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seawulf575's avatar

Should Elizabeth Warren apologize for her Native American claims?

Asked by seawulf575 (6030points) 4 weeks ago

Elizabeth Warren released results of a DNA test recently to prove she was Native American. The results showed she had very little Native American heritage…no more than most people. Should she apologize for using her claim of Native American heritage as a minority thing?

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57 Answers

flutherother's avatar

I don’t think she ever claimed she was Native American only that she had some Native American ancestry. As the DNA results appear to confirm this why should she apologise?

notnotnotnot's avatar

@seawulf575 – Someone is going to spend some time responding, and it’s going to be embarrassing for you. But you will not admit how wrong you are. You’ll dig yourself deeper, and there will be no reason to continue.

My personal opinion: not interested in distractions that have no effect on my life or the lives of other humans on this planet. There are reasons that Warren should apologize – but certainly not for this.

Apologies should be flowing from anyone still talking about this.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

More important is Trump going to renege on the million dollars?

chyna's avatar

Obviously you want to start a thread where people argue with you for you to get attention.

JLeslie's avatar

Well, this goes back several years actually within her state. She had been accused of using her Native American status to get her position at Harvard. The accusation was during a senate run I think. Harvard has said that it was not a factor at all in her hiring.

It’s also been said that she lived in a mansion worth millions of dollars. A completely false rumor started by the right and passed around.

What I don’t know is if she actually has been filling out forms checking off or listing Native American. Forms census, or once hired, etc.

I seem to remember she said she had family stories passed down from her Native American side. That’s possible. Nothing wrong with that. It’s no different than people I know who find out they are a tiny bit Jewish (I know people this actually happened to) and suddenly they want to know all about it, and have some sort of shift in how they view their identity. They don’t suddenly become Jewish, but rather they start to learn stories in the family, and they feel like it matters.

The US government has strict standards to receive benefits for being Native American, I don’t think she’s ever tried to claim she was enough Native American to get some sort of government benefit.

She does have Native American ancestry, and for whatever reason, even though it’s very far back in the family, it seems her family stayed aware of it. I think that’s nice.

You said everyone has a little Native American in them. Not that I know of. What are the stats on that. I don’t think anyone I know who has done the DNA test came back with Native American, except for my friends who already knew, and they have the paperwork. I’m sure some people do get surprised and find out they have some Native American, but I don’t think it’s the huge number you portray it to be. Maybe you live in a part of the country where that happens more.

SaganRitual's avatar

Everyone exaggerates on job applications and in job interviews. Everyone lies to get ahead. She was by far not the only person lying/exaggerating about themselves to get the job, nor the next job, nor any job that people have to compete for. No one makes it to high political office without lying. It’s not a matter of her character. This fracas over her ancestry claim is the same as people harassing Bill Clinton about smoking pot when he was young, or George W’s desire not to get himself killed in a stupid war that had nothing to do with patriotism.

Should she apologize? From a moral standpoint, no. She hasn’t done anything wrong. From a political standpoint, no. The thing is, admitting error is taken as weakness by most people, and often results in some punishment or other, especially among those who lean rightward. I think it has to do with the parenting style of their parents. If you use punishment to guide your kids’ behavior, then they have a big dilemma when they do something that’s going to piss you off. They could tell the truth and get into trouble for doing the thing, although perhaps with some leniency for having courage. Or they could lie and not get into trouble at all. But then they know, if they ever come clean, they’ll be punished far worse. That’s the problem with punishment. It cuts off your options.

If Warren were to admit, or apologize, or make any kind of concession, many people, mostly those on the right but even many on the left, would punish her. She would lose many allies, especially among those who value morality more highly than even the most beneficial pragmatism. It’s more politically expedient for her to stick with her story and accept that although her enemies will make a big deal out of it, her allies will remain her allies.

LostInParadise's avatar

Most people do not have any Native American ancestry. Warren has been vindicated.

The big question is whether Trump is going to keep on calling her Pocahontas. As to whether Trump will pay her the million dollars he owes or apologize for calling her Pocahontas in the past, the answer is a definite no. Trump never makes mistakes. Just ask him.

rojo's avatar

I do not have any Native American DNA. I feel so….........alone. (I mean since EVERYONE else has some)

canidmajor's avatar

To whom, exactly, @seawulf575, should she apologize?

And, @seawulf575, just as an add-on here, do you feel that 45 owes the indigenous population an apology for invoking a famous Native American’s name in a method intended to mock and demean?

JLeslie's avatar

@SaganRitual What job application and interview did she lie in/on? From what I’ve read she didn’t try to use her Native American heritage in any interviews. Did she put it on a form when applying somewhere? Some places of business do have it on a form, but it’s optional to answer, because it’s basically illegal to require someone to answer. After people are hired is when that form is usually filled out in most places, so the company doesn’t risk getting accused of discrimination.

rebbel's avatar

“The results showed she had very little Native American heritage”
And
“Should Elizabeth Warren apologize for her Native American claims?”
Which one is it?
You can’t (well, you can, it just makes you look, errr…, not so intelligent) hint in the title that she falsely claimed to have Native American ancestors, and two sentences further on state that she has.
You know of course that people will counter it, you are not interested in trying to turn some of us (“liberals, democrats, socialists”).
I think I know how you reason (lol).
You hope your title alone is persuading potential Jellies, and bystanders, or lurkers, to believe your bullshit.
Because it works.
Well done.
Don’t bother (or do bother, I don’t give a fuck any longer) to respond.
I know you are good at putting words in a particular order, but seldom does a sentence that you create make any sense.
In my opinion.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Why apologize? Everything she claimed was proven true.

@seawulf575 – I don’t know what your problem is, vis-a-vis women, and particularly smart women, and particularly smart women who don’t mind speaking up, but your prejudice and irrationality is pretty clear.

Warren claimed one thing about her heritage and it was scientifically proven to be true. Get over it.

rockfan's avatar

She never claimed to be Native American

JeSuisRickSpringfield's avatar

The test results show that she has pretty much the exact amount of Native American heritage that she claimed to have, so what exactly is she supposed to apologize for? She never claimed to be a full-blooded Native or even to qualify for tribal membership (though not all tribes use blood quantum as a criterion). It’s surprising to find a politician who still tells the truth, but I don’t think that’s something she has to apologize for.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 .
Well. The test shows one fact. She is more truthful than our current POTUS. Will Trump.ever apologize, for his constant lies? Now there’s a thread, you can start. But it won’t be interesting, because we all know the answer…

Trump, and his slave “wife,” are still chasing the Obama birth certificate lie.

So. Of ALL of Trump’s lies, you decide to chase a lie from EW, that isn’t a lie? Yeah, and the liberals are SO biased.

You are definitely a “low information” voter. But, in this case, as I speculate in most, you have the facts. And yet you still happily eat Trump’s bullshit sandwiches.

I was always taught that there are no “stupid” questions. Maybe there are just stupid people…

mazingerz88's avatar

trump should apologize for being cruel. So he can move on to just being a douche.

gorillapaws's avatar

@seawulf575 ”Should she apologize for using her claim of Native American heritage as a minority thing?”

Could you support this statement with a primary source? It is my understanding that this was originally reported by the Boston Globe, which later ran a story after extensive research that determined her cultural heritage was never considered when making decisions about her employment.

Seems like you’ve been ingesting a healthy dose of fake news.

Demosthenes's avatar

It sounds like she exaggerated her ancestry. Many Americans have very small amounts of Native American DNA, but they don’t all act as if they are Cherokee. The Cherokee made it clear that DNA tests don’t determine who’s a member of the Cherokee Nation. Trump was being ridiculous, but Warren was being a bit disingenuous. She was taking family stories about her ancestry a bit too seriously, seemingly overestimating how much Native American blood she had.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Why do you even bother to suggest such a thing while the the Liar-in-Chief’s nonstop production of fraudulent claims continues to astound the world?

gondwanalon's avatar

Yes Elizabeth Warren should apologize for claiming to be Native American. When I was a young kid my Mom told me that my Father’s Mother was mostly Native American. I never even thought of using that information to gain an advantage in life. Last year I sent a DNA specimen to HomeDNA for analysis. I’m 10% indigenous South American and 4% Asian. Since I’m also 86% European then that’s my identity. I’m also a white male who can’t grow a beard. Feel sorry for me. HA!

rojo's avatar

My wifes family has a claim to relationship with Sam Bass (outlaw). But even after years of searching I have yet to find anything to substantiate the claim, not even family living next door to each other. Nothing. Family lore is sometimes exaggerated.
My family always claimed that George Harrison used to deliver meat to my grandmother when he was young. I always discounted it until I read a few years back that he had actually worked as a butcher delivery boy. Sometimes family lore is spot on.

KNOWITALL's avatar

There’s really no right answer here. All my family have cards, but I didn’t and probably don’t qualify, so maybe I have a smidge. Is it wrong to say it when it’s true, nope. Is it wrong to try to use that for political advantage, probably.

gorillapaws's avatar

I have always been told that my father’s side of the family has some Welsh in it. I believe someone on his side did some research back in the day (before I was born). I have no idea how much Welsh I have or if it’s even true. I just assume that I’m part Welsh and that’s what I tell people when they ask me. I know I have some Norwegian because my great grandfather immigrated to the US from there, but most of my European heritage is what others have told me.

I think I’m like many Americans. My heritage is a big mix. If I were filling out a document and there was a box that asked if I was Welsh, and one for Norwegian, I would probably check them both off without thinking of it. I certainly don’t think I’d be a liar if it turned out that my family lore was inaccurate. The intent isn’t to deceive. I certainly wouldn’t feel the need to apologize if it turned out that I had less Welsh heritage as a percentage than people feel I “ought” to have? This is a manufactured scandal.

seawulf575's avatar

What I find funny is that I asked this question with the sole purpose of finding out various viewpoints. To all of you that feel I was setting you up somehow, you are wrong. But being a self-aware kinda guy, I understand where it comes from.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 Haha, can I paint a scarlet S on your forehead wulfie? lol

Soubresaut's avatar

I’m sad that Trump seems to be so petty and narrow-minded that he thinks this is yet another battle to “win” or “conquer” at the expense of others. If he could widen his viewpoint even a tiny fraction, he would be able to see that his donating to charity is actually a win for everyone (yes, even him). (But then again, I genuinely doubt he believes in true win-win scenarios—everything’s zero-sum, and if he’s not ahead of his “opponent” then he’s behind).

The fact that he’s now trying to backpedal with technicalities just shows how insincere and ill-spirited his original “challenge” was. When he said, to paraphrase, ”[if Warren has Native American ancestry] I’ll donate to charity,” what he really meant was, “then pigs will fly.” That he seems to equate those two statements says a lot about his character—as does his desire to appear generous without actually ever having to be generous. (And/or it might tell us he’s not as wealthy as he wants us to believe).

stanleybmanly's avatar

A scarlet “R” is more apt to raise the wulf’s hackles.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@stanleybmanly I know him too well for that R, just like he knows me too well to put that on me. LOL

flutherother's avatar

@seawulf575 The reason for asking a question is usually to find out various viewpoints. What I find funny is that you seem to find it novel. Why do you usually ask questions? Maybe we should paint a scarlet “T” on your forehead.

SaganRitual's avatar

@JLeslie I’ve discovered that the best way to get a message across is to put myself in the mind of my target audience, in this case, the people making a big deal out of Warren’s ancestry. Those people don’t care about the facts you mention; for them, facts are a distraction.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother typically when I ask a question I am looking for viewpoints or answers or some other information. But I won’t say that is necessarily usual on this site. At least when politics is involved. Oftentimes it seems questions are asked with the sole purpose of sparking a frenzy of Trump hate for example. But my response was to all those that, early on in this thread, were sure I was just looking to start an argument.

LadyMarissa's avatar

I see NO need for her to apologize for being told ALL her life that she had American Indian in her bloodline. Turns out that she does; so, WHY should she apologize??? It’s NOT like she claimed to be full-blooded American Indian!!! I would think that we ALL have MORE important things to worry about than what percentage of Indian heritage is in her make up!!!

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
LostInParadise's avatar

@seawulf575 , You are being disingenuous in your statement of the purpose of your question. You said that everyone has Native American inheritance. That is simply not true. I challenge you to provide a link. Your statement certainly indicates that you think that an apology is required without backing up your opinion. I have no problem with the question, but at least be honest about what you are doing.

josie's avatar

Apologize to whom?
I think people who make themselves look foolish ought to just sit there and look foolish.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t have any Native American ancestry in me. The closest I come to it is from Eastern Europe.

rebbel's avatar

The Netherlands are not Eastern European ~

Dutchess_III's avatar

I didn’t show anything from the Netherlands, which I really don’t understand. Let me go track down what it showed me.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Having too much trouble posting a picture. It shows:
84% Great Britain
13% Europe West
Scandinavia 2%
Europe East <1%
Have you ever seen anything so boring.
Wait. I guess Western Europe would = the Netherlands.
I was honestly expecting some Indonesian to pop up.
Anyway, no Native American. :(

rebbel's avatar

@Dutchess_III I’m glad you didn’t put the Netherlands in Scandinavia :-)
And yeah, your Dutch blood most probably is to be found in those 13%

Dutchess_III's avatar

We have something from somewhere running through our veins. Mom was absolutely beautiful, but growing up they called her Jap Eyes.
My sister was asked all of her life if she’s Native American, and HER daughter has modeled as Native American, which she isn’t.

seawulf575's avatar

@LostInParadise one correction…I didn’t say that everyone had Native American blood in them. I said she didn’t have more than most people. Slight, but significant, difference.
@LostInParadise and @MrGrimm888 I’m okay with your views of me. But one thought…if my purpose behind my question wasn’t what I said it was, how come I haven’t been chiming in? I’m sitting back and watching.

Dutchess_III's avatar

How did this whole Warren thing get started, anyway?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 You don’t have to justify your questions to anyone, or explain yourself. It’s a Q & A site and you asked a question. This is not rocket science.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thanks @KNOWITALL. The whole thing is silly! Shoot. My husband has Native American DNA on his Mom’s side.

Also, @seawulf575, It would be pretty rare to find someone outside of North American that carries Native American DNA, unless they, or a fairly recent ancestor, moved from here. You should have said, “No more than most people in the US.”

seawulf575's avatar

I’ll give you that…it probably would have been more accurate.

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JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL I hadn’t realized it was Harvard that first tried to use her as proof they had diversity at the university in a Boston Blind article. Lol. That’s ridiculous. Then later Brown seized on it I guess? I just skimmed your article. I had thought Brown had “dug it up” somehow.

Response moderated
MrGrimm888's avatar

Apologies. I don’t recall anything I wrote as being a personal attack. As I am not the judge of such things, I will assume that I am mistaken. Never one to go against the rules, I will leave the thread.
Again, please accept my apologies (all jellies.)

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Guess I missed it, too, but looks like one was mine…lol Oh’s well.

seawulf575's avatar

Huh. I didn’t realize Fluther was so militant. I don’t know If I saw the moderated posts or not. Oh well. Sorry to all.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 Either we have a new moderator, or a user is flagging. Lots more lately.

I think I’ve got it twice now and I’m not cussing or anything like half the users here. Weird. And I’m not sorry. haha

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