So... the Pope has capitulated with regards to the use of condoms and the spread of AIDS, in light of overwhelming common sense?

It’s a bit late really isn’t?

The Pope sez: “it can nevertheless be a first step on the way to another, more humane sexuality.”

The Pope also sez: “this can be… a first bit of responsibility, to redevelop the understanding that not everything is permitted and that one may not do everything one wishes.”

A bit of a backhanded capitulation, along the lines of, “Yes, use condoms to prevent infection, but also use them in hopes of discovering the wrongness of your ways.”

I’m glad this has happened, but this makes the Pope only marginally less evil than he has appeared to me heretofore w/r/t his position on sexuality and contraception. And he still refuses to permit birth control. So, while I’m thankful, I’m not sure “forgiveness” is exactly the right word.

Source.

The Pope is infallible and speaks God’s words.
So I think God must have changed his mind on this issue.

Big whoop. He still refuses the logic of using condoms for contraception or male-female intercourse. We have a long long way to go before the Catholic Church enters the 19th century.

@Kraigmo – papal infallibility is limited to statements that meet the formal structure necessary to qualify as ex cathedra (or from the church). Statements on morality from the pope can contradict church doctrine as long as the previous statements were not made ex cathedra.

That being said, this is not at all a powerful enough statement to make up for the harm the previous dogma caused. I like the fact that the church is growing up. Now they need to fully fess up. Until then, I’m in the “too little, too late” camp on this one, but would like to see productive discussion on how it can move forward.

@Kraigmo I can see the new tag line already:

Ribbed for His enjoyment!

@CyanoticWasp oh, the cards and letters!

Historically, have priests been permitted to use condoms when buggering choir boys?

@iamthemob, does this mean no previous Popes ever claimed that the Church position on contraception was an ex cathedra decision? Thanks for the info, I defer to you on Catholic matters.

@CyanoticWasp, haha

@Kraigmo – as to that, I have no idea. They’ll probably say no, though. ;-)

@iamthemob I randomly have something to add on that, the most recent decision on contraceptives was made by Pope John Paul, and he explicitly stated that it was not ex cathedra. He was also probably the most progressive pope ever elected, and a far sight better then the current one, so he was pretty good on the subject of sex. Unlike Benedict.

So I agree that this is hardly a major step. I’ve also become rather pessimistic as far as Benny goes, so maybe that’s just me.

@BhacSsylan what does that mean? That Pope John Paul II was ok with contraception, or not ok?

@BhacSsylan – John Paul was incredibly progressive for the Catholic Church – and at just the right time.

Thanks for the update – I’m glad that someone new that!

@JLeslie – I’m not certain what the statement was, but whatever it was it means that it wasn’t expressed as a mandate of the church, such expressions which are meant to be infallible and inalterable. His opinion was strongly against the use of condoms, for birth control or as a method for controlling the spread of HIV. Horribly destructive at the time.

@JLeslie I’m sorry, should have expained a little further. As @iamthemob said, John Paul, like the rest of the popes, believed that contraceptives should not be used. However, since he stated that it definitely was not ex cathedra, he was essentially saying “Okay guys, this is what I think, but I’m open to the idea that i’m wrong”. Which, just by itself, is rather progressive action for a Pope. Was a shame he was still wrong, though.

@BhacSsylan So he thinks condoms are not ok, but he is open to the idea he is wrong? Excuse my ignorance on this I am lost in the terms you are using.

@JLeslie Yeah, that’s it. Sorry! Being brought up catholic and having gone to a catholic high school I guess i’m not used to having to explain some terms. My bad.

@BhacSsylan No problem. That is what I like about the Catholic church, they are willing to look at science and consider things. I know the Catholic church is accused of the opposite a lot of the time. Did you see the movie Religilous? The Catholics were the most sane in the movie in my opinion.

That really highly depends on the person. I actually got the polar opposites during my time in high school. One priest taught junior religion, and he was a bit of an ass. The class got in arguments with him all the time over various things, and he usually came out the worse for wear, resorting to “well, i know better then you, with all my training. Now quiet down.”

On the other hand, my senior religion teacher (who also happened to be the principal), was just generally awesome. Very open minded, highly rational, and just a generally a very smart guy. Treated us like adults, too, which helped. He did a general history of religion with us, and handled topics very well, like opening abortion up to debate in the class, and getting lots of reactions (some quite heated, mine among them unfortunately), and concluded class mostly with saying “It’s a very complex and charged issue”, and let us make up our own minds. When we learned about Islam (keep in mind this was also after 9/11), he gave us a picture of a highly learned and cultured religion (which it was/is). And about the radials, he said “Islam is just going through a hard time, as all religions do. We went through a bad time during the crusades. As Islam is younger, it’s going through it’s bad time now.” And, central to this question, when I asked him about the doctrine of papal infallibility (the doctrine which gives the pope the ability to speak ex cathedra), he told me “Well, actually that was mostly a political move. The church was hoping to combat the surge of nationalism”.

So, yeah. There’s lots of asses, like my first teacher and, i fear, Benedict (can’t say he’s done much I approve of beyond this, which just says “eh, i guess you should try not to die”). But then you have lots of awesome people, like my principal and John Paul II. Just have to take the ones you like and hope the other ones don’t bother you too much.

What looked like a revolution turned out to be an upgrade from Dark Ages Version 1.0 to 1.0.1 running unstable virus removal software.