Social Question

JLeslie's avatar

If armed protestors show up in front of the Michigan Capitol building will Republicans say there is no reason to be concerned?

Asked by JLeslie (62838points) 1 month ago from iPhone

After January 6th, can Republicans get away with trying to pass off this bullshit rhetoric? I think some of them really believe it’s true that Republicans are never violent and Democrats are.

I remember when people protested in front of the Michigan Capitol building regarding covid restrictions, they had huge fire arms across their chests and tried to tell people no one should be afraid of those protestors. I hesitate to just call them protestors with visible killing machines on their body. If a man comes to my door uninvited dressed like that he is not just s visitor, he is terrorizing me and threatening my life.

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28 Answers

KNOWITALL's avatar

Peaceful protest is a protected right, but since BLM/riots it’s been a slippery slope on both sides.

Can they say armed protesters are dangerous, yes, and they are. Regardless of the issue or party.

Forever_Free's avatar

There is a reason to be concerned at any protest. This has not changed. This is not a Red or Blue opinion but reality.
The level of what people will go to however has changed. We all are concerned now going out in public at large gatherings like concert, sporting events, protests, kids going to school, or just going down the street. Does it stop me from doing these things and living my life? Hell NO.
If people can’t admit things have changed and there is no reason to be concerned then their head is in the sand.

zenvelo's avatar

Armed protesters, even with assault rifles, are given a pass in Michigan provided they are on the white conservative side of an issue, even if they threaten to kill the Governor.

Unarmed Black Lives Matter protesters, Flint Michigan water protesters, or any people of color are not permitted at the Michigan Capital and may be beaten or shot.

JLeslie's avatar

Generalizations below:

I think Democrats have been against arms at any rallies.

It’s only Republicans trying to say it’s their right to carry arms and bringing them to protests and at the SAME TIME trying to argue they aren’t going to hurt anyone and playing stupid like they don’t understand why anyone is scared.

gorillapaws's avatar

It’s really quite simple: An armed protestor is a patriot if he’s white but a terrorist if he’s brown. Using this filter, it’s easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys…

ragingloli's avatar

Of course not.
Remember, they, NRA included, went all in on Gun Control, when the Black Panthers started arming themselves in the 60s. Rules for thee, not for me, is their creed.

Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

The Bloods and Crips and business ass usual. Oh excuse me, I meant the Repubs and Dems

Response moderated (Writing Standards)
seawulf575's avatar

This question assumes it is just Republicans that support armed marches. How many times have the Black Panthers marched, armed to the teeth, chanting about offing pigs only to have Democrats ignore it, laugh it off, or even support it?

https://archive.bluelivesmatter.blue/armed-milwaukee-black-panthers-march/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AShXEwzhV0Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEIsreNjN1E

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-louisville-idUSKCN24R025

And let’s not forget BLM protests where the “peaceful protesters” came armed:

https://nypost.com/2021/05/04/louisville-diner-pulls-gun-on-blm-protesters-video-shows/

And let’s not forget the hypocrisy of the reporting. One of the guys Rittenhouse shot had a gun. He brought it to the protest and pointed it at Rittenhouse and so was shot. But Rittenhouse was the bad guy because he had that evil AR-15. Well folks, look at many of the pictures and videos I just posted and you will see plenty of AR-15s. Yet no one talks about how they shouldn’t be carrying those, that by carrying those they are urging violence, etc. Hell there isn’t even arguments that they shouldn’t be having armed protests at all. Excuses are made. It is the old double standard alive and well.

But hey, it’s only Republicans that support armed conflicts, especially after J6 which, by the way, none of the protesters brought guns.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 No, my question is about the reaction of Republicans and Democrats to people bringing guns to protests.

I don’t know any Democrats saying they are ok with guns brought to protests whether the protest is for something they support or not. I’m sure we could find one or two fringe Democrats that think it’s ok, but as a group, we want gunless protesting. On the other hand I know a lot of Republicans, who say, “it’s their right” or “Republicans are never violent” or some other ridiculousness.

I realize some Democrats are in denial about some of the rioting that has happened that took advantage of BLM protests and other protests, but if you ask the Democrats, do you think it’s ok to bring guns, especially if it is ok to bring big fire arms hanging around their shoulder for all to see, their answers is almost unanimously no. A lot of Republicans don’t say no.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie “I don’t know any Democrats saying they are ok with guns brought to protests whether the protest is for something they support or not.” The point is not that they are saying it’s okay…it’s that they don’t say anything at all when it is something they support. Shoot, look at the guy that was arrested outside Kavanaugh’s house. Armed, tools to break in…an obvious assassination attempt. Yet none of the Dems denounce it. Biden has not even come out to call for a cessation of activities like that. It’s crickets. And this guy did this after Chuck Schumer called for violence against the SCOTUS: “I want to tell you, Gorsuch, I want to tell you, Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind, and you will pay the price. You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions,”. Lori Lightfoot said in a tweet, and I quote: “To my friends in the LGBTQ+ community—the Supreme Court is coming for us next. This moment has to be a call to arms,” and she followed it up with “We will not surrender our rights without a fight—a fight to victory!” These are calls for violence well in excess of ANYTHING Trump said on Jan 6th. Well in excess. These are calls for violence against the Conservative Justices of the SCOTUS. These are calls for insurrection. Yet there is silence from the left. In fact Nancy Pelosi even refuses to bring legislation to the floor for increasing the security surrounding the SCOTUS even after the idiot was arrested. Merrick Garland refuses to bring any charges against any of these folks even though the case for insurrection and conspiracy is air tight.

When the Black Panthers were doing an armed protest calling for violence against cops the Democrats were silent or were saying it was a peaceful protest. Imagine if a bunch of Trump supporters did ANY of the things I have cited…any of the videos. Do you think the media or the Democrats would have been silent? If Republican congressmen and Senators said the exact same things Lightfoot or Schumer said about something a Democrat/leftist had done, would the reaction be the same crickets? The answer to that one we already know. They would push for criminal charges. As I mentioned, Trump said a whole lot less and they have been after him for 2.5 year.

ragingloli's avatar

Clearly that was “legitimate political discourse”.

LuckyGuy's avatar

Black Panthers ended up in prison for their activity. Many for decades.

Hopefully there will be similar consequences for the participants of the Jan 6 insurrection.

seawulf575's avatar

@LuckyGuy Yep, they ended up in prison for their activity. When you murder police officers. And that wasn’t all they were doing back in the 60’s and 70’s. Which supports my statements even more. Here you have a group that has a history of horrible violence, armed to the teeth and marching while chanting about killing all cops and all whites. And it’s crickets from the left. I believe the viewpoint is that if we don’t talk about it, it didn’t happen, isn’t a threat, and we can continue the narrative against the right.

zenvelo's avatar

@seawulf575 I don’t think the FBI, various police departments, all branches of the Democratic led Congress and courts and general public opposition, including most major media outlets speaking out against the Black Panthers was “crickets”. But that was over fifty years ago.

In the meantime, you and your cronies on the Right use actions by the Black Panthers do defend themselves as justification for treasonous actions by the Proud Boys.

seawulf575's avatar

@zenvelo The links I showed were recent. I had one from 2011, one from 2015, one from 2016 and the rest were from 2020 and 2021. Trying to play it off as old news shows exactly how crickets it really is to you on the left. And you have it wrong about justifying anything. The original question was about armed protests and how the Republicans are violent. It even mentioned pictures of the protesters with visible killing machines on their bodies. I pointed out the hypocrisy of the question. I’ve pointed out how the Democrats and their propagandist media partners are silent about the exact same thing they are accusing the Republicans of. It isn’t about justification…it is about equality. And the Democrats are showing they aren’t the ones for equality. You just said it yourself…if anyone dares to point out the exact same actions by the left, they are trying to justify actions the left finds offensive in others. It is a convoluted effort to keep the crickets chirping.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 I didn’t say Republicans are violent. That makes it sound like I think most Republicans are violent, I don’t think that. I think Republicans when directly asked if they are aware White Supremacists like Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are part of Trump’s base and that they think Jews still need to be exterminated, they are racist, they carry guns, and will use violence, the Republicans deflect and talk about riots during BLM.

When Democrats were speaking out about the protestors with guns in Michigan PLENTY of Trump supporters I know said, “they are never violent” and said other things to indicate they thought it was ludicrous that anyone is afraid just because the angry men were out there with guns. That those men weren’t trying to be intimidating. That’s all naive bullshit!! These alt-right people have at least half of the Republican Party bamboozled.

As far as the rioting done during the time of the BLM protests, I do think sometimes there was quite a bit of silence, but when asking a Democrat directly about the rioting in Chicago or Portland, I find either Democrats really don’t know or understand how bad it was, or they are like me and say the rioting wasn’t ok, or they thing the Republican doing the asking is conflating the protestors with the rioters and they are trying to make sure the Republican is separating the two different groups.

I want to see where you can quote any BLM supporter or Democrat saying an armed person at a protest was deemed a “peaceful protestor.”

The Black Panthers were dealt with in the past, and their current activities aren’t violent as far as I know. If so that should be dealt with.

WhyNow's avatar

@JLeslie How about ’mostly peaceful’ by the media? I seem to remember some
commentator facing the camera while wall of flames raged behind him and saying
’mostly peaceful .’ You say don’t believe your lying eyes.

How about the mostly peaceful protesters who cemented shut a police precinct and
tried to burn it down, while it was occupied. Don’t believe your lying eyes.

How about two NYC lawyers, members of the bar, mostly peaceful who threw a Molotov
cocktail into a police van while the police were still inside! That one did not ignite.
But they lit up an empty police car and distributed gas and empty bottles etc.
They were mostly peaceful so don’t believe your lying eyes.

On and on and on it goes. Peaceful protesters terrorizing diners… The police killed.

JLeslie's avatar

@WhyNow They were mostly peaceful. MILLIONS of people came out around the US to protest for BLM.

Some criminals and vandals used the protests to create their own chaos. I personally was in favor of curfews for protesting and other measures to try to prevent looting and vandalism.

I would never call someone peaceful who is terrorizing businesses, or walking around with huge guns, or breaking windows, or setting fires. Some of the rioting was done by Proud Boys and other WS groups, but some also were simply looters and destructive, no question. Over 100 people have been convicted for crimes during the BLM protests.

Just curious, have you watched footage of the violence that happened on Jan 6? Or, do you only watch the clips of people walking in the rotunda (which is not peaceful either, because they had to break in to get in there and they were part of a mob overwhelming police. Do you agree Jan 6th was violent and trying to stop the certification of the vote? Have you been watching the hearing without commentary from a bunch of talking heads on TV. Footage of white Supremacists groups planning the attack. Do you think the gun carrying protestors at the Michigan capital during covid was ok?

January 6th I think there have been over 500 arrests if I remember correctly. I don’t know how many convictions. That’s at that one event. You are talking about months of BLM protests where some opportunists took advantage. Jan 6 had a goal of intimidation and combat.

JLeslie's avatar

@WhyNow Here is a Wikipedia about arrests and violence during BLM. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests# The aunt of one of my best friends could not leave her apartment in Chicago for days because of the riots there. The Mayor in Portland said the rioting is too much and has to stop. Civil Rights leaders said the looting and criminal activity hurts the cause.

Can we move on from that now and talk about Republicans thinking guns at a protest are ok? That’s what the Q is about. Do you think it’s ok?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Now you are sounding like me when I talk about J6. It was mostly peaceful. Hundreds of thousands showed up to protest. Some criminals and vandals used the protest to create their own chaos. Yet that is called an insurrection. When the left does it to federal courthouses and police precincts, it is left as “mostly peaceful”.

And you make my point perfectly with your previous post. ”... when asking a Democrat directly about the rioting in Chicago or Portland, I find either Democrats really don’t know or understand how bad it was, or they are like me and say the rioting wasn’t ok, or they thing the Republican doing the asking is conflating the protestors with the rioters and they are trying to make sure the Republican is separating the two different groups.” They don’t know or understand how bad it was. How could they not know? And where was the outrage from the Dem politicians? The CHOP or CHAZ (whichever you like to call it) took over an entire section of the city including government buildings. They overthrew the government in this area. The Mayor of Seattle called this incredibly peaceful and praised the insurrectionists. When things degraded to the point that they incredibly peaceful protesters shot to teenaged boys that dared to drive to close to the barriers, she finally decided she had to ask them to leave.

You say over 100 people have been convicted of crimes during BLM protests. That is probably true. And I’ll say it is also amazing since many times the DAs refused to press charges. Yet the “peaceful protests” for BLM did FAR more damage than J6. And the Dems have spent about 10x more than the damage cost to try building a case against Trump. 700+ protesters were arrested on J6. Most for some version of trespassing. There was no arson, no buildings were destroyed, no one was killed..all things that happened at BLM protests…and some of those arrested were held, without bail or even a speedy trial, for misdemeanor charges. Compare that with Democrats like Kamala Harris setting up programs to bail out BLM rioters. As far as I know NONE of the BLM/Antifa thugs that were arrested were held without bail.

Did J6 get out of control? Sure. Were there some that were trying to use force to get into the Capitol building? Yup. But again…not as many as were inside. We know from video evidence that on one side of the building there was some force being used. On the other side, the police were holding the doors open and waving the protesters in. Then they turned around and arrested those they let in. That is exactly why the one protester was acquitted of his charges. The state had no case to claim violence or even trespassing when the cops let him in and then were walking around inside with him.

Until you can admit to the gross double standard being played out by politicians and the media, you are going to be part of the problem. Look at every single case of protests that devolved into violence and ask yourself if they were treated the same. If Trump supporters did the things done in Kenosha Wisconsin…the $50M (which is about 30x more than J6) in damage, the assaults and the destruction of livelihoods…would the media have called them “mainly peaceful protests” while the destruction and violence was playing out behind the commentator? This isn’t an exercise to try clearing violence on J6…it’s an exercise to try opening your eyes to the extent of the skew you are fed every day by the leftist media. I know..the right does it too…Yeah, I’ve heard that deflection. But I apply the same challenge to left and right media.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Now, are you going to say showing up to a protest with guns and other weapons is ok? That’s what the Q is about.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie What I have said is that it seems to be okay when Democrat groups do it and not when Republican groups do it. So let me ask you the exact same question because your answer earlier shows you feel the exact same way. “The Black Panthers were dealt with in the past, and their current activities aren’t violent as far as I know. If so that should be dealt with.” So it’s okay for them to protest, armed to the teeth with those evil AR-15s that have no rational purpose for law abiding gun owners, chanting about killing police and white people. After all, they haven’t really shown violence, right? We ought to wait until they do to deal with them. Well, the same could be said about the Michigan protests. Those people haven’t displayed any violence…we should just wait until they do before we deal with them.

JLeslie's avatar

^^No answer from you AGAIN. I said specifically I am not ok with guns and rifles at a protest. More than one Democrat on this Q said Black Panther violence was not ok and was dealt with by authorities.

You won’t say it. You won’t say it’s terrible that these gun toting Trump supporters come to protests with guns, so I guess obviously you are ok with it. You prove my point.

You are comparing Democrats being unaware or trying to play down the violence that happened during the BLM protests to an opinion about whether bringing huge firearms to protests is intimidating and terrorizing. Two different topics you are trying to make analogous, but they aren’t.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I have heard many on this Q say the Black Panthers got punished for their actions in the 60’s and 70’s. Not a single one has condemned their armed marches of current time. Not. A. Single. One. You included. You actually said we had to wait for them to do violence before we do something about their armed protests, even though they were calling for killing cops and white people. So your claim that you have specifically said you are not okay with guns and rifles at a protest is false. You are not okay if it is someone on the right having guns at a protest. You deflect when it is someone on the left. You cannot even say that most of the BLM protests that devolved into riots were not peaceful. You want to try to downplay it as only some, but will not apply that same logic when it is someone on the right.

I am applying your own beliefs to all protests. If you care to actually come out and say the Black Panthers are a violent group that should be denied the right to protest with guns, I’ll gladly tell you I’m good with no guns at protests. Until then, you are setting the standard for what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to protests.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Bullshit. I never said we couldn’t do anything until the panthers were actually violent, but even so, that was probably the law. I am asking your OPINION about bringing guns to a protest. You won’t say your opinion. My opinion is it is terrorizing. I don’t care who is doing it. Let’s see if you can write one single sentence saying you think bringing big guns and rifles out in the open to a protest is unacceptable. You can’t, you obviously think it’s ok.

seawulf575's avatar

^^Bullshit. “The Black Panthers were dealt with in the past, and their current activities aren’t violent as far as I know. If so that should be dealt with.” Those are your words. This is after I posted videos and news reports of Black Panthers protesting, armed to the teeth, and calling for killing cops and whites. You are trying to deny it now, but read your own words. Their current activities aren’t violent as far as I know. They are carrying guns to their protests. They are calling for murders. Yet that doesn’t bother you. Why? Well you answer that as well If so that should be dealt with. In other words, they actually have to do violence before you have a problem with it. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Your own opinion of armed protests tells me what you truly think…that it is okay providing it isn’t someone on the right doing it. How can I say that? Because your question is about right wing protesters being armed. Because when you talk about THAT, you talk about it being terrorizing. It’s okay when it is the Black Panthers, not when it is a right wing group.

I told you when you could admit the Black Panthers did wrong per your own standards, I would gladly tell you that armed protests would be wrong. You are dodging. You have said armed protests are terrorizing but you haven’t said one word about the Black Panthers doing it…other than to excuse them and to say we need to wait until they do violence.

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