What are your thoughts on the mass shooting in gay nightclub Orlando Pulse?

What’s the point in saying anything? It’s horrible and sad and I’m sorry for those who have been shot. But will this mass shooting change anything in the U.S.? No.

It has now been confirmed by Orlamdo police that many have lost their lives.

What are my thoughts? What would expect anyone’s thoughts to be? Horror, despair, a huge aching heart for the families, and what @Earthbound_Misfit said.

Well said @Earthbound_Misfit and @canidmajor. But what do you suppose is the solution to prevent such attacks?

@NerdyKeith
Proper gun regulation and enforcement.
In any other western country, when there is a mass shooting, it is extremely rare and the whole country is in shock.
In the colonies, it is “oh look, another one”. Like bombings in the middle east.
Everytime this happens, know that you chose for it to happen, because of your deliberate inaction.

@ragingloli i agree completely. I also think an improved mentle healthcare system is in order.

As @ragingloli has said gun control and yes, @NerdyKeith, access to quality healthcare for those who need it. Mental or otherwise.

Sadly, I do not see either of those things happening in the U.S. If little children can be the targets of a mass shooting and nothing changes, I really can’t imagine what it will take.

Yeah. We know. Unfortunately, with a population count that’s about 4 times the number of the most populous of your three countries, the sheer mass makes it unwieldy. Some of us do what we can, it’s not enough, we know it, but I personally doubt that people in much less populous countries can truly understand the scope of extreme geographic, cultural, and population diversity that we deal with.
So far on this thread only @Earthbound_Misfit, in Australia, can have a clue about geographic and cultural diversity, but not the population.

20 dead, 42 wounded.

I live a 1.5 hour drive away from that nightclub, and heard about it first from a UK news site. The Orlando Sentinel waited until they could use the clickbait word “Terrorism” in the crawler before they posted an article. Apparently the dead shooter is brown enough that they can assume he’s an Islamic terrorist until they’re otherwise informed.

Also, @canidmajor – you clearly haven’t read the Twitter reaction of the Jesus brigade.

It’s about time the police called this terrorism – that’s what it was.

My guess is that this is some US right wing group of Trump supporters with guns. Details should be interesting.

There has also been accusations that this could be an ISIS attack. But I have my doubts about that. I just don’t see ISIS viewing Orlando Florida as a target.

They’re calling it domestic terrorism, and saying the shooter “may have had strong Islamic beliefs”

What do I think? I think it’s terrible.

50 dead, 53 in hospital.

I want to go donate blood but I’m blacklisted for a very stupid reason. It makes me SO FUCKING MAD. I’m O+. Goddammit.

I have not heard that this was a gay nightclub and I’ve been watching all morning.
How do you know it is a gay nightclub?

@chyna: It’s on the news all over, gay nightclub.

@chyna: Also, if you google it, it’s coming up as “gay club.”

Because it is a gay nightclub.

That’s an empirical fact. I have friends who are regulars there.

It’s horrible and very sad,the people that do this are total cowards no matter what reason they claim.

The rolling updates on The Guardian are helpful
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jun/12/florida-nightclub-shooting-terrorism-suspect-updates

Sad I have to look for a news outlet in the UK to give unembellished facts and details on something happening a few miles down the road.

I saw live updates on CBS TV, this morning around 10:30 and continually.

Looking at the rate at which these shootings are happening and no. of people being killed I think no. of us citizens killed by own people will be more than those killed by its enemies. I don’t have stats but just speculating.

@NerdyKeith My thoughts are that this kind of senseless and horrific event is bound to be repeated over and over because of politically correct rules. Mainstream media will not articulate the facts. Our president is thus far unable to articulate the facts. Meanwhile, our people will die needlessly again and again. (track record is what it is)

CNN ” The gunman was Omar Mateen of Ft. Pierce, Florida, a law enforcement source told CNN.” Worst mass shooting in US history !
From His Facebook : A Proud Muslim and a proud Pakistani
Lives in Orlando, Florida
From Islamabad, Pakistan

From Islamabad, Pakistan

His ex-wife says he was born in New York, and his parents are from Afghanistan.

She said he was violent and her parents took her away for safety. Also she said he was not very religious.

The Independent – Ex-wife of Orlando gay nightclub shooter says ‘he beat me’

Just awful. These things happen way too often.

In any of the mainstream media reports do they tell you he’s sworn allegiance to the Islamist state?

Fox News will have every detail anyone would wish to know but that does not mean that people will believe them. Many people believe what they’re comfortable with.

Fox News will have every detail anyone would wish to know

It’s a little early to believe everything you read.

@Call_Me_Jay exactly. Many people won’t buy what Fox has to say. In fact, they won’t believe what is said online either.

Looks like the race is on to beat the record

READ: ‘ISIS’ Tweets Anti-Gay Messages After Orlando Shooting
Islamic State sympathizers on Twitter have begun to tweet anti-LGBT messages with the hashtag #Pulse following the shooting at the…
HEAVY.COM|BY SAM PRINCE

It’s tragic. t’s a hate crime. It’s terrorism. It’s one more statistic in a country that refuses to recognize that it has a gun problem. It’s one more reason that I would never live in the US.

Many people won’t buy what Fox has to say

FOX called it a “terrorist” when Michelle Obama gave Obama a fist bump.

Totally legit news source.

@dappled_leaves Congratulations on using a phrase I’ve never heard: “a country that refuses to recognize that it has a gun problem. I honestly believed that all countries had guns. Our guns are a problem but other countries’ guns are not a problem. It’s almost like you’re putting a personality defect on a weapon.

@Aster “Our guns are a problem but other countries’ guns are not a problem. It’s almost like you’re putting a personality defect on a weapon.”

That’s right. I don’t know what part of that is confusing for you.

@dappled_leaves Yes; I’m very confused. But your personification of guns makes a lot of sense.

@dappled_leaves All right, I’ll be more precise for you. I’m putting a personality defect on the glorification of a weapon. I assumed that was what you were trying to express. No, I don’t believe that guns have personalities or feelings. I suppose you were trying to be hilariously ironic rather than simply communicate.

Oh thank fuck the shooter is brown and has a Middle-Eastern name. Now we can take action and continue to justify our aggressive military policy around the world (especially in the Middle-East). And now we can continue to justify our collective xenophobia and call for the suppression of civil rights of people who aren’t like us. I was so worried that the shooter was WASPy, because then there would just be nothing we can do about this sort of thing.

You bet @Darth_Algar all in the name of oil uh, Freedom yeah that’s it.

Screaming Allah Akbar is always a clue. Pledging allegiance to Al-Baghdadi is another clue. It may be nice to pretend this is not Islamic Terrorism but a reality check may be in order. Gun control didn’t help in Paris either. Nor is beefing up our Mental Health Care system likely to have much impact on an ideological war like we have here. Maybe it’s time to relook at the democratic talking points rather than just regurgitating the same old crap every time there’s an attack.

Except this guy is very likely using American anti-Islamic hate as a cover.

He’s reported by his family to be violent and homophobic. He’s reported to not be particularly religious, and he is reported to have called 911 and shouted something about an ISIS leader before the shooting began.

The guy is an American. Born here. A citizen of the USA. We don’t get to blame him on some other country. If he’s fucked up, we did it.

Very relieved to hear a similar attack in Los Angeles was thwarted by a neighbor who saw a heavily armed man headed to a Pride parade.

It doesn’t matter if he’s American or Muslim or ISIS or mentally ill. What matters is that a hater had access to a weapon that should not be in any civilian’s hand. Until we figure that out, we are fucked.

He bought the weapons 2 days ago. And that is after the the FBI looking into him multiple times since 2013.

Edit :: I am somewhat shocked this took so long.

He was interviewed twice for running his mouth about his ties to terrorist groups. None of his claims could be verified, likely because he’s just a little schmuck who runs his mouth.

Unfortunately it’s not illegal to be a schmuck.

But it should be enough to maybe put you on some sort of list where they won’t sell you a gun.

What? like some kind of background check law? This is AMERICA, @johnpowell. We don’t have LAWS against stuff like that!

So the FBI is either incompetent or complicit.

I know. It sounds fucking crazy.

And I know if he was totally determined he would have got the weapons someplace else. But he might have tried the gun shop first and that could have sent a signal that said hey, “This guy on our list is trying to buy a AR-15 and tons of ammo. Look into it”.

@ragingloli :: Like Seek said they can’t really Gitmo him for saying stupid shit. If they could 10% of 4Chan would be living in Cuba.

This was on TV two days ago.

I never have figured out why people need guns in the first place. It used to make sense when we needed to kill our own food, but now, I don’t get it.

Once again, I have distinct memories of a time in the country when a region, town, territory, etc. was regarded as “civilized” when guns were restricted and forbidden in public places. Every town in the country vied to keep ahead of its neighbors and eliminate the guns on the streets, following the foolish notion that gunplay is unlikely if there are no guns. Now that we’re “smarter”, the exact opposite of that former silliness is getting its experimental workout. So unlike those good old days, we are now much more secure when EVERYBODY’s packin.

@YARNLADY seeing this is in social so I will answer you, being a firearm enthusiast we use our guns for hunting and sport, target, clay, and so on it is a sport that we enjoy.
As to why we need them, why does someone need a sports car that can do 4times the speed limit?
People will argue that firearms are meant to kill and that is their only purpose I won’t disagree that some are designed to do just that , but sporting firearms do more than that, they have evolved beyond just being a combat weapon.
Again I won’t disagree there has to be some sort of gun control, but do you really think criminals care about legally obtaining their guns??
THIS night club shooting is a horrible sad crime, but lets not blame the guns or the religion instead lets focus on what drives these idiots to commit such an act in the first place and lets blame that and fight that.
And you could totally outlaw guns and the criminals will still obtain them we all know that, Hard drugs are totally outlawed and people still get their hands on them see how that worked?

lets focus on what drives these idiots to commit such an act in the first place and lets blame that and fight that.

You mean like guns and religion?

And now the country is so overrun with weaponry that it is literally impossible to control either the guns among us or who can get em.

Nice try @Seek I own quite a few firearms and am not about to go shoot up a public place, and while I am not of any religious faith, true muslims are not into doing this type of crime either.
We have to get down to why these people become so mentally ill they feel they have to do this type of crime.
I think the true villain is mental illness and try to fight that so people get the help they need before they feel they have to commit such a crime.

I love how the ant-gun people scream just take the guns away and everyone will be safe,yeah Hitler said the same thing in the 1930’s to his country look how well that worked?

Hard drugs have been illegal for years and yet there are still millions of drug abusers has is that possible?

except of course that Hitler actually relaxed the Weimar Republic’s strict gun laws for “ordinary” German citizens.

@SQUEEKY2 “I love how the ant-gun people scream just take the guns away”

Where did anyone say that? Why do we have to explain the difference between “taking guns away” and “having sensible gun restrictions” Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

I have a gun. A deer doesn’t just die from my mind so I can make jerky.

I do however wonder why this guy wasn’t subject to a background check. And also why you can legally purchase a gun that can fire off enough rounds to kill 50 and wound 53 in a matter of minutes.

I only need one bullet to make dinner.

My first thought when I heard about the shooting very early this morning was that three people in the last week told me Orlando has high crime. Then I thought how horrific for these 20 odd (that was the count then) people.

For the next few hours I was completely incommunicado, so I had no idea what facts had been found.

Then at lunch I was back out in the world, and I asked a waitress if she had heard anything. She told us more like 50 people killed and it was a gay club. That the gunman’s father said his son was very angry when he recently saw a gay couple kiss.

My eyes welled up a little.

What I thought at that moment was, gay clubs, synogogues, black churches, etc., etc. I felt like this affects us all.

I posted on Facebook that I couldn’t help but think of the poem by Martin Niemöller, first they came/when they came, we all need to join together against such hate and violence. The poem is about a government, but I think it can apply to any hate crimes.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

I’m very happy to say that all of my Orlando friends have checked in safe. Others are not so lucky, but in this case, for me, it is a small relief.

@Seek I keep feeling like I’m going to hear a friend of a friend was there.

Gun culture in the US:

“Ah uses dem fir huntin shit”…Err, go to the butcher shop meathead!

“I need them to defend my family & property from nasty intruders”…Man up you fucking pussy!!

“It’s my historic right to bear arms”…Neanderthal, bullshit

The end

Almost certainly. 103 victims is a lot of victims. I’m hoping my husband waits to check his Facebook until tomorrow.

This guy was a security guard. He carried a weapon for his job. When the FBI investigated him, they didn’t take away his weapon. What exactly do you all think a background check would have done? If the FBI cleared him, there was nothing more to find.

@Seek

“Very relieved to hear a similar attack in Los Angeles was thwarted by a neighbor who saw a heavily armed man headed to a Pride parade.”

Thanks for the link.

I tried to volunteer to work an HRC table for today, but the organizer never got back to me with the details.

@Jaxk

And background checks, as they are now, are largely pointless because law enforcement agencies across all levels do not effectively share information with each other.

What exactly do you all think a background check would have done? If the FBI cleared him, there was nothing more to find.

Maybe if conservatives were not working to protect terrorists, the background check would have showed something.

Senate Republicans rejected a bill that aims to stop suspected terrorists from legally buying guns.

Drat: my avatar appears to say “LOVE HATE”, as if I have a metaphysically romantic relationship with hate.

That bill circumvents due process. They were right to reject it.

Florida already does background checks and nothing stopped this sale. Maybe they should employ physics to determine who gets a gun.

@SQUEEKY2 I enjoy target shooting, and I am happy with a water gun or a paint-ball gun. I don’t need a bullet to make it more enjoyable. I used to be a champion target archer with a vintage long bow.

I believe shooting wildlife with a camera is a great sport/hobby as well.

When I was 5 years old, my Choctaw grandpa took the whole family on a hunting trip. I hit a target shooting a shotgun, and I also helped skin a deer. I am not against eating dead animals.

In my mind, an assault rifle is a killing machine, not a sport gun.

Sad. Sad for those who died, and for their families and friends.

It was domestic terrorism, based upon homophobia. It was no more political than Newtown or Aurora.

I’m sure that the NRA is gleeful.

Actions like this in Orlando help them gain members on the wacky theory that additional guns would have been beneficial.

And also that Obama is going to take your guns away. I know what stocks I am buying in the morning.

Glad I picked up some .22 ammo recently. The Trump supporters will be hoarding it again.

How many times has Obama taken their guns away now? Five? Six?

Oh, Here’s the other guy who tried to shoot up LA Pride before someone spotted him and called it in.

He looks like Frodo Baggins.
I suppose no one will start freaking out about deporting Hobbit extremists.

^He does look like a hobbit!

@Call_Me_Jay I have not seen any around here sine Obama was re-elected. Still scarce.

It was a terrorist action by an islamic extemist. The fact that the club was for gay people is irrelevant.

@MollyMcGuire I disagree. It was a hate crime by a homophobic individual with a history of domestic violence. It was neither ordered or coordinated by the Islamic State. The ties to the Islamic State are incidental, and the claim by the Islamic State is opportunistic.

@MollyMcGuire How can the fact that it’s a gay club be irrelevant? Is that the same as so many Christian Right politicians and their followers saying the assault on the people in the church in Charleston was a hate crime against Christians? It was a black church.

The shooter in Orlando drove from Ft. Pierce to kill the people in this club. It’s almost two hours to get there. He could have picked Disney World, God forbid, about the same amount of distance, and killed people from all over the country and world and children. He would not have made it into the parks, but Disney Springs is packed full this time of year with tourists. To say this wasn’t targeted at gay people is dismissive of what gay and other minority groups have to live with in terms of being more at risk of no acceptance and violence. They are, we are (as minorities) much more at risk than the “average white Christian male” to use a familiar saying.

Maybe this shooting is tied to ISIS too, it sounds like ISIS might have helped this man be in the mindset to kill, but he still targeted a gay club. Not nearby Disney, God forbid, which would be beyond traumatic in multiple ways, no, a gay night club. You can’t ignore it.

There is a question that keeps nagging at me about this and related incidents. Do the people responsible intend to be killed, at least in some cases? Is this just an elaborate suicide? I remember this point being suggested in the Newtown shootings.

What if we went out of our way not to kill these people? Maybe they can be captured by taser. Maybe if the perpetrators rotted away in jail for the rest of their lives, others might be more reluctant to cause such massacres.

I know this sounds counter-intuitive. I just mention it as something to consider.

No one is getting close enough to someone shooting an AR-15 to taze them on purpose.

Besides, if they see they’re about to get caught, they certainly have the means to kill themselves if that’s what they want.

Do the people responsible intend to be killed

Even if they do not consciously go in planning to kill themselves, once they’re faced with a pile of bodies, I think they see death is the one way to avoid facing the consequences.

The Orlando murderer took it to the extreme, but we see it on a weekly basis in the US – some angry loser kills his family and then himself after a “barricade situation”.

If they were not killed, the taxpayers would be paying for them to have appeal after appeal in the courts, and we’d be paying for them to have their three hots and a cot in jail for decades.

I’m not sorry they all generally end up dead but it would be beneficial for us to investigate their mentality and what makes them tick.

The public are quick to blame the firearm or a religion , how about blaming the the real culprit MENTAL ILLNESS, and the States with their private medical system.
These people that do these crimes be whoever is the target are truly mentally ill, and should have had treatment long before they committed such crimes.
And maybe with a universal health care system that everyone could access ,not just the people that can afford it , maybe a lot less of these type crimes would happen.
BUT NO lets keep blaming firearms and religion, and leave the mentally ill alone to keep committing these horrible crimes.

Really quick to blame “mental illness”.
So you do not have to think about the effects of ideological indoctrination on people’s behaviour.
The widespread support for the Nazis was not because all those millions of Germans were “mentally ill”.
All those Nazi soldiers committing atrocities was not because they were “mentally ill”.
The persecution and murder of heretics and “witches” was not because the christian leadership was “mentally ill”.
Islamist fighters are not all “mentally ill”.
The widespread support of the murder of gays in Central African countries does not mean that all those Africans are “mentally ill”.
The Oregon “militia” terrorists were not “mentally ill”.

Beliefs control actions, and just because some of these actions turn out to be violent, does not make those the result of “mental illness”.

As a (probably, I’ve never been officially diagnosed) mentally ill person, I take exception to the notion that instead of controlling guns we should just – what? – round up and shoot the mentally ill, lest they shoot up a nightclub/school/parade/whatever.

Hate crimes are crimes of hate. Hate doesn’t grow in a vacuum. Hate isn’t a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Mental illness isn’t a guy who beats his wife so much that her Muslim family breaks up the marriage to get her out. Mental illness doesn’t teach people to become violently angry when they see two men making out. Mental illness doesn’t give you the wherewithal to brush off the FBI twice, and still manage to buy a firearm that allows you to shoot over 200 rounds in less than five minutes.

I don’t know how we go about the mental illness thing either. some of these shooters are mentally ill, some are fanatics and others are just drugged/deranged. A psychopath is not likely going to be a shooter, they just don’t care enough. I certainly don’t think we can police ideology.

Blaming mental illness is a cop-out and an extremely over-broad brush stroke. It presumes that everyone with a mental illness will be violent. This is just as bad a presuming that every gun owner is going to act violently.

A few quick stats: Since 2006, nearly 25% of mass killings weren’t shootings at all. More fatalities resulted from bombs (think 9/11 and Oklahoma City).

Regardless of the weapon, the number of mass killings has remained consistent for the past 10 years—about one every two weeks. Public mass shootings occur two to four times per year.

9/11 is not the same kind of thing. There’s a site maintained by Mother Jones that keeps a running spread sheet containing all mass shootings in America in which at least four people die. It has a strict criteria for what counts for inclusion: a single shooter, etc. The massacre at wounded knee was a militia activity, so it wouldn’t count, for instance.

In any case, it tracks everything from 1982 to today. I’ll post the link when I’m back at the computer.

@Jaxk The gun situation in this country is very much like the drug problem in that it is too late to try to legislate or regulate our way out of our difficulties. What good is a background check on an individual looking for a gun if only one out of every 20 guns in the country is a registered firearm. I mean if the damned things are more plentiful than dirt, why bother with troublesome paperwork, waiting periods, etc. when you can pick up an assault rifle down the street for half the money and none of the fuss?

It’s coming out that the gunman might have been gay. He was a regular at that club and also used gay dating apps like Grindr.

“I feel like it’s a side of him or a part of him that he lived but probably wouldn’t want everybody to know about,” Yusufiy said of her husband’s partying ways. However, when asked whether she believes her ex-husband was gay, Yusufiy said, “I don’t know. He never personally, or physically, made any indication while we were together of that, but he did feel very strongly about homosexuality,” she said.

“I recognized him off Grindr,” Cord Cedeno told NBC. “I recognized him from one of the apps but I instantly blocked him because, like, he was very creepy in his messages.”

Article

I suspect this was motivated by severe shame and denial over his identity, partially because his religious beliefs didn’t leave room for him to be homosexual.

I just read that too, very sad.

Well this should put an end to all that demonic ISIS operative bullshit.

Here is the Mother Jones spreadsheet in Google Docs view.

Here are the names of those who lost their lives that night:

Edward Sotomayor Jr., 34
Stanley Almodovar III, 23
Luis Omar Ocasio-Capo, 20
Juan Ramon Guerrero, 22
Eric Ivan Ortiz-Rivera, 36
Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz, 22
Luis S. Vielma, 22
Kimberly Morris, 37
Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30
Darryl Roman Burt II, 29
Deonka Deidra Drayton, 32
Alejandro Barrios Martinez, 21
Anthony Luis Laureano Disla, 25
Jean Carlos Mendez Perez, 35
Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50
Amanda Alvear, 25
Martin Benitez Torres, 33
Luis Daniel Wilson-Leon, 37
Mercedez Marisol Flores, 26
Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado, 35
Gilberto Ramon Silva Menendez, 25
Simon Adrian Carrillo Fernandez, 31
Oscar A Aracena-Montero, 26
Enrique L. Rios, Jr., 25
Miguel Angel Honorato, 30
Javier Jorge-Reyes, 40
Joel Rayon Paniagua, 32
Jason Benjamin Josaphat, 19
Cory James Connell, 21
Juan P. Rivera Velazquez, 37
Luis Daniel Conde, 39
Shane Evan Tomlinson, 33
Juan Chevez-Martinez, 25
Jerald Arthur Wright, 31
Leroy Valentin Fernandez, 25
Tevin Eugene Crosby, 25
Jonathan Antonio Camuy Vega, 24
Jean C. Nives Rodriguez, 27
Rodolfo Ayala-Ayala, 33
Brenda Lee Marquez McCool, 49
Yilmary Rodriguez Sulivan, 24
Christopher Andrew Leinonen, 32
Angel L. Candelario-Padro, 28
Frank Hernandez, 27
Paul Terrell Henry, 41
Antonio Davon Brown, 29
Christopher Joseph Sanfeliz, 24
Akyra Monet Murray, 18
Geraldo A. Ortiz-Jimenez, 25

Thank you @Brian1946.