General Question

RayaHope's avatar

Why is it that I hear about so many crimes being done by far right-leaning, radically religious white men in America?

Asked by RayaHope (5675points) 1 week ago

Why do they hate the rest of us so much? What did we do to make them so angry? Why are they hurting and killing innocent people and trying to change our government and laws? This violence is far out of hand and needs to stop.

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77 Answers

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

The answer is very complex.

It started with a few white evangelical preachers in the 1970s who made a conscious decision to align themselves with the Republican party. By the 90s, the Republicans were fully infiltrated by the religious Right. In between, Reagan started a movement to roll back the 20th century progressive reforms commonly called the welfare state. Republicans worked very hard ever since to undo the social progress of the 20th century.

The result was a vastly redistributed wealth in the US. Wealth was taken from the middle and lower classes and eaten up by a very small amount of people at the top.

This left the middle and lower classes in despair. White people began to feel that what had been promised to them – the American Dream – was impossible to attain. They became despondent over their powerlessness.

It is a psychological fact that when people feel powerless, they will often become violent.

When you mix that violence with easy access to guns, the result is what we all live in now.

These men feel powerless, and they want to reject that feeling by doing something powerful. Violence helps them feel like they have power.

RayaHope's avatar

@Hawaii_Jake But White men in this country already seem to have all the power and influence and I can’t see what more they could possibly want than to destroy all of us that are different just because we are different. How can our small weaker populace be of any threat to them? They already control nearly everything.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@RayaHope The white men with the real power aren’t the ones going on killing sprees. It’s the men at the bottom who are doing the killing. They feel powerless.

kritiper's avatar

Religious hypocrites are the worst.

snowberry's avatar

Because that’s what’s being reported. There are a lot of other crimes that go unreported, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. It just means it doesn’t make the news.

HP's avatar

I truly suspect the rise of the whackball right is the primary gauge on the dumbing down of America. It might simply be the price we pay for the era of leaded gasoline. The stuff is still burned in piston engined planes.

JLeslie's avatar

I’m no expert, but this is how I see it.

Because guns are encouraged in their social circles. Also, the stress level is ramped up in the country. Pressures at work and at home.

Many of them are suicidal and men have more of a tendency to turn that outward (homicide) than women. They are likely feeling helpless and desperate.

I agree with HJ about the financial squeeze on the middle class being part of it. If you studied the Great Depression you know some men who lost their fortunes killed themselves. I was working in behavioral health in 2007–2010 when a lot of people lost their jobs and homes and the amount of depressed people checking in went way up. Financial stress is one of the worst types of stress. For men, their identity and self worth is often wrapped up in their work and ability to earn and support themselves and their family.

If they are part of an extremist group they are being told the country is being ruined by minorities or by the government. Every so often a stray person decides to take it into their own hands to do something about it with irrational violence.

I believe some group leaders are encouraging their followers to commit violent acts. I think some of it is trolling by foreign governments, some is domestic terrorist groups and hate groups. Even in our very public media we hear political leaders saying people should “fight” or “fire” while they shoot their rifles.

They listen to very different media than you.

Years ago I saw a show about how the NeoNazis recruit. They prey on men who feel powerless and have very low self esteem. Being part of that group (gang) helps them feel powerful.

I just saw this recent shooting at a Walmart was done by the store manager, I have no idea what race or ethnicity he was. I can’t help but wonder if he was overworked. Retail workers are abused or at minimum overworked and exhausted this time of year.

cookieman's avatar

I agree with everything @Hawaii_Jake said in his initial post. I would inject (between paragraph 4 and 5) that the inability to achieve “the American Dream” and the subsequent dissolution of it has then been roundly blamed on immigrants stealing your* jobs or gobbling up your* taxes via welfare or bitchy feminists stealing your* power or uppity blacks changing your* culture or Arabs and Jews and atheists warring against your* religion or LGBTQ+ people perverting your* traditional marriage and family — and so on.

This finger pointing of the “other” by the evangelical white guys in power distracts from the fact that they are the ones who created the problem and gives the angry, powerless, disenfranchised white guys a target to focus their rage on.

your* referring to said angry, powerless, disenfranchised white guys.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Because they and their families own guns and their religion says its OK to kill people who think differently.

Smashley's avatar

That’s a confirmation bias in full force. You are seeing what you expect to see based on your preconceptions. Very few spree killers exhibit the three characteristics you describe, whiteness, religiosity, and right wing ideology. Below is a list of the deadliest mass shooting events in the US. The demographics run the gamut, but the trends point towards fetal alcohol syndrome and mental illness, rather than any specific group.

As far as violence being used as a political tool.. well those are still mostly in the threat stages right now. Violence is not (currently) seen as a legitimate tactic for political change. It happens here and there, perpetrated by losers who end up in prison or dead, but the more you characterize these events as the tactics of your political opponents, the more you legitimize the general use of violence to achieve your own political ends.

Vegas: white, not religious
Orlando: not white, Muslim
Virginia Tech: not white, not religious
Sandy Hook: white, religion unknown, motive apparently not religious.
Sutherland Springs: white, not apparently religious
Killeen: white, not apparently religious
El Paso: white, not religious, only on list specifically tied to American right wing extremism
Uvalde: white, not religious
Parkland: white, not religious
San Bernardino: not white, follower of radical Islam.
Ft Hood: not white, follower of radical Islam
Binghamton: not white, not apparently religious
Columbine: white, not religious

HP's avatar

I’m serious about the lead business, because it is well established that exposure to the stuff is responsible for both cognitive slippage and enhanced tendencies toward rage and impaired judgement. . I think it would be useful to test perpetrators of senseless crimes for the lead load in their bloodstreams. It is already acknowledged that the loads in the population overall are significantly higher than levels prior to the introduction of lead in gasoline. The oil companies of course resisted the allegations, and attempted to shift the alarming elevations of lead in people to lingering effects from previously banned lead paints. But lead aside, the aspects of these incidents which are clearly undeniable are that they are on the rise with that trend accelerating. Regardless of your views on gun control, it’s once again that business of cognitive slippage which might allow you to suppose that things will improve in the midst of a gun glut.

SnipSnip's avatar

You must be hearing about the same one over and over.

HP's avatar

what same one? Dial up you tube. Search “the man who accidentally killed the most people in history”

cheebdragon's avatar

@HP “accidentally”…..meaning it’s completely irrelevant to the question.

jca2's avatar

There’s a war on Christmas.
They’re grooming our kids.
They’re gonna take our guns.
They’re shoving that gay shit down the kids’ throats.
They’re killing babies. Heck, now they’re doing abortions after the baby is born.
Nobody is going to take my guns. They’re going to have to kill me before they get my guns.
The Muslims are taking over.
Biden is letting the migrants in by the millions.
The migrants are being put up in luxury hotels in Manhattan. I can’t afford that.
The migrantts are coming here and getting free rent and food and medical.

The list goes on and on. Social media helps the divide. Watch “The Social Dilemma” on Netflix. It’s a documentary about social media and how it makes things worse.

seawulf575's avatar

What @snowberry said. The media builds up anything by the right and downplays anything by the left. That is why you hear about so many crimes. Perfect example is J6 vs BLM/Antifa riots. J6 was mainly peaceful with some trespassing and vandalism. BLM/Antifa riots (multiples) included vandalism and arson of federal buildings and other buildings, assaults, etc. The media goes 24/7 calling J6 an “armed insurrection” yet calls the multiple riots “Mainly peaceful”. They even reported that standing in front of a building that was burning due to arson with people throwing things. It’s all a matter of how you tell the story.

Not that right wing nut jobs don’t commit crimes, but the reporting makes it seem that is all that goes on.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

J6 (as you call it) was an attempt to overthrow the US Government, it was not a hug fest !

It is “no big deal” overthrowing the Government and put “Bone-spus“t in forever. SMDH

HP's avatar

So the perceived uptick in shootings is an illusion manufactured by the leftwing press? There is no increase in mass shootings?

HP's avatar

@cheebdragon Watch it then decide.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Of course there are more mass shootings.

Anyone who denies that is wilfully denying reality. “Blame the media for news you don’t like” is a tried and not-very-true of deflecting the truth.

It’s not just current (2022) conservatives that blame the media. It goes back to the Vietnam war (and probably earlier) when the newspapers (no internet back then) were blamed for the US losing that war.

If someone says “the media is not telling the truth”: look for someone who has something to gain by denying reality.

HP's avatar

Exactly. The blunt answer to this question is that you’re hearing about it more frequently because IT IS HAPPENING MORE FREQUENTLY. How many mass shootings have there been since the last violent incident associated with a BLM demonstration? Which do you suppose we will encounter next, an outbreak of violence at a peaceful protest or another mass shooting?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

600 plus mass shooting so far this year ! !

HP's avatar

And who here believes the media responsible?

RayaHope's avatar

^^ I believe the media is at least partly responsible. Seems like every news cast is biased in one way or the other.

smudges's avatar

^^You have to have people out there listening and reading who believe it. Otherwise, they can lie all they want but won’t have an impact. Many of these crazy beliefs are passed down from generation to generation.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

@RayaHope But White men in this country already seem to have all the power and influence

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression (to the small- and selfish-minded).

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

J6 was mainly peaceful with some trespassing and vandalism.

This guy actually believes that. Astounding.

Good illustration of our biggest problem. Resentful white conservatives get all their news from propaganda outlets like Fox & Newsmax & OAN (or from Facebook pages which repeat Fox & Newsmax & OAN disinformation).

As I have written many times, about 27% of the electorate are irredeemable far-right true believers, impervious to reason. They have no legitimate concerns. They’re jihadists.

The only hope for our future is educating the huge number of non-voters and getting them to join the forces of good.

HP's avatar

It puzzles me that people hear troubling news, then determine the media responsible. These things ARE happening. They should NOT be accepted as routine, though increasing frequency dictates they WILL become just humdrum events. The asinine idea that such news is concocted by leftist journalists is proof positive of cognitive shortfall on the part of the right. After all, WHAT IS BEING REPORTED THAT ISN’T TRUE?????. The position itself is just plain STUPID. It is tantamount to saying I DON’T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT. It confirms every suspicion you could ever hold that a substantial pile if our fellow citizens are just plain honest to God DUMBER THAN SHIT. Tell me please, where is the spin in these gun spree newscasts? WHAT is being exaggerated? What dummy actually believes fair reporting is only possible if they themselves get to choose what is and isn’t news? Is mass murder news or not?

seawulf575's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay Go back and look at the videos and then compare J6 with any of the “Mainly peaceful” riots done by BLM/Antifa. Tell me which is closer to “mainly peaceful”. But be honest, if you can. Even look at the dollar values of damage done. It is estimated that $1.5M was done on J6. It is estimated that “fiery but mostly peaceful” protest in Kenosha topped $50M. But how did the media portray both? I know facts are uncomfortable and they dispute the designated narrative, but after all it is that narrative I am talking about and how skewed it really is.

seawulf575's avatar

Want another example of the media bias? Okay, let’s take two other similar incidents to compare/contrast. Charlottesville VA had a moron run his car into a crowd, killing one person. This moron was a Neo-Nazi. We heard about that on all the main “news” outlets for a solid week. It went on to be a topic of discussion as the media tried tying it to Trump. But then compare/contrast that with Waukesha WI where another moron drives his car into a parade killing 6 and injuring 62 people that included grannies, children, men, and women. Big news! for 2 days. Once it came out it was a black guy (which doesn’t fit the narrative) it fell off the radar. Nothing really about his motives or his politics, though he had indications of being a black nationalist/supremacist. The only time you heard anything more about this was when this fool did stupid stuff like firing his attorney and representing himself. So one white guy drives into a crowd, killing 1 and it is huge news for a long time. One black guy drives into a crowd killing 6 and injuring 62 (including young children) and it is big until they find out who the perpetrator was and then it is dropped.

JLeslie's avatar

BLM protests happened in hundreds of cities with millions of people for months and months with regularity. The people who took advantage and rioted and looted is a minuscule percent and there were arrests and over 100 convictions.

J6 was several thousand people on one day and I think the count is over 600 people arrested. There were HOURS of rioting including vandalism and violence.

If you’re just comparing ratio of how violent J6 is to BLM there is no comparison; hands down J6 wins. If you compare them in terms of destruction to our government and risk of putting the United States of America into a constitutional crisis, J6 wins hands down.

The only way someone thinks J6 wasn’t very threatening nor violent is if they are watching edited clip that only show that. Plus, I know a lot of people think things like, oh, those people were just walking through the halls; or, oh, those men weren’t going to hurt anyone they were just rifling through the congressmen’s paperwork. That’s bullshit. Everyone in that crowd made it harder for police to control the crowd and created more fear for the police there.

If your kid was with friends and his friends started to break through a fence and break the windows of a house, would you tell him to stay or to walk away and call you to come pick him up?

jca2's avatar

@JLeslie In my opinion, it doesn’t even pay to have that debate (BLM vs. J6). People who (mistakenly) believe that January 6th was benevolent and not harmful and not worse than BLM riots are not going to have their minds changed. It doesn’t pay to go down that rabbit hole, especially on a holiday.

RayaHope's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay Who said: “J6 was mainly peaceful with some trespassing and vandalism”
Don’t they remember that a guard was KILLED?! How the heck is THAT peaceful?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Now dig deeper and see what the people were arrested for. MOST of the J6 protesters were arrested for some version of trespassing. Let’s go back to look at just the Kenosha riot so we can minimize the damage to the left. 175 people were arrested. 69 of them were just for curfew violations…curfews that were put in place due to all the other riots that had been going on. But many of even those 69 had additional charges ranging from burglary to weapons violations to controlled substance possession. More than 20 guns were seized as well. And with all that, the only thing the media could focus on was a 16 year old kid that was attacked by the protesters and killed two of them defending himself. Not the violence of the protest, not the property damage, not the other crimes going on, not the gang assault on an old guy trying to protect a historic building…only someone trying to help protect things FROM the protesters.

As for watching the edited clips of J6, that pretty much highlights the left wing media reporting. I saw some violent conflict between protesters (not the vast majority of them) that is true. However I also saw Capitol police letting protesters into the Capitol building. I saw them walking calmly with them inside. I saw a whole lot of things that were later blown out of proportion. I saw no arson. I saw no protesters just jumping on helpless civilians and beating them silly. I saw none of that. In fact the media has even tried painting the entire thing over the months to make it a bloody conflict. 6 police officers lost their lives they say. What they fail to mention is that one died that day due to a heart attack and others died by suicide as much as 6 months later. But hey, don’t discount that. The only person actually murdered that day was Ashlii Babitt and her murderer was never arrested, removed from duty or anything.

seawulf575's avatar

@RayaHope How can I not remember the guard that was killed? I cannot remember it because it never happened. A guard died from a heart attack and he had pre-existing conditions that led to that. How can those that believe this was such a bloody conflict discount that the only person killed was an unarmed protester by a cop? I guess because it was a white woman killed by a black cop so it is meaningless.

seawulf575's avatar

@RayaHope But your response shows exactly how biased and deceptive the media coverage was. Look up Robert Cobb in Kenosha. He is the elderly guy that was beaten for protecting a business from the “peaceful protesters”. You can find some of the story here. But here’s a challenge. Show me the coverage from CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, WaPo, NYT, or any of the other “reputable” news outlets that cover this horrific act.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 The courts will take care of it. I’m not going to bother posting video of the events on the day of J6th. I’ve done it before and you have amnesia. I’ve seen the clips of “calm people just walking through the halls and police letting them cross a barrier.”

You choose to ignore the hours of violence and the ratio of violent people in the crowd and their intent to stop the certification of the vote and that supposed protesters chose to stay in the crowd when they witnessed the massive amount of violence. They certainly could have stayed back on the lawn where protests are supposed to happen if they simply were there to protest. If people want to claim they meant no harm then they used really shitty judgment that might wind them up in jail. You don’t hang out with thieves and murderers and not get deemed an accessory.

There is video and testimony on the plan and intent by WS groups to stop Pence, and even Pence has written a book talking about Trump’s willingness to always grab power any way he can, and if someone passes on the opportunity they are foolish. Trump believed Pence could stop the certification of the vote that day and pressured Pence to to not sign and Trump aided in pushing the message to his supporters that stopping Pence was what needed to be done.

Let’s say riots that happened during BLM and J6 are equal, why are you excusing J6? Why are you blind to what happened there? Why do you think those rioters shouldn’t be prosecuted? There were thousands there that day, the majority of whom are walking free. It’s only several hundred that have been arrested, I don’t know the count as of now for how many have been convicted. Are you saying you don’t trust the justice system to evaluate the evidence? They convicted rioters during BLM, you don’t trust those convictions were worthy of jail time?

HP's avatar

But this bias thing simply does not hold water. And the proof is that there simply is no leftist counterpart to massed shootings. This is why the topic must be switched from coverage of shootings to BLM. Where are the leftists shooting up NRA meetings and Klan rallies? How many proud boys are terrorized and brutally murdered by leftist zealots? Why are there no leftist assaults on that openly repugnant Marjorie Taylor Green? Where are the leftist mobs insisting on the lynching of Trump? Or perhaps all of these things are happening and the leftist media just refuses to report them. But then again, if that is the case, Fox must be in on it with them. Does that sound right to you? No indeed. It is an intellectually vapid stupid argument, an empty defense to claim the media is the problem. And anyone who falls for it is worthy of the ridicule heaped on the argument itself.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

WTAF ” One black guy drives into a crowd killing 6 and injuring 62 (including young children) and it is big until they find out who the perpetrator was and then it is dropped.”

A Wisconsin man is convicted of killing 6 with an SUV in a Christmas parade.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Let’s not say that BLM and J6 are equal. I’ve already shown that by just about every measure, the BLM/Antifa riots were FAR worse. And I’m not excusing J6. Out of curiosity, why are you excusing the BLM/Antifa riots? That answer does play into my point. What I AM saying is that it wasn’t anywhere as bad as the media painted it and that the media does this again and again. It is the answer to why you hear about so many crimes by white Christian guys. The media does not report on crimes that don’t fit the narrative in the same way they do for crimes they want to use to push an agenda. I’ve given example after example and yet none of you seem to be able to admit it is true.

seawulf575's avatar

@HP except there are those sort of crimes and the media suppresses them. Let me bring out the guy that was going to break into Kavenaugh’s house to torture/kill him. It was done in response to all the hateful rhetoric Biden and the Dems spewed forth about the SCOTUS. So let’s compare that to what Trump said on J6. He said they were going to peacefully march to the Capitol to make their voices heard. What the media and the Dems tried to say is that he used some sort of weird secret code to urge violence, thus inciting a riot. Meanwhile, Biden and the Dems said far worse about the conservative justices, even calling for violence, and the media is silent about that. It shows up as a story because the conservative outlets are pushing it, but the leftist media plays it down and stops carrying it as soon as they can.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Let’s talk about the guy that put a hammer INTO Pelosi’s husband’s head . . . He wasn’t about to break into any house; he was inside attacking someone (OH YA Pelosi is a Democrat, open season Dems)

You should run for local “max support of the Tangerine Turd” (make sure they donate only cash, harder to trace) !

Quit using Trump’s quote as justification for his vile actions against the USA . . . .

He is truly only in it for himself, the tax returns will show that !

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Pape was a leftist. And it is still questionable that he wasn’t there with Paul Pelosi. But again, you are being skewed by the “news” you get. When the cops got to the house, Paul Pelosi answered the door and told them everything was fine. He even went back into the house next to Pape. Not the behavior of someone that feared for their life from a home invader.

jca2's avatar

Do you have a link for that narrative, @seawulf575 (the version that Paul Pelosi went back into the house next to Pape, etc.)?

jca2's avatar

US Attorney’s office, DePape indictment:

I don’t fuck around when it comes to links and sources. You know I go right to the source. This way, nobody can say it’s inaccurate or biased.

HP's avatar

Again we are being deflected from “far right-leaning, radically religious white men in America” The sideshow everyday kooks can be written off as the normal detritus in a society with mental health a backwater afterthought. The only thing rendering DePape’s story a national press bonanza is the fact that the incident involves Pelosi’s husband.

But here’s what I think the GREAT BIG difference is these days. And it is the SINGLE thing the right truly despises. In the past it was a simple matter to point at the criminality and gang violence in the black and brown ghettos as the preeminent threat to this country. NO MORE. It isn’t dope fiend blacks or Hispanics laying siege to the Capitol nor shooting up suburban schools and playgrounds. This time it is EXCLUSIVELY lily white on white crime. None of those rapists, or traffickers the pig told us threatened our doom managed to participate in the 6 January VIOLENT assault on the nation’s government. And the fact that the expanding mass shooting epidemic is restricted exclusively to men, and invariably right leaning young WHITE maladjusted men is undeniable. Screw all this stupid bullshit about the media inventing this. This is CURRENT reality in America—plain and simple. AND IT IS GOING TO GET WORSE. Who disputes this?

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 What the hell are you talking about? Who am I excusing? I told you rioters, looters, vandals were arrested and convicted during the time of BLM protests, as they should be. You’re the one trying to say J6 rioters should be set free.


Related article with some conviction information.

BLM is a separate topic. Try to stick just to Jan 6. I know the Republican talking point ropes a lot of Democrats into fighting about the comparison to rioting during BLM, but I’m saying, YES, there was some rioting during BLM. Looters took advantage, some lunatics came out, there was some violence, you have nothing more to explain to me, because we agree on that, set it aside, now try to focus on Jan 6 if you can.

If you want to excuse rioters on Jan 6 that just makes no sense if you look at the evidence.

elbanditoroso's avatar

It’s not worth arguing, @JLeslie – someone here rids their one trick pony any time they can.

There is ZERO equivalnce between January 6 and BLM – from news coverage, to grievances, to political parties, to race.

The only ones who push that sort of equivalnce are those who refuse to believe in the American vision. They want to hijack the word American for their own right-wing agendas.

He’s not worth it.

JLeslie's avatar

@elbanditoroso I know it’s a waste of time. Anyone at this point who doesn’t recognize the horror of Jan 6 probably never will. I am frustrated that some Democrats fail to just acknowledge some crap shit did go down during the protests, some criminals took advantage of the protests.

Demosthenes's avatar

^Two sides of the same coin. Liberals who deny what happened with BLM/Antifa do so because they don’t think it matters. Same with conservatives who act like Jan 6th was no big deal. It’s about your agenda and your sculpted reality.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie where have I said J6 protesters should go free? What I HAVE said is that the protest on J6 was nowhere near as violent and destructive as even one BLM/Antifa riot. You are the one downplaying those riots. And the REAL point that I have repeated over and over is that the media covers these things entirely differently when it is right wing or left wing. The fact they are continually claiming J6 was an insurrection when the federal charges against protesters don’t support that is a perfect example. Yet people like you buy into that same narrative.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

More alt-right talking points !

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 Apparently you do fuck around when it comes to links and sources. Your second one doesn’t exist. But back to the question you posed and then on to some other questions for you.

That confirms the initial story reported by TODAY show reporter Miguel Almaguer. It comes from the body cam footage from the responding police.The SFPD responded to a call, they didn’t know they were going to Pelosi’s house. The knocked on the door and the door was opened by Paul Pelosi who greeted them, did NOT declare an emergency, did NOT say he was in any kind of trouble, and then walked back into the house to DePape. It also contradicts the DOJ complaint you cited.

Meanwhile Almaguer has been suspended by the TODAY show for airing the original story. No reason has been given for this. No real reason was given for pulling the original story he reported. No official retraction has even happened…not anything meaningful. This goes back to my original statement that the media reports things differently. They don’t like truth if it hurts the narrative or if it is inconvenient timing. And the DOJ is just as corrupt. Let’s look at a few tidbits from their complaint. This part of the story that they changed from what really happened should be a good starting point.

“At 2:31 a.m., San Francisco Police Department (“SFPD”) Officer Colby Wilmes
responded to the Pelosi residence, California and knocked on the front door. When the door was
opened, Pelosi and DEPAPE were both holding a hammer with one hand and DEPAPE had his
other hand holding onto Pelosi’s forearm. Pelosi greeted the officers. The officers asked them
what was going on. DEPAPE responded that everything was good. Officers then asked Pelosi
and DEPAPE to drop the hammer.”

Hhhmmm…so the police responded to the house and knocked on the door. The door was opened and the police saw Pelosi and DePape standing in the room. Who opened the door? It doesn’t say the police did, it says the door was opened in response to their knock. By their description Pelosi and Depape both were in the room with their hands occupied. So who opened the door? But let’s go on!

The police asked what was going on. If there was a violent struggle going on, they wouldn’t have to ask. Apparently there was NOT a violent struggle going on when the door was opened. And even then Pelosi did not respond. He did not call for help, he did not try to break from from DePape…nothing. For someone that supposedly called to report an intruder that was threatening him, he acted extremely non-victim-like.

This part of the DOJ account is bullshit. It is not supported by the body-cam footage and it doesn’t make sense in itself. So now the $50,000 question: why would they try to change reality that much? This all goes back into the question of why you hear so much about right wing crime and not left wing crime…because of rewrites of reality just like this.

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575: My apologies for the bad link (bad link but I intended it to be “right from the source”) . I just watched your video, the NBC Havana video, which, apparently you did not watch because in both the narrative that is typed on the screen and the verbal report from the male reporter, they say that Paul Pelosi opened the door with his left hand.

I still have not heard from any source or seen any document which contains your original statement which I was asking you to cite, which says that Paul Pelosi went back into the house to be with Mr. DePape. You make it sound like he went in to be by Mr. DePape’s side, as if they were best buds. I see nohting indicating “Paul Pelosi answered the door and told them everything was fine. He even went back into the house next to Pape. Not the behavior of someone that feared for their life from a home invader.” Two men, each with a hand gripping the hammer (each man having two hands so each man would have a hand free, as per the video, which is where, as the video states, Paul Pelosi answered the door, nothing about retreating to be by DePape’s side like his best pal.

seawulf575's avatar Here, just so you don’t have to strain, let me highlight the appropriate points:
“After answering the door, Pelosi began walking several feet toward the assailant and away from police into the foyer, according to the report. It’s unclear if Pelosi was already injured or what his mental state was, the sources told NBC News.”

“The officers saw Pelosi and the suspect, who smiled at them, and a struggle ensued as officers saw suspect David DePape strike Pelosi with a hammer, the sources told NBC News.”

Meanwhile, think about what you are saying. You are still clinging to the DOJ version, trying desperately to make it work somehow. So in your version, Pelosi opened the door, which was by all accounts several feet away, and stood there, not calling for help or trying to get to the cops. Even the DOJ account doesn’t say Pelosi and DePape were struggling when the door was opened, they were just standing there. In fact it says the cops didn’t even immediately see the hammer and when they did, they asked both Pelosi and DePape to put it down.

Does any of that make sense? And it is so far out from what the body cam footage revealed that it falls into the “made up” realm.

Do I believe DePape hit Pelosi with the hammer? Absolutely. Do I believe pretty much anything else out of this story? Nope. Not after the TODAY showed tried suppressing the story and the DOJ made up their own version of events. And those behaviors are perfect examples of why you hear so many stories about Right wing violence and not left wing…because facts to the leftist media and the corrupt DOJ are not required.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

”. . . because facts to the leftist media and the corrupt DOJ are not required.”

Fox News, Trump and other Right winger are the only sources to believe ?
Trump left office with tens of thousands of lies, untruths and misleading claims. (30,000 plus)

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie What are you blathering about now?!? The question had to do with why you hear so much about right-wing violence. I have pointed out numerous examples of where bias in the media (and the DOJ) have played into that. Trying to deflect to “Hate Trump” is really just proving my point.

raum's avatar

Mass shooters are statistically white males who live in areas where there is increasing income inequality.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Once again @seawulf575 I’m OUT !

Your right wing POV and “I’m the only one that knows the truth . . .” and the right (Trump Party) is the only party to follow!

Demosthenes's avatar

Lol. @seawulf575 actually thinks the attack on Paul Pelosi was a gay encounter gone wrong. I knew @seawulf575 was a gullible moron, but this takes the cake.

seawulf575's avatar

@Demosthenes Where did I even hint at such a thing? I just think there is more going on. I’ve pointed out the discrepancy between the “official” story and what is coming out with the facts. They don’t jibe. But really…where did I even hint that I thought this was a gay encounter?

HP's avatar

@Demosthenes But it’s no laughing matter. Whatever the flaws in reasoning, they are on the increase just as surely as the culpable wing nuts drinking the kool aid. Say what you will, we should be grateful that these views are laid before us in spite of the ridicule rained deservedly upon them. As preposterous as they are, their persistence here reminds us they’re too dangerous to be ignored.

But here’s the refutation on the allegation that media coverage is biased with the comparison of January 6 and BLM disruptions as proof. With this one, the fatal flaw is in the assumption that the events are somehow equivalent and worthy of equal emphasis. In other words, the unprecedented mob assault on the seat of government is no more significant than any another protest ending in violence. THIS is what I mean about the dumbing down of the country.

HP's avatar

@raum Of course income disparity is at the bottom of most of this and in particular the rise of extremists, both right and left. IT ALWAYS IS. The wealth inequality issue is without question what is actually going on here. The tragic joke to all of this is that both the angry white men and BLM are pissed about the same thing. The great distinction this time is with the proliferation of guns and their unprecedented availability.

raum's avatar

I’m pretty sure that the angry white men and BLM are not pissed about the same thing.

HP's avatar

They are indeed. They BOTH complain about EXACTLY the same thing. They both suffer the illusion that somehow the reasons are different. THEY ARE NOT. The difference is that the white middle class now sings its own version of “Nobody Knows”, and their song is every bit as poignant but a damned sight more violent than their black counterparts ever managed. It isn’t the winners who stormed the capitol nor rioted at BLM protests.

HP's avatar

@raum If you want some hints regarding the truth, consider the complaints here from our advocate for the right. Suddenly the FBI and DOJ are the corrupt organs utilized toward enforcing the status quo. But just which group has complained bitterly (and correctly) that these entities backed and enabled police departments nationwide in their brutal suppression and exploitation of said group?

HP's avatar

It does not occur to our friend that neither of those granite solid institutions has shifted one bit. What has shifted is that he and his bunch no longer find the status quo acceptable.

HP's avatar

And the same holds true for this nonsense about the mainstream media. Why is it the media is suddenly leftist? The media is deemed leftist simply because it is the required explanation for the rather distinct impression that the right has gone batshit crazy. You see it constantly. Trump is ok. It is simply these lies spun by the press which give the public the impression that he is a lying inept malevolent buffoon.

cheebdragon's avatar

@HP Would you consider FOX news to be a reliable & unbiased source?

Tropical_Willie's avatar


GOP propaganda machine, they lie almost as often as Tangerine TURD six to twenty times a day !

HP's avatar

@cheebdragon Compared to what? Let me put it this way. Fox is deliberately designed for people who couldn’t spell fair and balanced if their lives depended on it, let alone provide a working definition for either. In fact, the network’s constant bitching about mainstream inaccuracies and untrustworthiness works ONLY on those too dimwitted to appreciate that no outlet on earth is more mainstream than FOX news. Fox plays to the lowest. common denominator. It is the perfect match for Trump, who takes the network’s liabilities to extremes. Both are sure signs that in today’s America, dumb is in.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@HP I agree, most followers of Fox could not pass “End of Year” exams for fourth grade !

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