A nut job just committed mass murder here in Canada a few days ago using a rental van, how come there isn't an out cry to ban rental vans?
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SQUEEKY2 (
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April 25th, 2018
After all they are super easy to obtain, all you need is a valid drivers license and a credit card.
You don’t even have to own it, you can just rent a weapon capable of killing lot’s of innocent people.
Believe me I am not poking light at the victims of this tragedy.
Just if this was done with a firearm people would be screaming ban them all, but nothing when some other weapon is used. WHY?
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Vans don’t kill people, people kill people.
Because vans aren’t designed to kill people, wheras guns are.
Theoretically, you could kill someone with Jello pudding, or cotton balls, but it would be kind of odd to ban those things too.
Guns are made to kill prople, that’s their main purpose (not shooting cans in the desert, although you can do that with guns too).
but the van did a great job as a weapon. @Kardamom
On a more serious note, cities are taking steps to minimize the distance vans can travel on sidewalks in many places through bollards, planters and other items that obstruct vehicles.
With everything except semi-automatic weapons we do this, make changes to laws and the environment to minimize a problem as it is identified.
And, more importantly, there is no NVA bribing government officials from making the necessary restrictions.
These days vans / trucks are being used for mass killings mainly in Europe but I don’t think they can be banned. Like mentioned above it should be somehow made difficult to stop that. And no you can’t compare guns n vans.
What I am comparing @imrainmaker is that a nut job will just adapt if they can’t obtain a firearm they will just get whatever they can to get the job done.
I will state again I am not against tougher firearm laws, but a ban on any of them is as stupid as wanting a ban on vehicles.
All that accomplishes is taking firearms out of the hands of people that would never use them illegally in the first place.
Your agenda is bleeding through. This question is so very disingenuous.
Vans are designed and are useful for purposes other than killing people.
And nowadays so has a lot of firearms, @Call_Me_Jay my Trap shotgun was never designed to kill people.
It was designed to shoot clay targets coming out of a small building in front of the shooters.
Boy am I ever glad you pointed that out @johnpowell ya caught me.
I demand all teachers be equipped with rental vans…
@SQUEEKY2 Those people in your imagination taking away your shotgun are so wrong!
It would be (or might yet become) a legitimate question if the van mass murder rate ever approaches the gun spree epidemic. But Squeek why rent a van, when you can steal one? Chances are the van you steal will have a gun under the driver’s seat.
I was just pointing out the nut job here did it in a rental van, that’s all.
And when a nut job kills a bunch of people with anything besides a gun, people just shrug and say what an idiot.
That same idiot kills the same number of people with a gun, people start screaming guns have got to go.
That is what makes me mad.
Believe me I still feel sad for all the victims no matter what killed them.
The anti gun people use every gun crime for their agenda, why can’t I use crimes like this for mine?
Vans are primarily designed for transportation.
Guns are primarily designed for killing.
Lorries and Vans are a vital part of a modern civilisation’s transport infrastructure.
@SQUEEKY2, what do you use your guns for (other than destroying things)?
Some guy using a van to plow over pedestrians, is misappropriation of the van.
Some guy mowing down people with an AR15, is using the product exactly as intended.
Just once I’d like to hear a story about someone misappropriating a gun to do something constructive with it.
I know you know all this and are being disingenuous for the sake of argument, but I’ll spell it out anyway.
Vehicles are an essential tool that many people cannot live without. Unless you’re in a city where there’s public transportation, you need a vehicle in order to have a job, go to the grocery store, etc. People do not need AR-15s to survive. They would do just fine without them.
Besides, most gun control proponents aren’t looking to ban guns outright. They want stricter regulations. Vehicles are pretty well regulated. In order to drive a vehicle, you first have to pass a test indicating that you know how to use it responsibly. The same is not true of guns in America. Your vehicle must be registered. The same is not true of guns in America. Your license to drive a vehicle can be taken away if you demonstrate irresponsibility with it. The same is not true of guns in America.
Also this is just all the more reason to invest in those self-driving cars you so hate.
@squeeky. So what is an AR 15 designed for? Target shooting? Nope. It’s for killing at a rapid pace. I don’t think they should be in the hands of everyone that wants one.
And when a nut job kills a bunch of people with anything besides a gun, people just shrug and say what an idiot.
This is not true. Did you read @rojo‘s response? Changes are made to minimize potential harm. Changes were made at airports after 9/11. Changes were made when someone tried using their shoe as a bomb on a plane. But heaven help us if we mention changes to gun control.
There was an 18-wheeler that ran smack dab over a car with five college girls on I-26 near Statesboro, Georgia.
Why not ban 18-wheel tricks, @SQUEEKY2 ?
@Aethelwine Still haven’t forgiven that assh*le for the shoe bomb but am grateful it was not an underwear bomb.
We can wait and see which method of mass murder wins the death toll contest, but we ALL know where the smart money is.
Was the mishap with the 18 wheeler done on purpose @elbanditoroso ?
Or an accident?
My point is, and I have to stress but most of you won’t read or understand this I AM NOT AGAINST STRONGER FIREARM LAWS!!!!
I am against any kind of ban on firearms.
But making stronger laws, is it going to cut down on these mass killings?
Murder is very much against the law and yet it happens all the time,did the nut jobs committing murder once think wait this is against the law, I can’t do this it’s illegal.
This idiot that ran over these people up here had nothing to do with terrorism, he was a loser that had trouble with women, couldn’t get a girlfriend type thing.
Most of this guys victims were women.
And saying vehicles are heavily regulated, this guy had no problem renting one.
And saying rental vans should be banned sounds pretty stupid RIGHT??
The difference is there is legitimate need for vehicles. What possible, legitimate need could a civilian have for an AR-15 where another, less destructive gun, wouldn’t suffice.
As another member pointed out they use them to hunt wild pigs. @Mariah
Do I think that rifle or rifles like that should be heavily restricted, YES!!! should they be banned because some people use them illegally NO!!!
Well Squeek, why is it that 99 out of 100 nut jobs pick the gun? A strong argument can be made for the travails that would be visited on the society through the elimination of rental vans. I have difficulty conjuring up societal benefits from the AR-15.
You can hunt with other guns.
I agree @Mariah, I don’t own nor want any assault style firearms.
But do you really think it will be all rainbows and unicorns if they suddenly became banned, nut jobs are like insects they adapt and find other means to complete their carnage, all that is really affected is the law abiding citizen that would never use their gun illegally in the first place.
I still think they should be heavily restricted, and lots of checks and balances have to be met before one can own one.
@SQUEEKY2, I think you’re missing the point that so many are making. Very few people are calling for a ban on firearms in general. Just reasonable regulation.
Why do you defend, so vehemently, the AR-15? My BIL (who lives in Victoria, BTW, and has been hunting all through BC for 50 years) has never needed anything like that. He fills their freezer every year with, and donates to shelters and community kitchens, venison and moose, sometimes bear, and has defended himself against cougars and lynx, all without an AR-15.
I think it would be one incremental step towards improving our gun violence situation here in the US.
@canidmajor have you read any of my posts??
I am not against stronger gun laws, and I think I have said that a few times, I am against any kind of ban on any firearm.
As I have said before should these types of weapons be heavily restricted, YES!!!
Should they be banned ,NO!!!!!
I am not the only one missing the point here.
So let me get this right @Mariah , by making this style of firearm illegal ,will cut down on nut jobs using it illegally?
That makes as much sense, as screaming making rental vans illegal.
Dude, you don’t have to yell at us.
Oh, @SQUEEKY2, for pete’s sake, your original premise was so wildly stupid that it’s hard to take anything you say son this thread seriously. Why not ban some sorts of firearms? There are already firearms that citizens are prohibited from using, do you think that this is some kind of slippery slope that will suddenly cause a dearth of weapons to be had for your gratification? Are you about to be overrun with wild boars?
A lesser weapon will inflict lesser damage. Most of the Parkland victims died because of the concussive force of the weapon used, a bunch could very likely have been saved had they been shot with a less powerful gun.
I posted this to another one of your Qs (that was remarkably similar to this one) and I guess you didn’t read it then. Maybe do so now, it’s pertinent. It talks about what I just said, why the AR-15 does a different kind of damage.
I just have to say I am so glad you don’t have children @SQUEEKY2.
I get the point of the q, but I think we’ve beat this dead horse enough.
Have there been any actual changes in gun laws? Not really.
I think that’s because no middle ground has been found. I also think that AR’s are getting too much spot light. Mass shootings are terrible, but they are very rare, compared to the typical way people die of gun violence.
Again. The problem here was a person who wanted to kill lots of people. How we stop that, is beyond me…
@SQUEEKY2 you might as well give it up. Most of the people on this thread don’t understand or won’t admit it isn’t the inanimate object that does the killing. It is the people. We have had this same discussion over and over. Car crashes kill as many, if not more, people than guns. The evil AR-15’s make up a ridiculously low number of the actual murders. Knives kill more people than AR-15’s. Handguns kill more people than knives do. But in the end…it doesn’t matter. None of these objects are actually killing anyone…it is the person controlling it that causes the death and mayhem. But to admit that takes all the wind out of the sail of most gun control/gun seizure arguments. And most aren’t willing to do anything that might challenge that sacred cow.
@seawulf575. I have nothing against guns. I have one. I know how to shoot a gun. My problem is with people obtaining any type of assault rifle. Citizens have no need for them. They are made to kill more people quickly. That seems to be the gun of choice for the kids that are shooting up schools and churches. You state it is the person who is doing the killing. Yes, so keep assault weapons out of the public hands. You may be able to survive a knife attack, but you won’t survive a bullet from an assault rifle.
@chyna: It seems that the people who would benefit the most from reading the link I posted are the least likely to do so. Shame. It’s a non-partisan discussion of damage done by different sorts of weapons. But it’s easier to hide behind that old saw “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. @seawulf575 and @SQUEEKY2 don’t seem to understand that there is a difference.
I am NOT against outlawing high capacity magazines for semi auto guns.
That would make a difference, you anti gunners , do you even know what caliber the AR15 uses?
I have a bolt action target rifle that shoots the exact same cartridge, and because of the closed action it delivers higher bullet energy, varmint shooting it blows gophers apart, is that rifle next?
Do you even know how much this evil AR15 costs you make it sound like you can pick them up at Wal-Mart for $19.95
Up here that rifle is $2000 and up
Down there they usually start around $1000 and up.
I am not against heavily restricting the rifle, make it as hard to get as a hand gun.
The media is sensationalizing the dreaded AR 15 making it sound like everyone owns one and how bad they are.
A lot of other rifles including my target rifle shoot the same cartridge, you make it sound like owning one is like a druggie on crack, you will eventually use it illegally.
Go for banning high capacity mags, and bump stocks and I am on your side, keep up the banning of the rifle all firearm enthusiasts will just turn their backs on you.
Still didn’t read the article, Huh, @SQUEEKY2. Never mind, I didn’t really expect you to. But that’s all right, the next time you ask this Q, I’ll link it again. Pretty sure you won’t read it then, either, but others might, and they’ll understand the difference between being shot with an AR-15 and a semi-automatic 9mm handgun (also a pretty formidable weapon). But because the AR-15 is a _rifle you defend it? Geez.
Never mind.
I read the fucking article @canidmajor and you still blame the gun, it’s that caliber that is doing the damage, it’s horrific what it does to the human body.
Also a good choice for shooting wild pigs.
Any firearm is a deadly weapon I wouldn’t want to be shot with a 22.
Ban high capacity magazines and it would cut down on the body count, but no keep focusing in on the gun it self how typical anti gun of you.
Pigs before kids.~
Do you realize how stupid this excuse sounds? “We need this to kill pigs!”
OK let’s look at this from your side, how would you ban this evil weapon, with already millions in civilian hands?
Do you think everyone would just voluntary hand the gun in, a gun they paid $1000 plus for?
@Mariah that guy up here did a pretty good job with a rental van.
@SQUEEKY2 You are disappearing up your own rabbit hole. @Aethelwine has it right. The right to be able to kill wild pigs is more important than trying to safeguard people from mass murder?
Perhaps if you had children and if you lived in the States you might not be so “pig-headed” about our wish for greater control (not a total ban) of guns and their use.
Since you feel that we can’t discuss guns because we don’t own them maybe you can shut up about mass murder by guns in America since you don’t live here.
I AM NOT AGAINST STRONGER GUN LAWS!!!!!!!!!
And I am not going to shut up when anti gunners don’t look at the whole picture!
I am saddened by any murder mass or not, committed with a rental van, or a machine gun.
I have stated over and over heavily restrict that rifle, no one has read that, I have said over and over outlaw high capacity mags no one has read or understood that as well.
Just the AR is evil and has to go.
Who is being pig headed here?
I don’t think it’s just me.
So far, I have lived 60 years. And in those 60 years, I have yet to see a wild pig.
@SQUEEKY2 If we get this specific weapon out of the hands of future wannabe killers we could save thousands of innocent lives (and pigs~) in the future. We may not be able to get all of these guns out of the hands of those who already have them, but this is a start for a safer future. You are looking at the now. We are looking at the future. If we only focus on mental health it will take a generation or longer to fix that problem, and there’s no guarantee that that would solve the problem of mass shooters who use this specific weapon.
And you’re going to need a better excuse than “pigs” for the need of civilians to own this weapon.
“I AM NOT AGAINST STRONGER GUN LAWS!!!!!!!!!”
Good.
So I’m not sure what we’re arguing about?
Bet you could kill a few wild pigs with that van.
I am against any ban on any kind of firearm that is already in civilian hands @janbb , I am not against making those firearms that are already in civilian hands heavily restricted.
Maybe needing a license to own and and keep it, make safe storage mandatory for people that want to have those kinds of firearms.
And limit the age that one can own a firearm without adult supervision.
That is what I am trying to get across if anyone reads this and comprehends it.
@canidmajor Naw, wild pigs are a lot smarter than your average human.
Since niether you nor I are in charge of what will happen, I see no point in arguing further.
@SQUEEKY2 You are coming across loud and clear. We hear you. Some of us just don’t agree with everything you have to say.
@Aethelwine You don’t agree with certain firearms needing to be heavily restricted, outlawing high capacity magazines and bump stocks?
And have an age limit where one can own a firearm with out adult supervision??
Ok I give up.
People are as ignorant about firearms as they are about transport trucks.
I don’t like them so no one should have them for any reason type thing.
I would be amenable to a restriction on high capacity vehicles….
and turbochargers….
and glass packs…..
@SQUEEKY2 “You don’t agree with certain firearms needing to be heavily restricted, outlawing high capacity magazines and bump stocks? And have an age limit where one can own a firearm with out adult supervision??”
Oh come on. This is your most disingenuous comment yet. Those of us you are arguing with are in favor of common sense restrictions like that. But some of us are also in favor of ending sales of AR-15s to civilians. That’s the part you disagree on.
Wrong I am not against the sales of new assault style weapons, just the ban of ones that are already in civilian hands.
Did you read and understand that?
No, I was under the impression you were against measures to rid of any particular type of gun. So you would be ok with just ending sales of this style of gun? What about the wild pigs?
@Mariah I have no problem ending the sales of new assault style rifles.
And heavily restricting the ones that are already in civilian hands.
I have no problem with outlawing high capacity magazines and bump stocks.
I have no problem with an age limit on firearm ownership, without adult supervision.
I am also for mandatory by law safe storage of all firearms.
As for the wild pig hunting if they don’t already own an AR type rifle they can try and buy a used one or use a different type rifle altogether.
I DO HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH A BAN ON ANY FIREARM ALREADY IN CIVILIAN HANDS!
get me now??
This is making my head hurt. @SQUEEKY2 You have insisted time and time again that a ban on AR-15 is something you are against. This is where we disagree. We agree on everything else. Don’t put words in my mouth. You are the one not listening.
You have never said you have no problem ending the sales of new assault style rifles. This is a first from you from what I’ve witnessed. You have only yelled about how a ban is wrong in your eyes. I don’t think anyone has ever suggested we round up all the AR-15s and lock them up. We are against future sales for civilians.
Can’t wait for another variation of this question to come up again from you in a week or two.~
I can’t wait either.it’s been fun.
Personally @Aethelwine I don’t know why people want that type of rifle, but for those that do and use them safely then have at it.
And again I think it’s a sensationalizing from the media the AR15 is an expensive rifle, but there are lot’s of cheaper Chinese knock offs that these nut jobs do get ahold of and the media calls them all AR15’s.
I feel the wild pigs would also like to see the AR-15 banned.
^^ But then the hunters would have to turn to rental vans^^
@canidmajor I have read your link and it is foolishness. Does a high velocity round do more damage than a low velocity round? Sure. But guess what? A 12 gauge shotgun will put them both to shame. And have you ever seen the damage from a really bad car crash? It ranks right up there as well. But I notice while you are ranting about the AR-15’s, you entirely failed to address any of the other facts that are on the table and purposely avoid the actual question @SQUEEKY2 put forth. FACT: A gun, sitting by itself, will not get up and kill anyone. FACT: Knives kill about 3 times more people in this country every year than rifles, the category to which your evil AR-15 belongs. FACT: The knife, sitting by itself, will not get up and kill anyone. FACT: there are as many vehicular deaths in this country each year as gun deaths. FACT: There isn’t a car in this world that, without the help of a human, will start itself up and kill someone. Even the driverless cars require someone to start them up and put them on the street. It isn’t guns or knives or cars or vans or even bombs that kill people. It is, indeed, people that kill people. There are probably close to 5 million people that own AR-15s in this country. A very few are used to kill people. And here’s the funny part: they have probably saved as many lives as they have taken. So get over the idea that a gun is somehow evil or that those that own them are somehow looney. Get over your focus on how much damage a given gun can do. Your article cites that handgun shootings do less damage than an AR-15. That tells me that you are obsessed. Handguns kill almost 25x as many people as rifles. So I guess if it kills but doesn’t damage as much as it does it is somehow better? You might want to actually read the article you cited and think about what it is saying.
@SQUEEKY2 I just wanted to point out that most people have avoided your original question. As I mentioned before…it doesn’t help their agenda so they will dodge and duck the actual question.
I know @seawulf575 weather it’s a rental van or a firearm murder is tragic regardless.
But when a firearm is used everyone gets their tits in a wringer saying ban,ban no one should have them.
And just shrug when another type of weapon is used, then say I have an agenda when I say let’s ban rental vans, after all it’s easy to obtain all you need is a credit card and a valid drivers license.
Sorta the same thing I hear when it comes to firearms,they are so easy to obtain.
Does there need to be stronger firearm laws YES.
But these laws that the anti gunners want will they really do much good, after all murder is against the law and it didn’t stop any of these nut jobs.
Not one person could even tell me the caliber of the evil AR15 is, just it does so much damage in the hands of a crazy person.
As you pointed out want to see the damage a riot shotgun can do?
I do see a slippery slope when any kind of gun ban is debated, My Target rifle shoots the same cartridge as the evil AR15, and with a closed action delivers higher bullet energy that gun next?
As I pointed out assault style rifles don’t interest me , but I will still defend them for people that do want them and use them safely.
Yes. Shotguns are far worse than ARs, as far as damage. The pellets in double odd buck shot, are comparable in size to a .22 round. Except there are 9, or more. Inside of 40–50 yards, a shotgun will mutilate soft tissue. Inside of 20 yards, where most shootings occur, their more lethal than almost any gun.
A slug, is even worse, if it hits it’s target…
I imagine that a van is even more deadly. And, given the circumstances, easier to acquire, and easier to use to kill lots of people.
I’m actually quite concerned about the driverless cars. I hope the designers, are making them.hard to hack….
Yeah me too @MrGrimm888 .
Imagine if a hacker can program it to go on a rampage you wouldn’t even have to be in it.
But it’s still the AR15 that concerns the mass public, not the crazy people, nor rental vehicles, just the AR15 if we get rid of that we will have nothing but unicorns and rainbows, all will be right with the world.
Well. I think a ban would maybe stop some mass shootings, or reduce casualties. But it’s clear that it would not stop mass killings. If we start banning everything that can hurt lots of people, where do we stop?..
And I’m kind of upset that people don’t seem to care about the thousands killed by other guns…
You can’t really blame them @MrGrimm888 they just focus on whatever firearm the media sensationalizes on, if the media sensationalized BBguns they would turn their attention that way.
Well. I think having schools shot up, is a big deal. That’s why everyone is worked up. Understandably so.
If they want to take a stand, or fight for something, they should look at the reality of gun violence. Pistols, are the real problem. But they don’t fall under any of the extreme categories, like an AR. The problem is that the wrong people end up with firearms. Some people acquire them illegally, on the street.
The bottom line is, there should be a much better vetting system, for people to acquire a firearm. That would have real effects on gun violence. There are still so many in circulation, but it would eventually slow the spread of guns to those who shouldn’t have them…
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