General Question

Yellowdog's avatar

Can Joe Biden run on today's robust economy and employment statistics as being a product of the Obama / Biden administration?

Asked by Yellowdog (7137points) 1 week ago

It wasn’t too long ago when there were people who credited today’s economy to the Obama years. Finally, during the midterm campaigns, Obama himself started crediting the robust economy, business and employment stats to being his work . So, why can’t Joe Biden do the same in 2020?

Biden could even say that the reason the economy is so good is because of eight whole years of the Obama / Biden policies.

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44 Answers

Zaku's avatar

Yes, he could. He could do whatever he wants.

But if you mean, would that tend to fly, I imagine yes, with the people who would be inclined to vote for him, and not, with the people who would not tend to vote for him.

I expect that he probably would tend to say that, and that the Republicans will balk and say everything good is because of them and everything bad is because of the Democrats and/or illegal immigrants and gay and poor people.

seawulf575's avatar

He can and probably will try that. The problem with that tactic is that there is too much proof against it. For 8 years Obama did nothing good for the economy and it showed. Median incomes dropped, middle class faded into lower class, full time jobs were replaced with part time jobs, etc. and there was nothing done by the Obama administration to correct that course. Growth in this country was flat-lined. So for that to be a useful stance in a presidential election and for it to gather more than those voters that would only vote for a Democrat no matter what, Biden would need to be able to point to something specific and show how it made things better. But let’s be honest, he could say the economy was better because he had sex with a goat and the liberals would still vote for him, raving about his honesty and open-mindedness.

JLeslie's avatar

Maybe with the Democrats in the primaries. After that, I’m not so sure. There are voters who voted for Obama, and then voted for Trump, that voted might be influenced depending on their current financial situation.

Is that group of voters doing better now financially? Most of my friends doing well under Trump have quite a bit of money. Quite a few of my friends have been laid off, and are having trouble getting a job, my husband is having trouble getting a job after closing our business. I don’t blame Trump for the job situation in my circumstance, but if I were in a dire financial situation, maybe I would be looking for a change even if I had been a Trump supporter.

If Biden represented a time when I was working it might sound attractive, but keep in mind Obama in many people’s minds represents a bad time in the economy, even if it’s not accurate or fair. Many people believe Obama did the TARP.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 That’s a pile and you know it! Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. On the day of his inauguration the world teetered on the brink of global economic collapse. By the end of his first term he had steered the country into recovery and he left office with the stock market 3000 points ahead of where he found it. The present dummy inherited OBAMA’s recovery, and that’s the truth!

Yellowdog's avatar

Perhaps Joe Biden should point out today’s employment statistics, economic recovery, strong economy and high GDP —a few quotes from FORBES, etc—saying that eight years of Obama/Biden is why it’s so high.

He could say that the present dummy inherited Obama’s economic recovery, and that HE (Biden) was the man behind the scenes that made it happen. It just had slightly delayed results.

stanleybmanly's avatar

That’s the sort of vapid tale we’re accustomed to receiving from the fool. Biden has better sense than to pass off that truly Trumplike tripe on anyone who can read and write.

Yellowdog's avatar

Then we should take AGAIN that vapid tale from him. If “Biden has better sense than to pass off that truly Trumplike tripe on anyone who can read and write” then why does he do it?

I just thought that since Obama has already said this, Biden could say that he was part of the “team” that made it happen.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly You make my point perfectly…thank you. You just spouted all sorts of stuff that you will claim is because of Obama. But here’s the challenge: show me what he actually did to change the economy. By your reasoning, Trump is riding the Obama wave of the economy because we all know that a sitting president has no impact on the economy right away, but rather benefits from his predecessor’s actions. So by that reasoning, unless Obama actually did SOMETHING to boost the economy, that growth in his first term was due to Bush II. Now with Trump, I CAN point to things he has done to boost the economy…actions he has taken that had reactions that were beneficial to the economy.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I can do some pointing as well. Let’s start with the 25% tariffs on all Chinese imports. That amounts to an effective sales tax on consumers of a whopping 25%. His trade war with China cripples the farming sector. He flat out lied (what else is new) to those earning a living in the coal industry. Those jobs are never coming back. The fool’s vaunted tax cuts amount to nothing more than the largest handout to the rich in the history of the country. He has systematically devoted himself to wrecking the environment through gutting conservation and pollution laws. Had Obama been comatose for 8 years, it would have been a blessing compared with the strife and havoc the fool has inflicted on our poor country, and Trump only promises to continue the wrecking operation defining his miserable life. But forget about all of that and concentrate on this. My loathing of Trump is not based on any political ideology. It is rather about the fact that he is a man without honor—the sort of man your parents and mine warned us against, and the sort of man you wouldn’t allow in a room with your children. A man with no moral compass and the integrity of a snake.

seawulf575's avatar

“Had Obama been comatose for 8 years, it would have been a blessing compared with the strife and havoc the fool has inflicted on our poor country” That is about the truest part of your statement. If Obama had been comatose, it would have been a blessing and the fool (Obama) wouldn’t have been able to inflict so much strife and havoc on our nation. Good call.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Hold on a second. I think it was some other dummy who insisted a minute ago that Obama did nothing for 8 years. Which is it? Was he awake and dangerous or asleep and ineffective? And by the way, judging strictly on their reputations, which of the 2 gentlemen would YOU judge more likely to have sex with a goat?

seawulf575's avatar

Obama was active in doing things that hurt the economy. Had he been asleep, he would have been less damaging. But it was you that claimed the economy we are seeing now is all due to Obama, so I challenged you…tell me one thing he did to help the economy that would lead to today’s prosperity. So far you have dodged that question. You really do make yourself look bad when you purposely dodge things like that. It makes your initial statements sound like whining and hot air. So what is it? Did Obama do nothing good for the economy as I suggest or did he actually do something and if so…what?

Yellowdog's avatar

I think, therefore, that Joe Biden, if he gets the nomination,, should laud today’s high economic stats and bountiful economy as being HIS work. Trump supporters may credit Trump and Obama may get credit, but he (Biden) is the man behind the scenes who actually created today’s flourishing economy.

Zaku's avatar

At this point, just being part of something not clearly awful and corrupt, is a strong platform. Biden doesn’t need to come anywhere close to claiming he was the secret mastermind of anything. He just needs to avoid being hated.

Sadly for him, he’s hated by everyone who buys into the ideas he’s been inappropriate to young girls. And he’s not liked by people who pay attention to the corporate-driven not-so-different-from-Republicans-on-most-issues-ness of most Democrats.

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stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 I haven’t dodged anything. For the fifth timeWHY oh WHY did the Russians work so hard to install the fool?

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly And THAT question is exactly where your entire arguments fall down. You seem to think the Russians worked hard to get Trump elected. I have stated in numerous threads that the efforts of the Russians (the social media ads…I’m still not convinced of the DNC hacking), had little to no impact and were a weak effort at best. If you want to say the DNC hacking was their work, they you are saying that the release of emails a couple months before the election somehow swayed millions and millions of voters into voting for Trump. I don’t buy it. The last POTUS election was a very simple exercise…did you want more of the same or did you want to take a chance with something different. Hillary lost that exercise.
Meanwhile, you STILL have dodged the question even though you started off by saying you haven’t dodged anything. Tell me what Obama did…specifically…that caused the boost in the economy. You even had to change the entire topic of discussion to dodge it this last time, let’s see what you do this time.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Obama pulled the country back from the economic brink. He rescued the apparently doomed U.S auto industry, passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment act to pull the country from recession, signed the Dodd-Frank act into law, passed the ACA insuring some 20 million additional Americans, passed an 80 billion dollar GI tuition assistance bill and brought an end to the war in Iraq. In his first term alone, he cut unemployment levels in half. Enough? Now before you accuse me again of dodging things, you who wouldn’t know a Dodge from a Lada should notice how nimbly you avoid addressing the issues of the fool’s moral and ethical shortcomings, his dazzling intellectual deficiencies, and his fawning coziness with your criminal masters on the Moskva.

Yellowdog's avatar

@seawulf575 What did Obama do to boost the economy? Well, for one thing, we had 1 percent GPA growth—that’s GOOD for Obama and certainly better than nothing. It took a lot of effort and the econony was improving in his final months in office, after the 2016 election.

When we consider Trump’s 3.2+ GPA growth, we have to consider that Trump is better with economic strategies and should have done better than this.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly You listed several things that were indeed done by Obama, but not with the effect you fully believe. The QE1, 2, and 3 were all done by Obama. The result is that his cronies got rich and nothing was done for the actual middle class or lower class. It was billions of dollars that ended up lining the pockets of the already rich. They didn’t have any real effect on the overall economy of the country other than to put us further in debt..
The US Auto industry was interesting. He (Obama) violated the law to give preferential treatment to the unions over other investors when the auto industry was bailed out. More cronyism. The ACA hurt businesses and individual alike, costing much, much more than he was willing to admit. Businesses cut full time jobs or got rid of positions to avoid having to pay for health insurance. Incidentally, he violated the Constitution when he deferred the business aspects of this law. But he knew he had to because the ACA would have drove this country into a depression if he didn’t. But the ACA didn’t help the economy at all. As for the GI bill and the end of the Iraq war, not sure of the impact on the economy. It seems like you are just throwing out crap he did and hope some of it actually makes your point. Might want to try a little harder. Maybe if you actually explained how you see that these things helped the economy…?

seawulf575's avatar

@Yellowdog I appreciate your view of the minuscule growth under Obama, but in the end, it still doesn’t answer the question of what Obama did to even get the 1% growth. Looking at the charts of our economic history, Obama’s time in office looks pretty flat line.

Yellowdog's avatar

Well, Obama HIMSELF got rich, @seawulf575 and that helped the economy if he spent any of his extra $$$

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 Do you think I haven’t noticed that you refuse to answer my question as to why fuzzy bear and the rest of you Kremlin animals want the the fool for President of the United States? Since you claim full cognizance of the Mueller report, you must certainly recognize that the single thing Mueller established beyond equivocation was the intense LONG TERM and sustained effort of you folks to park Trump’s wide ass in the Presidency. I’ve finally decided that you and the dog cannot possibly be as thick as you appear here trying to claim our butt naked emperor splendidly clothed. Whatever they’re paying you, I’ll shut up for a cut.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly I did answer your question. But here’s the kicker…your question was a complete dodge in the first place. It isn’t even on topic with this thread. You threw it out as an attack on Trump with the hopes you wouldn’t actually have to respond to what Obama did to help the economy. But if you like, I will sum up my previous answer in small words so you can grasp it a little easier. Your question starts with your own hate-filled view of things that you try to treat as fact. I don’t believe that Russia put forth a lot of effort to interfere in our election. I certainly don’t believe they were working to get Trump elected. Trump has even imposed more sanctions against Russia since taking office. That isn’t the sort of behavior you would expect out of a lackey you put into position which is what your view seems to be. You can’t even see how deluded that sounds, which is sad.
So there you have it…I can’t explain your delusion to you, so I can only tell you where I think it is delusion. You should know by now that I don’t avoid challenges. And I have met yours twice now, but you are desperately trying to avoid having to support Obama who has nothing to support so you keep asking your warped question again and again.

stanleybmanly's avatar

So the answer is that Mueller and the entire intelligence apparatus is making the Russia thing up or exaggerating the Russian involvement in order to slander Trump? I should have known that your answer is “it didn’t happen”. Have you noticed that your explanation for the way the world works coincides precisely with that of our friends in the Kremlin?

seawulf575's avatar

Your reading comprehension is slipping. You asked why Russia went to such great efforts to interfere in our election and why they want Trump as POTUS. My answer is that they didn’t go to any really great efforts and that there is really no sign that they wanted Trump. There is certainly proof that Trump didn’t work with them and hasn’t shown them any great favor since taking office. You take your own warped opinions, consider them facts, and then base your questions on them. Maybe you should drop that emotion from your thinking for a bit.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Say what you will. I just think it’s rather striking how closely your own skewed narrative on events just happens to mirror that of Vladimir & his boys. And you know full well that my reading comprehension in THIS language (slipping or not) is not only superior to your own, but astute enough to notice that YOU have a peculiar problem with idioms common to that language; problems impossible to reconcile with your cover story of simple retired AMERICAN submariner. But your insistence on such nonsense as there being little evidence of Russian desire to ensconce Trump in the Presidency or mere Russian nuisance involvement in the 2016 election betrays you for what you are, and that is a brass mouthpiece for straight up DISINFORMATION. I often accuse you of shameful ignorance, but it is now more than apparent that you are here to play on American ignorance—an embarrassing yet bountiful
commodity in these times. I would wish you luck in your “mission”, but it’s such a tasteless and degrading endeavor that I hope you find “honest” work soon. You folks are reputed to have poetic souls. This is not soul nurturing work.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Oh and speaking of dodging and deflection, you STILL have not answered my question. Instead of telling us why, you come back with “They really didn’t try hard” or “they didn’t want Trump. You realize of course that from here on out I will bludgeon you with this as the news unfolds on your bear’s alliance with our snake.

seawulf575's avatar

Amazing. Now you are turning me into a conspiracy theory! That makes me laugh. You have made my night.

As to your question, I have answered it now…twice. And you have avoided actually addressing the portion of my answers that really applies. The fact that your question makes the assumption that your views are the truth. I don’t agree. You start with the idea that Russia put forth a great deal of effort and that they wanted Trump in office and that Trump worked with them to win the election…you know..all the fake news that’s fit to print from your liberal pundits.
I don’t agree with the premise to your question and that is the answer to your question. I have fully explained my reasoning for not agreeing with your premise.
So either your reading comprehension is deplorable or your are purposely avoiding having to deal with the idea that your premise might be wrong. Or you are just a complete idiot. I’m leaning towards the middle option since that seems to be SOP for all liberals in this country.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I like it that you’re at the heart of my conspiracy theory, but Russian tool is the only explanation for you that makes any sense. Your talent for occasionally sprinkling in a fact or 2 to season the bullshit is a dead giveaway. But for someone as adept as yourself at looking stuff up to now impale your facade on 2 such obvious and deliberate lies is baffling. You accomplish what I would believe impossible of anyone immersed in this society. You actually underestimate the intelligence of we Americans. Even Fox knows better by now than to claim Russia uninterested in the coronation of the fool. This is an issue that in the months to come is going to be hammered into even our dimmest of dimwits. And you, comrade by insisting otherwise render yourself as naked as the fool you pretend to adore. Good luck with that!

seawulf575's avatar

And you on the left say it is the right that are the conspiracy theorists! You had to stretch to avoid my answer to your question. You had to ignore it twice and now you still haven’t acknowledged it. Amazing.

stanleybmanly's avatar

It isn’t an answer. I ask you why what even YOU can hear on FOX—the Russians strove since at least 2012 to push Trump toward the Presidency, slander the hell out of Hillary (just like you) and sew dissension through a campaign of flagrant disinformation (you again). And you answer “it didn’t happen” and they “didn’t want him”. The trouble with a plant such as yourself, is that there are subtle and sometimes blatant reveals and contradictions that bear no other plausible explanations. I would list some of them for you, but that might render the task of those in the business of ferreting you out a bit more complex. Let’s say that you just don’t know enough about this civilization to match your skills with the language. You’re trying hard to learn, but the slip ups are there, and as you notice I’m inviting all here to watch for them. Too bad there aren’t more of us here following this thread. But keep on talking. The rest will catch on.

stanleybmanly's avatar

So I have to ask myself why is it so important that you deny 2 facts that are now accepted as common knowledge? It’s a major mistake. You’ve handed me a club with which in the coming months I shall beat you without mercy. You would have been MUCH better off had you given me an honest answer to the question than insisting on the deliberate destruction of your credibility through once again denying facts that will be repeatedly blared from even right wing mouthpieces. I shouldn’t have to tutor you, but you cannot pretend to NOT be Putin’s mouthpiece through perfect repetition of his every line. But enough coaching from me for now. What other nonsense have you for us?

seawulf575's avatar

You even have to stretch to keep your conspiracy theory alive. You are priceless! Read it again, son. I didn’t say Russia didn’t do some stuff, but I said they didn’t put forth a lot of effort. Let’s face it, a nation as big and powerful as Russia could do so much more than take out some ads on social media if they really wanted to influence the election. Your statement is that they went to a great deal of effort and you want me to accept that premise for the rest of your foolish question to make any sense at all. I don’t accept it. They really didn’t put forth that much effort. You just can’t accept that the entire fact Hillary lost is because she ran a crappy campaign. As I said, this past POTUS election wasn’t about who the better option was, it was about what you felt was good for the country….more of the same crap Obama had been shoveling or something else. Polls showed that a large majority of Americans felt the country was on the wrong path under Obama, so it really is a no-brainer that Hillary lost. And the appeal of Trump was not that he was a great candidate, it was that he wasn’t a career politician and he had no problem standing up to the career politicians and the media.
Since your warped reality can’t accept these concepts, you go so far as to create conspiracy theories like that I am a Russian plant. So let me ask…if I were a Russian plant, why would I waste my time on places like Fluther?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Forget all the pointless blather beyond “they didn’t put forth a lot of effort” and simply ANSWER THE QUESTION— why put forth any effort at all? Why did they give you your job? Answer your own question. My guess is that there are probably a few of you on every internet forum in the free world. How’m I doin? Do the rest of them have animal names like you, yellowdog and fuzzybear?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Here. Let me help you out. One reason the Russians put you here is because it is a relatively cheap but apparently effective strategem, and you’re here as proof. Russia? Big indeed, but powerful? They’ve got the nukes but since the kleptocracy (guaranteeing your employment) the place has been looted by your boss and his buddies to the extent that it is left with an economy smaller than Italy or California. Look around that room you’re working in. Most of those folks would defect and hightail it over here in a heartbeat to snitch you and your bosses out. Come to think of it, have you bothered to inquire on the whereabouts of those “missing” from the room?

stanleybmanly's avatar

And little effort or not, WHY do the Russians share your identical enthusiasm for the FOOL? I’m not going to stop asking until you provide an answer or admit to refusing to provide an answer. Let’s ask the question (again) of the whole community.

seawulf575's avatar

You are amazing. You just can’t accept that what Russia did was really nothing. It just escapes you. You have to believe that I am some sort of Russian plant to make your fantasy seem viable. You do need psychological help.
As for me, I look around the room I am in and see a room in my home that I own outright, with members of my family around and a dog asking to go for a walk occasionally. Yeah, I’m a high powered plant. Do you really listen to yourself? You are insane.
Carry on. You are way out there and much further than I care to try reeling you in from. I can only imagine that you have alienated yourself from everyone in your life, getting to where you are now. I do pity you.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Yes. Poor pitiful me. Now back to the question which you still haven’t answered, the question only you and the Russians find insignificant. WHY?

seawulf575's avatar

You don’t like the answer that the premise of your question is weak. You expect me to give it credence. I don’t. It would be like this type of question: Given the common knowledge that there was no Russian collusion with the Trump campaign, and that most people agree that Russia really didn’t influence our election at all, why do the Dems go so crazy over it?
That question, just like yours, starts with a premise that may or may not be true. I try to make it seem more realistic by saying it is “common knowledge” and that “most people agree”. Note that I made no attempt to justify my premise, I just presented it in a way that if you disagree I can say you are a fool. But you may not agree. That is exactly what your question was. I answered it as succinctly as possible…your premise of bullshit. Not to mention, this entire question started as a dodge to keep you from actually having the discussion of what Obama actually did to create the boosted economy we are seeing now. In fact, the first mention you had of the Russians was this:

“I haven’t dodged anything. For the fifth time WHY oh WHY did the Russians work so hard to install the fool?”

It wasn’t the fifth time you mentioned the Russians, it was the first. And it was in the middle of a discussion about Obama’s economic foibles. Yeah, I call that a dodge. And you tried to make it seem like you had been going on for a long time about it. You are a fool. Reality is right there…anyone can go back and scroll through to find the truth. You double, triple, and quadruple down on your dodge by creating a false narrative and then pushing it. And all this so you don’t have to admit Obama damaged the economy. Your question is a dodge, based on a false premise and present with a lie. And you want me to take you seriously? Then, to try pushing it even further, you created a conspiracy theory in which Russia plants moles in Fluther to try disrupting our nation. Get a grip.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Now back to the facts. I have asked you this question (as you well know) several times outside this thread, and you have YET to answer it. I did not dodge your silly question on what Obama did for the country. I IGNORED it for its sheer inanity. Dodging it would have resembled your employment of “I don’t agree with the validity of the question”. THAT is open dodging of the SINGULAR UNDISPUTED conclusion of Mueller’s investigation. You asked me twice to list a positive thing Obama did for the country, and I obliged you simply to dismiss so stupid an assertion. But it was your accusation of ME dodging issues that reminded me of just how slippery you are with facts. So here is a fact you STILL haven’t answered the question. You STILL tow the Kremlin line. If it’s that difficult for you, imagine that my fairy tale of Russians seeking to enthrone the fool to be true and ANSWER THE FKN QUESTION!

stanleybmanly's avatar

And as for my conspiracy theory, perhaps instead of my instigating discussion of the possibility of Russian plants on fluther, you might beat me to the punch by posing the question here before I do. That should be an entertaining thread!

seawulf575's avatar

Wow. You can’t even acknowledge the reality we can both go back and review. You are pitiful I never asked you for things Obama did that were good for the country, I asked you what he specifically did that would account for the boost in the economy we are seeing. You have dodged that entirely. By your own admission now, you changed the challenge from what Obama did to boost the economy to what did Obama do that was good for the country. And even your answer to that were sketchy as I already addressed. The fact your reading comprehension is in the toilet doesn’t make reality change.
As for the Mueller report and the SINGULAR UNDISPUTED conclusion, that would be that Trump had nothing to do with Russia in their efforts to interfere in the election. That is the SINGULAR UNDISPUTED conclusion. Of course, that doesn’t fit your narrative either so I’m sure you are trying to dispute it.
Your question is idiotic. I have tried to be polite about it but I can’t answer the fucking question because it is a fucking question that goes off bullshit assumptions from a totally idiotic opinion driven by a delusional view of reality. You have shown you have no grasp of reality whatsoever. You have even taken to creating a conspiracy theory to try making it so you don’t have to deal with facts. You seriously need psychiatric help. Your Trump Dementia is interfering with your ability to acknowledge reality.

Patty_Melt's avatar

The Russians didn’t hack our voting system.
It was Dale the Whale.

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