Social Question

JLeslie's avatar

Do you think this new commercial regarding antisemitism will have an effect?

Asked by JLeslie (65522points) March 31st, 2023 from iPhone

Good effect or bad effect?

Here’s the ad:

If you are Jewish, do you prefer attention is not drawn to the Jewish community? Or, do you think it’s good for people to understand how disproportionate religious hate crimes are against Jewish people?

I bring up the statistics here on fluther, I have for years, but I’m not sure how I feel about the ads.

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51 Answers

Acrylic's avatar

Probably not. That ad shows reason, those who hate generally do so without reason. It’s good and informative, but will likely do nothing to stop the hate against that wonderful population.

flutherother's avatar

I’m not Jewish and I don’t think these ads are a good idea. They give the impression that Jews are special and that other hate crimes are not so bad whereas they are all equally bad especially to those who have to endure them. I don’t think the blue square is a good idea either – it might give the impression that all Jews are Democrats.

JLeslie's avatar

^^I think the blue is because blue is associate with Jewish people, Israeli blue, but I understand your point that people might perceive it as blue for Democrats.

That’s interesting that you feel it gives the impression other hate crimes aren’t as bad. It’s not about that at all, it’s about the statistical risk. Plus, other people perceive Jews as white, and not minorities, and not at risk. Even other minorities tend to do that. Maybe Especially other minorities.

chyna's avatar

I don’t think it will be effective. Most people don’t even watch commercials. I know I fast forward through them.
But the people that hate aren’t going to change their minds from a simple commercial, or by seeing a few people wearing a blue square. I think the people that hate certain groups have that hatred embedded in them from years ago, perhaps handed down from their families.

JLeslie's avatar

I never thought the commercial was targeted to the haters, it’s targeted for the rest of society in my opinion. Haters are going to hate.

Maybe the people who hate will realize Jewish people are a very small number. I think they think we are huge in number trying to replace them. I doubt they are practicing any type of logic though. Even if they were told one hundred times we are only 6.5 million in the US they would forget they were told a minute later or not believe it.

Entropy's avatar

I would be shocked to find that anyone who subscribed to antisemitism would ever be persuaded by an ad like this. Has anyone who really hates black folks been persuaded by seeing ‘End Racism’ in the end zone of an NFL field? Has anyone seen one of those ‘coexist’ bumper stickers and been like “Oh…wow. Yeah. I should definitely stop hating other religions. Good point car in front of me!”

No. None of these things have ever happened. I think their main purpose in the case of ads is to show the organization is doing ‘something’ and thus to encourage more donations which pays the salaries of the employees. BLM is the same way. Rake in donations, do a few PR stunts, go home and count your earnings.

I think the only effective counter to stuff like this is to meet people. Most anti-semites have never met a Jewish person and just gotten to know them on a personal level. Or at least they don’t KNOW they’ve met a Jewish person. There was a great story about a black musician playing a bar frequented by the KKK, and he befriended a KKK guy because they bonded over their love of music. The KKK guy was just astonished that black people were nothing like the stories he’d been told. It eventually lead to him not only dropping out of the KKK, but bringing some others with him.

But that kind of ground-level activism is hard…and dangerous. Much easier to just collect cash and make videos that will only be seen by potential donors.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I’m not Jewish either but I think anything helps. Jews are 2% of the population with over 50% of racial attacks.
Personally I think showing Jewish children walking into the gas chambers with their parents and grandparents would be more powerful than all the words in this commercial. But commercials are kind of my ‘thing.

JLeslie's avatar

@Entropy Or at least they don’t KNOW they’ve met a Jewish person. I say that all the time. Not just antisemitic people, plenty of other people say the same thing if they always lived in very rural or very Christian communities.

I hadn’t thought about the money, but that makes sense.

snowberry's avatar

I think it’s a decent ad. It’s a good start. But by itself it’s not going to solve the problem.

Thanks @JLeslie

janbb's avatar

@flutherother So do you feel that the slogan “Black Lives Matter” means that other people’s lives don’t? You may not be aware of the tremendous uptick in anti-semitism in America in recent years.

I think it’s a good ad. Will it accomplish anything? I don’t know. But it’s not really aimed at haters, it’s aimed at bystanders who see things and do nothing which is most of us in all hate crimes.

@KNOWITALL The problem with posting Holocaust pictures is that it’s easy to dismiss that as that was then, decades ago; “it can’t happen here.”

kritiper's avatar

It can’t hurt.

Forever_Free's avatar

My feeling is no. I will ask some of my Jewish friends how they feel.

mazingerz88's avatar

It is effectively informative. Gives the right perspective. It should have a good effect for people who are not being willfully ignorant about the issue.

gorillapaws's avatar

Waste of money. The best way to stop antisemitism is to shine a light on it. Also, a lot of this stuff is ultimately the result of the Democratic Party becoming pro-business. As it’s abandoned it’s worker base, it’s left a vacuum for fuckheads on the right to come in and say “the reason you’re not able to achieve the American Dream is because of those people (Latinx, Jew, Black, etc.).” It’s a very old and effective playbook.

JLeslie's avatar

Not only do I think it is targeted to society at large; but also, other minorities should recognize we should stand together as minorities. Jewish people are often not seen as minorities, because of the stereotypes and because most Jewish people are white. I assume the LGBTQ also runs into this, but I have never discussed it with anyone from that community. People can be gay and white, and so I assume some people of color see it as convenient that white people can walk around in hiding. It’s really not so easy to hide though. I think it is pretty easy for someone to figure out I am Jewish, and probably gay people feel that way too, and no matter what, the reality is that if someone discovers the truth we are at risk so that is always something we are aware of. Not that I walk around in fear constantly, but I know the hatred exists out there, and it does alter my behavior in small ways.

@gorillapaws So, to you, this ad doesn’t shine a light on antisemitism?

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie Not really. It’s too much about the statistics and not enough about the (in)humanity. Furthermore, the stat mentioned, is essentially saying Jewish people receive a disproportionate amount of hate than other minority groups. The framing is essentially pitting Jewish hate victims against black hate victims, muslim hate victims, and LGBTQ hate victims, etc. Instead of banding together with natural allies in fighting all hate as one.

A better approach: Interview the daughter of a victim of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, or a kid that’s being picked on for wearing a yarmulke, or any of the millions of victims of antisemitism. Show the humanity of the victims. Alternatively, call out politicians who are supporting or involved with (legit) antisemites (hint: legit antisemites don’t endorse Bernie Sanders—the only Jewish person to ever got close to becoming president).

KNOWITALL's avatar

@gorillapaws I agree. Evoking emotion so people have empathy is Marketing 101.

jca2's avatar

Here is a link showing up to date stats on hate crimes and who is targeted.

LostInParadise's avatar

I don’t think it is right to single out Jews as being targets of discrimination. Traditionally, Jews in the U.S. have been opposed to discrimination against all minorities. I think that is a better approach, even if it is not necessarily reciprocated. There have, unfortunately, recently been cases of high profile blacks making antisemitic remarks.

gondwanalon's avatar

I didn’t know that there’s such a huge problem of hatred to Jewish people in the USA.
I don’t think that you can reason with those who are unreasonable and consumed with hate.

Nothing has stopped the various hate groups in Palestine from blowing up innocent Jews in Israel over the years.

janbb's avatar

@gondwanalon There is a big problem with anti-semitism on the rise in the USA from all of the Neo-Nazis and far right commandos. Have you not read about the temple killings, the Charleston marches, the cemetery defamations with swastikas? My nephew who wears a kipa has gotten harassed in New York City. Do not equate it with politics in Israel, however, where there is right and a lot wrong on both sides of those national issues.

flutherother's avatar

@janbb I didn’t like the “Black Lives Matter” slogan much either and for similar reasons, it is too easily countered by saying “All Lives Matter”.

I just feel that hate crimes are hate crimes and should all be treated the same, with a zero tolerance policy.

Dig_Dug's avatar

Hate crimes across the board are horrible and should not be tolerated. I don’t think this commercial will have an impact at all unfortunately.

gondwanalon's avatar

@janbb Far more wrong on the Palestinian side. Israel doesn’t sent suicide bombers to kill innocent Palestinians.

janbb's avatar

@gondwanalon Israelis recently destroyed a Palestinian village and soldiers fairly routinely kill Palestinians in the occupied territories, plus taking their lands for settlements. But this is off-topic.

Kropotkin's avatar

Hate crime against religion is one of the smallest categories of hate crimes in the US. It’s less than hate crime targeting sexual orientation, and much smaller than hate crime against race.

I looked at the historical data, and though over 50% of anti-religion hate crimes target Jews, this percentage is still much lower than it used to be. It was over 70% in the 90s. There’s no evidence of any surge in new hatred against Jews, despite the supposed rise in the far-right.

@gondwanalon Why do you reproach an oppressed and persecuted people for the manner of the resistance? And why do you tar Palestinians as violent when Israeli violence against Palestinians is a few orders of magnitude higher and more devastating?

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws You interpret just the way I find so frustrating, but I really do appreciate you writing out your thoughts.

I can’t tell you how many Black people I meet who don’t want to hear empathy for their situation from Jewish people.

Antisemitism and stereotypes of Jewish people are still fairly high in the Black community. Part of the Black community certainly does see where all minorities, including Jewish people, suffer with some of the same psychological stress and threat. Some clearly see how banding together we have more strength, but way too many Black people feel like if Jewish people talk about their experience they are trying to distract from hate against Black people. I feel like you have a similar perspective.

Jews have come out disproportionately to fight for equality for Black people in our country’s history. It feels like Black people are often ungrateful and unaware. I’m not personally trying to take credit for any of that, I haven’t done anything impressive for civil rights except vote and I think I treat people equally regardless of race, religion, etc,

I was watching MSNBC a few months ago and Rev. Sharpton talked about how some years back MLK’s wife pulled him aside and said he has to stop sounding antisemitic. I thought it was interesting he admitted that.

The advertisement I linked mentions Jews receive the majority of hate crimes based on religion, not all hate crimes. I don’t know the stats for all hate crimes per 100,000, Maybe that’s on @jca2’s link; I haven’t looked at it yet. Anyway, the ad was not comparing hate crimes statistically against Blacks or LGBTQ if I read it correctly.

I don’t see this ad as trying to say Jews get attacked more than other minority groups, I see it as saying we get attacked too, we understand, we are threatened too, because so many people overlook Jews, because we are white (most Jews). It’s also to fight back against the BS that Christians are at high risk for religious hate crimes. No they are not. Not statistically. That’s a false narrative the Christian leaders try to push.

JLeslie's avatar

Maybe someone can help me with the math per 100,000.

@jca2’s data for 2021 is:

Jewish hate crimes 817 out of 6.5 million

Black hate crimes 3,277 out of 47 million.

Asian hate crime 746 out of 22 million (not sure who they are counting as Asian).

LGBT 521 out of 23 million.

All those numbers have inaccuracies I’m sure plus or minus,

Brian1946's avatar

Anti-Jewish: 12.57 per 100K
Anti-Black: 6.97 ”
Anti-Asian: 3.4 ”
”-LGBT: 2.27 ”

JLeslie's avatar

^^Thanks. I’m sure there is underreporting and it’s not a contest. None of the hate crimes should be happening.

gondwanalon's avatar

@janbb & @Kropotkin You too are unbelievable.

kevbo1's avatar

My initial reaction was along the lines of “lies, damn lies, and statistics.” I didn’t know the exact number until I looked it up, but my first thought was that there are lots of non-religious Jews, so I looked it up. If you excluded “Jews of no religion,” then the 2.4 number would be 1.7. But from this, I also wondered whether an atheist could be the victim of a hate crime against followers of Judaism.

In Washington State, at least, a hate crime is based on the perception of the attacker (and is limited to physical violence, destruction of property, or a related threat). Presumably then, a sikh who is victimized because the attacker mistakes them for a muslim is the victim of a hate crime against muslims. This has led to a significant undercount of hate crimes that victimized sikhs in the wake of 9/11.

Then I came across this article, which articulates where I’m landing on the issue: these are not hate crimes solely against Judaism but all Jewish people, and the FBI should change the categorization. Counted as an ethnicity, the second statistic would change from 55% to 17%, but it would also demonstrate that a Jewish person in the US is more likely to experience a hate crime than an individual of any other ethnicity. (Maybe someone else can do the math to see what size the second square would be.)

To me, the stats and images part of the ad doesn’t say anything new, but the visual representation is novel, so that may draw some new attention. Many have changed their social media profiles to support all manner of causes—I have no idea of the impact of those, but probably the most significant both in terms of a singular cause and expanding the potential effectiveness of social media causes in general, is profile-based signaling of preferred pronouns by cisgendered allies to show transgender folks they are not alone anymore.

@janbb, FYI, some hate-crime perpetrators in the US do equate it with politics in Israel.

Like almost everyone, I can’t comprehend committing a hate crime against anyone.

gorillapaws's avatar

If the argument is that Jewish people are being targeted at a disproportionately high percentage then one solution would be to increase hate crimes to other groups right? It’s just a dumb message. It should be something like antisemitism hurts people: your neighbor, your wife, your friend, your coworker, etc. Hate is wrong.

JLeslie's avatar

@kevbo1 Thanks for thinking about the various statistics. I think most Jews include all Jewish people in the US, atheists, members of synagogues, theists who don’t attend any religious services, and there is a lot of crossover. That’s where my 6.5million came from. I thought we were 2.2% of the population in the US, you have 2.4%.

I like what you wrote about how hate crimes can be viewed and counted differently. On another Q a jelly asserted a hate crime can’t be against a religion, because people aren’t born a religion. I completely disagree with that statement, especially as a Jew, because antisemites see Judaism as a race. We can’t shed it. I think it’s true for all religions though.

I always question statistics too. Right now media is mostly talking in terms of how much hate crimes have increased in percentages, and not necessarily giving the numbers for how they derived the percentages. That always bothers me. Plus, they are staying it as a percentage to all hate crimes, rather than per 100,000. I think per 100,000 explains the risk better.

I would bet a lot of hate crimes done by police to Black people aren’t counted, so that would up hate crimes against Black people a little more than I have here. All groups underreport I’m sure.

Plus, as you touched on, we are just talking hate crimes on this Q, which doesn’t cover so many types of injustices that some minorities deal with more than others.

kevbo1's avatar

@JLeslie, likewise thanks for the juicy question.

Regarding crimes and injustices, it had me thinking about whether the redlining of the 70s would be considered a hate crime, but it wouldn’t because it’s not about violence or destruction of property.

The possibility of religious hate crime isn’t a matter of opinion for or against (that jelly wasn’t putting in the work). It’s a fact of the statutes.

With the police, it’s tricky because statutes about violence and destruction are often qualified by the term “unlawful”, e.g., “the unlawful assault of…” That makes counting police assaults tricky because they have to be proved unlawful or they aren’t crimes.

The video itself (and Pew) has 2.4.

Kropotkin's avatar

@gondwanalon I’m not the one who started babbling about Palestinians when they’re not even the topic of the question. Maybe if you don’t want an “unbelievable” reaction, stop showing your own anti-Palestinian prejudices.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

I think the blue is because blue is associate with Jewish people, Israeli blue,

I’m not a Jew and I can’t fully grok the identity. But I was raised to support the oppressed. And Jews have always been in my circle, as close friends and peers. I married into a Jewish family.

I don’t think of blue as being an especially Jewish emblem. To be evocative, bold, proud and defiant I would choose the yellow star of David. I am not kidding.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Regarding crimes and injustices, it had me thinking about whether the redlining of the 70s would be considered a hate crime, but it wouldn’t because it’s not about violence or destruction of property.

A couple of observations. I’m not trying to upend anyone’s claims, but correcting the record.

Red-lining African-Americans out of the mainstream home loan market was a thing long before the 1970s.

Regarding violence, my 6th grade teacher lived in Detroit as a kid. He told us about his childhood, joining a mob circa 1960, when a nearby house was sold to a Black family. They threw rocks and threatened their new neighbors, who disappeared the next day.

He told us the story to say how ashamed he was for himself and the community, and how we kids could learn from their errors.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Israel doesn’t sent suicide bombers to kill innocent Palestinians.

Correct. They send aircraft, tanks, missiles and troops to kill thousands of innocent Palestinians and Lebanese civilians.

gondwanalon's avatar

@Kropotkin Anti-semitism refers to intense hatred and prejudice against Jewish people. Suicide bombers from Palestinian terrorist groups that are targeting innocent Israel people is related to this topic.

Israel has a right to retaliate in a controlled manner which they do to target the related perpetrators.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws If the argument is that Jewish people are being targeted at a disproportionately high percentage then one solution would be to increase hate crimes to other groups right? It’s just a dumb message. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that “dumb” solution. The point is Jews are mostly overlooked and ignored as being part of the majority in the US, and stereotyped as oppressors in some circles. Most people don’t hear about all of the antisemitic things that happen and even if they do they quickly forget. They aren’t calculating how the hate incidents add up.

It should be something like antisemitism hurts people: your neighbor, your wife, your friend, your coworker, etc. Hate is wrong. Well sure, that’s a great message not to hate. I think we should be promoting that all the time in our schools and in society in general. There are more places in the country than you would think where people don’t interact with Jews, they even will say they never met someone Jewish (this was mentioned above, and more than one of us said some of these people don’t realize they know Jewish people or some of their favorite actors and singers are Jewish are part Jewish).

Anyway, teaching not to hate and All Lives Matter has always sounded good to me, but some feel that ignores the actual increased danger some groups face. I can understand both arguments.

@Call_Me_Jay The yellow star would be almost jarring, it would represent to me Jews during time of Hitler. I think the square is because we think of the TV screen in terms of square pixels and I like that it shows our percentage as one of the many.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL I found it interesting you believe going back to images of the Holocaust would be the most effective. I worry that it bypasses that hate crimes are actually happening right now present day. I guess your point is we want to make sure society never lets something like the Holocaust happen again (I agree very important not just for Jewish people, but any group) and the Holocaust images cause a very emotional response.

I worry people are getting desensitized to images of war, mass shootings, and even the Holocaust.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie “I don’t think anyone is suggesting that “dumb” solution.” Of course not, but if the problem being marketed in the ad is solved with “dumb solutions” that’s a big red flag that the issue isn’t being framed properly. Jewish people aren’t upset they’re the victims of hate at a greater rate than other religious groups, it’s that they’re the victims of hate at all, period, full-stop. Just to be clear, I don’t think the ad needs to focus on all hate broadly. It can focus on the impact of antisemitism specifically (and more importantly bring it down to the human/individual level) but to not focus on the relative levels of hate across various communities.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws I think you still fail to see my point. I understand your point.

I just wonder if the statistics showed Black people the victims of hate 2 times other groups or LGBTQ 6 times other groups if you would be saying the same thing.

When some people tried to point out All Lives Matter during BLM a lot of people were outraged. I don’t know if you were one of them. That’s what you are saying to me, All Lives Matter, all victims of hate matter. It’s all equal.

Risk assessment does matter in life. If flying in a plane was 1 in 1,000 flights crash, people would not be flying as much. Even 1 in 10,000. Isn’t that the rate of Jews being subject to a hate incident according to the statistics? 1 in 10,000.

Just to clarify again, I realize the hate crime stats don’t show all the victimization each groups goes through. I don’t think of those statistics as perfect numbers.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie I don’t think you understand. I’m NOT saying “all lives matter.” I’m saying the ad should focus on antisemitism explicitly. That’s roughly analogous to “black lives matter,” not “all lives matter.” Further I’m arguing the idea of highlighting specific human-scale examples of the impact of antisemitism.

NoMore's avatar

Why is this even an issue today?Now all of you wonderful little Christians out there sit down and take notes. Jews did not kill your Boy, ok? Now there was a prominent Jewish historian and philosopher, Philo of Alexandria, who lived in the First Century CE, and who visited Jerusalem and environs during the time of Christ. He participated with other prominent Jewish leaders on a voyage to Rome to get Pontius Pilate (any bells going off?) recalled to Rome for various offenses and slights to the people of Judea, among other things “secret and ILLEGAL trials by night”. Now he doesn’t mention Jesus by name, but does that ring any bells for you geniuses? Because it sounds to me like these leaders were not down with Pilates antics, otherwise why would they have made a long and perilous journey in that era just to put his ass in a sling? You call this HISTORY peeps, not something you saw in a god did it book you never blow the dust off of anyway. Novel idea here, do your own research and reading and stop believing shit because Billy Bob done said so. Or Pastor Pete told you so. Get a grip and get your ass out of the dark ages. And stop with the Jew bashing. It is one of my biggest peeves.. and next time we play Ding Dong Bill in here I won’t so polite. Got it? Get it? Good! And so you know I’m not Jewish. The product of a long line of Irish Catholics.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws Ok, I’ll have to go back and reread your answers. I guess I did misinterpret what you were saying.

NoMore's avatar

@gorillapaws It would be a huge help in ending this anti Jewish horse shit if people would stop buying in to the Vatican propaganda. And I’m not bashing Catholics here, I was one myself once upon a time. But lies are lies.

JLeslie's avatar

@NoMore Is that the main problem? I never focus on that, but I’m sure it doesn’t help.

NoMore's avatar

Not the main problem but it does create a lot of problems, and it’s nonsense anyway.

LostInParadise's avatar

I thought that the Vatican now opposes antisemitism. Link

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