rules, please don’t drag half the site into a discussion of your victimization when you’re asked to leave. It’s tiresome.

Jeruba's avatar

One thing I can’t help observing in this thread, starting with the question itself, is the tendency of some members to speak of or address other members as if they were operating as a group.

Do some of us really think of ourselves as “all alone” and all the others as somehow “together”? This is nonsense.

Except for a few family duos among our number, I think it’s safe to say that we are here as individuals and participate as individuals. Flinging accusations toward the group as a group is pointless. I can’t be responsible for anyone’s behavior except my own.

nikipedia's avatar

If you can’t follow the rules, good riddance.

Ela's avatar

@syz @nikipedia That’s very welcoming, thank you.

nikipedia's avatar

@EnchantingEla, there are plenty of other social websites that will let you say and do whatever you want. If people can’t follow the totally reasonable, thoughtfully designed, and gently enforced guidelines here, they can go use another website.

Ela's avatar

@nikipedia True, there are plenty of other social websites, but we are not talking about them. As the original question stated, “Long time users are dropping out or staying away. New users are feeling persecuted and unwelcomed. Every day, I’m dismayed to see people I respect hurling personal attacks in the threads.”

I don’t think this is about any single person or persons. It is about the community as a whole and the general atmosphere/attitude being adopted and generated by some members of this particular social website.

janbb's avatar

Fuck this shit already!

bob_'s avatar

I agree with @nikipedia. Personal attacks are one thing, but feeling unwelcomed because of the rules? This ESL speaker says learn to write properly.

jrpowell's avatar

Edit: Fuck it, not worth doing this again.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@EnchantingEla I recall welcoming you when you entered Fluther. What is the issue?

FutureMemory's avatar

I predict thread shutdown in less than 30 minutes.

rebbel's avatar

Can we get a small excerpt of what you’re going to reply, @snowberry?
I am pretty curious seeing you are crafting for a long time already!
Edit: let me add a ~
Edit2: You may be right, @SpatzieLover

SpatzieLover's avatar

@rebbel Possibly she left the room with the computer on

chyna's avatar

@FutureMemory I am so hoping you are correct.

gailcalled's avatar

Here is a summation of the definition of this collective by @thorninmud that works for me; I started to highlight and then realized I’ve have to highlight the entire text

“When a collection of individuals gets together and interacts over time, a “culture” begins to form.*That just means that the collective settles into a certain pattern of behaviors that represents, more or less, an average of the individual behaviors, or at least those of the more influential individuals. It’s an often informal consensus about the rules governing interactions—what’s welcome and what rankles. This is what we often refer to as the “feel” of the place.

It’s why YouTube “feels” so different from Fluther, for example. That culture may or may not become formalized in actual explicit rules that reflect the informal consensus. The formal rules are easily publicized and enforced, but the informal rules can be just as real, and people don’t know they’re there until they’ve tripped up.

Newcomers will tend to pick up on the prevailing feel of the culture. If they have a decent degree of social intelligence and a desire to be accepted, they will modify their individual behaviors to match the overall tone of the place. This is often a sub-conscious thing. As social animals, most of us have a built-in feel for how this works. But some are better at it than others.

Ela's avatar

@SpatzieLover I know you did, very nicely, as well as a lot of other members : ) Everyone has always been very nice to me. I’m just saying that telling a new person if they don’t like it, too f-in bad, does not come across as very welcoming.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@EnchantingEla Not all new users are as kind as you are and a few are not what they appear to be. Some people come back after either being kicked out, or leaving in a huff. These people “pretend” to be newbs. Sometimes they let a few people know they aren’t newbs and sometimes they don’t.

There are rules here. Why does a newb join, and instantly buck the rules?

FutureMemory's avatar

@SpatzieLover They don’t realize how seriously we take this place, is my guess. I think most people view the internet as one big Youtube, more or less.

everephebe's avatar

Oh my… The end is in sight.
Finally.

augustlan's avatar

I am going to archive this thread, as nothing more of any good is going to come of it. Just to reiterate: There was no conspiracy. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for this member, but no one person or group is responsible for that. The end.

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