Social Question

JLeslie's avatar

What should be Giuliani’s punishment for lying about the Georgia poll workers?

Asked by JLeslie (65332points) July 27th, 2023 from iPhone

My opinion is Rudy Guiliani and Trump put those Georgia women in harms way. I hope the women get awarded millions. Do people really not understand how scary it is to have leaders of a country encouraging gun toting fanatics to go after someone?

Giuliani wants to say he has a first amendment right to say anything he wants about the women? No he doesn’t! It’s like ordering a hit in my opinion.

What consequence would you like to see? Jail time? Millions? Community service? Any creative ideas?

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83 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

Alex Jones received a 1 billion defamation sentence for his lies about Sandy Hook. The same should happen here. Plus disbarment.

chyna's avatar

Disbarment, a huge fine to be paid directly to the two women he defamed, banned from using hair dye, banned from public appearances, and sent to a home for old fools.

Forever_Free's avatar

Disbarment and heavy fine.
He will also be relegated to work at The Four Seasons Total Landscaping

chyna's avatar

^Ha! I forgot about that. One of his best moments.

seawulf575's avatar

Nothing. Politicians and media outlets lie and defame people all the time with no punishment. Why start with this?

chyna's avatar

^Because he ruined two innocent poll workers lives who were just doing their civic duty for his own selfish reasons. He had no idea who they were. Now they have to hide and can’t hardly go to the grocery store for fear of being killed. They have multiple death threats.
But if you think that’s okay, then that is your minority opinion.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@chyna did you really think any conservative would think any different?
If a democrat had done what ole Rudy did they would be non stop foaming at the mouth, hell they would be screaming for max fines, jail time, and maybe even the death penalty,but since it was one of them well the other side lies to ,so what was the harm type thing.

jca2's avatar

This goes beyond a lie the way many (not all) politicians will lie. Outing people, personally, for doing their jobs to where they’re subject to death threats and fear is in a category by itself. I say disbar him and fine him a huge fine. At his age, disbarment isn’t the worst punishment since he is really at an age where he can retire. I can’t believe anybody (here or in real life) can possibly justify or defend this behavior, especially knowing the lunatics out there who take things literally and will kill people for less.

JLeslie's avatar

I can’t think of other politicians who have targeted citizens like this. Despicable. @ragingloli was correct with his Alex Jones analogy, although I don’t even think the people he targeted were in as much danger as these Georgia workers.

jca2's avatar

I just googled him and he’s born in 1944. Disbarment isn’t a punishment at all, because it is really time for him to retire. Time for him to get the fuck out.

JLeslie's avatar

I didn’t even think about disbarring him. He should be disbarred, but I agree it isn’t a punishment for him. The only way to punish him is to take his money and limit his freedom.

I would like for him to be scared too, prison would do that, but I am not actually obsessed with him getting jail time, I just want those women to feel safe and free again, and money is the only way for them to maybe have that. Him admitting he lied helps too, but the people who might want to hurt the women probably don’t know he admitted it and they twist why he admitted it if they do know.

Forever_Free's avatar

I vote dismemberment over disbarment.

filmfann's avatar

Disbarment
10 years in jail (at least)
10 million dollar award to Ruby and Shaye.

jca2's avatar

Giuliani and Mitch McConnell are, to me, both pieces of sh*t.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

To me @jca2 they are both evil pieces of sh*t!

JLeslie's avatar

$10m is not enough.

Zaku's avatar

Barred from practicing law.

Disbarred.

Barred from holding government office.

Shamed and called out in public.

Investigated for any relevant crimes, conspiracy, etc, and offered deals if he reveals further crimes/conspiracies/conspirators/criminals etc.

Fined for any proceeds related to frauds and crimes, plus whatever the law says is appropriate.

jca2's avatar

The article about him should read “Giuliani admits he’s an asshole.”

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna How were their lives ruined? I couldn’t begin to tell you their names, where they live, nothing. I’d be willing to bet that 99.999% of the people out there couldn’t tell you that stuff either. Yes, it is scary when you say that a bunch of gun-toting fanatics were out to get them, but really, can you tell me who those fanatics are?

Fear mongering is fear mongering, no matter who is doing it.

I don’t approve of creating stories and I have no respect for Guiliani, but really…there are far worse things done every day, some of which you defend with your last breath.

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chyna's avatar

@canidmajor I saw an interview with both women on ABC News. It’s horrible how badly these women were hurt by lies. And people like wulfie try to blow it off. Wait until something like like this happens to your mother, wife, daughter or sister wulfie. You won’t blow if off then. And you think it can’t happen to your family because they don’t do anything to warrant this type of treatment? Being a pole worker shouldn’t warrant that either.
Next it will be jurors on trumps many cases being threatened and possibly killed. I’m sure you think that’s okay too, because “hey, other people get threatened.” You sound ridiculous.

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chyna's avatar

Note: the last paragraph in my above rant was aimed @seawulf575.

janbb's avatar

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Nothing has been proven showing that the Russians didn’t collude in trying to influence the 2016 election:

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/senate-russia-report-proves-trump-was-wrong-mueller-was-right-ncna1237743

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/17/truth-about-russia-trump-2016-election/

https://www.factcheck.org/issue/russia-investigation/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate-findings-fact/factbox-key-findings-from-senate-inquiry-into-russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-election-idUSKCN25E2OY

I think you need to stop bringing up the Russian collusion issue, wulfie, or admit that you do not have all the facts. Nor do we but we’re not banging that drum.

And as for Hunter Biden, he’s a messed up jerk but his Dad loves him and is not interfering with the courts to protect him. So why the fuck does that matter?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Some people get ALL their info from Trump’s TS social media website (rhymes with BS), right wing sites and WS sites.

seawulf575's avatar

Let me give a quote from one of our fellow Jellies to me on a different question:

“When you ask people for their opinions, they are perfectly entitled to say they don’t care. That’s an opinion. When you ask people for their opinions, and they say they don’t care, and you jump up and down and say they need to care, they’re awful people for not caring, that’s asking with an agenda”

It was a question I asked and then had discussion based on the answers that came out. But apparently it wasn’t believed that those on the left do this exact thing. Yet look at this thread. I gave my opinion and have been jumped on from many on this page. Just a look at hypocrisy, nothing more.

seawulf575's avatar

@janbb Soooo….the $35M Mueller investigation that concluded that no Americans colluded with Russia or knowingly helped them try to interfere in the 2016 election and the John Durham report that concluded that there was no case until the FBI, Hillary, and the Dems created the entire Russia collusion scam, complete with falsifying FISA warrant requests…all that is meaningless because lefty news outlets say it was real? Come on….you know better. But it does show that you are willing to believe anything providing it is about Trump which is just what I said. But you are not alone. You have many just like you on these pages.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna Trump jurors? No, but I could gladly point to some other outrages from Democrats along this same vein if you like.

”“I want to tell you, Gorsuch, I want to tell you, Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price!” Schumer shouted. “You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions!”” – Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in March of 2020.

”“I think if you want to see a revolution, go ahead, outlaw Roe v. Wade and see what the response is…”” – Sen Jeanne Sheehan (D-NH) Nov 2021

And let me remind you that a lefty operative was arrested outside Justice Kavanaugh’s home with a tactical knife, a Glock 17 pistol, two magazines, ammunition, pepper spray and zip ties, a hammer, screwdriver, nail punch, crowbar, pistol light and duct tape. He traveled all the way from California with the express purpose of killing Kavanaugh. So what punishment should Sens Schumer and Sheehan face? After all, they called for violence, they didn’t just say they didn’t like the justices. And they are actual Senators, not somebody’s assistant.

Go ahead, tell me it’s different. Tell me it doesn’t matter, that it is something else….make excuses, defend the left. I’ll wait. Pretty sure I won’t have to wait long for you or one of the others that can’t face reality will do exactly that.

ragingloli's avatar

And a righty operative, who was also involved in the insurrection, was arrested outside Obama’s home with his van full of guns and ammunition.
But you support that one.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@ragingloli I bet he does and would . . . .

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli Nope. Once again you make wild claims and attribute them to me. Fools that do these things should be held accountable for their deeds. But we have a dichotomy in our nation as this question points out. When someone on the right says or does something wrong, there is great outrage from the left, the DOJ, and the media. When someone on the left does something wrong, there is only outrage from the right. And as I have pointed out, when someone on the left urges violence, the left supports them. If someone on the right does it, the outcry amounts to calls for treason. And you should know better than most, that is how fascism works. Isn’t that how the Nazis took power in your country back in the 1930’s? Control the narrative, censor speech, persecute anyone who didn’t back them? Isn’t that how it all started? And here you are, supporting that same thing again.

JLeslie's avatar

When did someone on the left in power or with a significant audience accuse a specific average citizen of screwing with an election? Even worse she is a minority, but really it would be horrible and illegal to do it to anyone.

This isn’t some politician cheating on their wife and there is moral outrage, we are talking about actually putting a specific person in danger. This is unethical and it seems to me illegal.

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jca2's avatar

In the words of the Tangerine Don, “I can stand on 5th Avenue and shoot someone and I’d still get elected.”

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie So what is the difference between threatening a political figure and an average citizen? Or even of screwing with elections? Hillary and the left accused Trump of screwing with elections. It stirred up all sorts of hate from the left. The media supported that claim endlessly. They created the Charlottesville lie so they could call Trump a racist and they all trumpeted that as well. You don’t think that carries over to average citizens? Want me to start showing the citations where some Trump supporter was physically assaulted because he had a MAGA hat on? You think that wasn’t pushed by the Dems and the media?

I go back to my original answer. The politicians and the media lie and defame people all the time, causing all sorts of hate, discontent, and violence, and nothing happens to them. Why suddenly start now? Admit it, it’s only because it involves Trump. You are incapable of being objective about this at all.

seawulf575's avatar

And since someone will say I’m making stuff up, here are a few from the first quarter of 2019 – attacks on MAGA hat wearers.

https://www.newsweek.com/criminal-acts-trump-maga-hats-1357179

jca2's avatar

That article cites 10 incidents (count ‘em, 10) of crimes against people wearing MAGA hats, from 2019 stats, but in the article, it states this: “In 2017, hate crimes in the U.S. increased 17 percent, rising for the third year in a row. Forty-nine percent of race-based incidents were “motivated by anti-Black or African American bias,” while 17.5 targeted white individuals, according to the 2017 FBI Hate Crime report. More than 58 percent of religiously motivated attacks targeted Jewish individuals, the report stated.”

No crimes against individuals are acceptable, and no hate crimes are ever acceptable, but ten incidents compared to the stats (above) that were buried in the article iis pathetic. Ten incidents is a drop in the bucket compared to the stats of crimes against blacks, whites and Jewish.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@jca2 Poor little MAGAs hats! !

jca2's avatar

@Tropical_Willie It’s ironic, because now the MAGA hat-wearers know how others feel (minorities, Jewish people, Asians, LGBTQ). It’s giving them a taste of their own medicine.

chyna's avatar

@seawulf575 What is really odd about you is that you have no empathy for these two women who were just doing their job.
You don’t know them, have never heard of them, they have nothing to do with you and your life. Probably the same for each person on this question. Yet we feel empathy for what they have gone through.
I can’t stand Mitch McConnell. I despise what he stands for. Yet when he had his episode this week, my first thought was “I hope he isn’t having a stroke. I hope he’s okay.
Empathy. Do you worry that there could be something wrong with you that you can’t work up a little compassion for others?

jca2's avatar

@chyna I just googled “what do you call someone who has no empathy” and the first thing that came up was “sociopath.”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And the fright wing going on and on about the lying left wing media if they are lying so much why are they not sued out of business?
Fox was sued and lost for the lies they told.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump sued CNN for $475 million and yesterday it was thrown out of court.

They used “The Big Lie” just like HITLER but . . . Trump is out 475 million !

No grounds.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Exactly,but they keep screaming lies all lies, guess if you scream it enough someone will believe it.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

The right with all their lies and conspiracy (psychosis caused) theories; don’t know what is real.

That is where Giuliani’s defense is in trouble; he has “no leg to stand on”, just lies ! ! !

canidmajor's avatar

I realized that I didn’t answer your Q, @JLeslie, sorry. I think Giuliani should be punished for imparting or conveying false information that endangered those two women. I think that he should be liable for reparatory and punitive damages to those women for the probability of lost wages and measures taken to remain safe. I would hope that the former would include prison time.

Any defense of Giuliano’s actions (because of the “he’s a politician so he lies” argument) is just egregious and lacks compassion and empathy, as @chyna so eloquently pointed out.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 The MAGA hat article I cited only shows 10 instances from about a month and a half in 2019. It isn’t all of 2019, nor is it all the violence that happened during that time frame. But that isn’t the point, is it? You kind of touched on it, and then tried veering away again. No crimes against individuals are ever acceptable. That is 100% true. Yet look at what you just did in your statement…tried discounting those against Trump supporters. In other words, crimes were committed against them but hey, they aren’t too many so it’s okay. You are trying to act like I have said other crimes are okay. I haven’t. But what I HAVE said and continue to say is that with all the crimes that are done because of hateful rhetoric by politicians and other public figures, nothing ever happens. The only people that ever get looked at are Trump and his associates. Yet I have shown example after example of where the left’s hateful rhetoric is obvious, causes crimes to happen, and nothing happens to those that spout it. There isn’t even a discussion. And certainly not from you folks on the left. You are all psychologically incapable of facing reality openly. It’s called Cognitive Dissonance.

My original answer still holds. Since the precedence of doing nothing has already been set, why go after Guiliani now? They hypocrisy and prejudice are to obvious to ignore.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna Now you are changing the question. The question was what punishment should Guiliani get for his false claims. Now you are asking if I can feel for the two poll workers. I can. But let’s use your Mitch McConnell example. You hate McConnell, yet you saw he had an episode the other day and you can feel the thought “I hope he’s okay”. But let’s say 2 years from now he’s all better and he’s back to work again. If you then said “I can’t stand him!” would I have an argument to say you have no empathy? After all, look what he went through several years ago! That’s just silly. If I had heard of this case when it was going on, I might have spoke out on the stuff they were going through. But now it is years later and they are doing interviews. They no longer are going through the wringer and it is over as far as they are concerned. Why should I suddenly push on the empathy button again? I didn’t know about them before, had no opinion of them before, I didn’t know them socially, and now, it is something that happened in the past and is over. Kinda hard to jump on the empathy bandwagon here.

But let me turn that around on you. I have shown several examples now where left-wing hate speech has cause problems for Conservatives. Kavanaugh and his family were in direct danger, average people get attacked because of a hat they are wearing that that hateful rhetoric (much of which you left-wing jellies repeat all the time) and you folks on the left show no empathy for any of them. In fact all you have all done is try to downplay the events, like they aren’t important. Have you no empathy? Must make you a sociopath, eh? At least according to @jca2 who is in the same boat as you.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Left wing outlets do get sued as well. Ask Nick Sandmann. He sued a number of them and got settlements with Washington Post, NBC, and CNN. He is a VERY wealthy young man. But I know you can’t actually acknowledge that as it hurts your basic belief system.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Look wulfie you get your maga hat all out of shape when you claim people say ,you said this or thought that, but have zero problem doing it to others then say they are the morons.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And as for news outlets getting sued for spewing lies, I have no problem with any news outlets paying the price if caught lying.
I think EVERYONE should be held accountable for their actions no matter who they are, unlike you who think the fright wing shouldn’t be accountable for anything.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 It is exactly the broad generalization about people that is the hateful rhetoric. You paint anyone with a MAGA hat as a moron. I’ve heard they are gun-toting extremists. I’ve heard they are racists. I’ve heard they are Nazis and Fascists. And apparently, so have all the people that feel it is okay to physically assault people like this. THAT is exactly what I am talking about.

And when it comes to holding people accountable, I’m not really the one that isn’t on board with that. You are the one that tried saying the left-wind media doesn’t lie because Fox got sued. Apparently you do have a problem holding others accountable.

My stance is always consistent. Anyone who breaks the law should be held accountable. But if one side never holds anyone accountable but wants the death sentence for anyone on the other side, that is hypocrisy. And if you want the rules that way…that certain behaviors are really okay…then it should be applied to everyone…not just anyone that agrees with the leftist narrative. And it that stance that drives you folks up the wall. You don’t seem to want fairness, you want cronyism, favoritism, 2-tiered justice and all the rest of the things that lets bad behavior on the left get not only ignored but supported and celebrated.

canidmajor's avatar

I have been going through the examples of whataboutism that @seawulf575 cites and I can’t find any that show where a person with considerable power (as Giuliani had) points to, and specifically names outright, in lies which he admits, a couple of innocent citizens, thus putting them in harm’s way. All the references that I found in his posts refer to people being angry and attacking other people for whatever spurious reasons, but none of them being named and targeted by someone of so much influence and power.

Correct me if I’m wrong, please, and point to an instance of such specificity that would prove your point, @seawulf575, like if any of the attacks you cited were against innocents that were specifically named by persons of power in the democratic administration.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-maga-republicans-semi-fascism/

https://democrats.org/news/watch-dnc-vice-chair-and-iowa-house-minority-leader-slam-maga-gop-field-ahead-of-cattle-call-with-tucker-carlson/

https://2paragraphs.com/2023/07/hillary-clinton-blames-brutal-heat-wave-on-maga-republicans-vote-them-out/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-attacks-trump-maga-republicans-threat-american-democracy/story?id=89121094

So here we have prominent Dem politicians calling “MAGA Republicans” semi-fascists, responsible for climate change, a threat to democracy, and a threat to women everywhere. And from the last citation here is an interesting statement:

“Biden on Thursday said all Americans are called by “duty and conscience to confront extremists” and to reject political violence.”

Doesn’t that sound like he is calling for people to confront MAGA people? And they did. Calling out people by name is bad. Calling out broad swatches of people is even worse since you are calling for open hostility in many places instead of just one. You increase the population of people you want to attack. And really, the left has an on-going battle against Trump…calling him out by name and often lying about him to do it. His supporters have been called “a basket of deplorables”.

You are also ignoring the hate speech from Schumer. He called out Gorsuch and Kavanaugh by name and there was violence brought against Kavanaugh. The Dems even fought against a bill after that which would have increased security for the SCOTUS justices.

Let me ask, are you trying to parse things down so you can ignore what the left and the Dems have done and try making it all about Trump? I guess it’s okay if people get hurt because of hate speech as long as the speech is from Democrats and it’s only conservatives that are hurt?

Your parsing shows exactly what I have been talking about. You cannot actually come out and admit the left is full of hateful rhetoric that has caused problems. You have to try ignoring it by saying these people weren’t called out by name. You aren’t willing to call them out, but you want everyone to call out Guiliani? You don’t want the bad apples on the left to be held accountable and be punished but you want a Trump person to be hung by his testicles.

canidmajor's avatar

No, dear, I am asking where, exactly, in your previous posts on this thread you showed examples of persons of power and influence specifically naming individual, innocent citizens in lies that put them in harm’s way from potential retribution. I’m sorry you didn’t understand my post, I thought it was pretty clear.
I recognize that your reading comprehension skills are maybe being hampered by anger and annoyance.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie I never said the maga hats were morons, I said you think everyone else is a moron.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor I pointed out Schumer and Sheehan earlier. They called out people by name. But again, you are parsing. Are you saying hateful rhetoric is okay so long as it doesn’t call out an individual?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Let me get this straight: “Look wulfie you get your maga hat all out of shape when you claim people say ,you said this or thought that, but have zero problem doing it to others then say they are the morons.” So you get upset that you believe I feel people say this or think that but have zero problem when I think someone is a moron? It has to be that I thought it because I don’t see anywhere that I called someone a moron. So you are supporting what you say I do…you claim I said something that I didn’t. You apparently knew I was thinking it too.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

As for gun toting extremists it wasn’t the democrats wearing guns to the political conventions in 2016, it wasn’t a democrat that tried shooting up a FB I office after they searched for the stolen documents at Mar a Lago, it isn’t democrats taking women’s rights away with an abortion ban, it wasn’t democrats refusing to let a 10 year old rape victim have an abortion.

canidmajor's avatar

No, @seawulf575, I am sticking to the specific question that was asked. That’s all. You are wildly extrapolating.

chyna's avatar

@seawulf575 To be empathetic or sympathetic with someone as they are going through something is one thing. But to feel empathetic 2 years later is just feeling sorry for someone and that’s ridiculous.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Sorry @canidmajor you are correct Rudy should be held accountable for whatever the law allows,and be held for whatever punitive damages they can get.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 No, it was a Democrat that shot up the Republicans at the Congressional softball game. It was campaigning to defund the police all while they are supporting rioters that are burning cities and looting stores. And let’s not forget the Democrats that threatened Kyle Rittenhouse with guns and other weapons and got shot for their trouble. It was Hillary that said: ”“You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about.”” It was Eric Holder that said ”“Michelle always says, ‘When they go low, we go high.’ No. No. When they go low, we kick them,” he said, adding, “That’s what this Democratic Party’s about. We’re proud as hell to be Democrats. We’re willing to fight for the ideals of the Democratic Party.”. It was a Democrat that drove a van into a Trump tent that was set up to help people register to vote.

Again, you are so obsessed, you cannot for one moment believe the left could do anything bad. You are strictly trying to deflect away from that idea. You don’t want to hold them accountable, you don’t even want to denounce their actions, but you want to call out justice elsewhere.

chyna's avatar

@JLeslie Your question got totally derailed and I was a part of that. I’m sorry and step back from it now as I have already answered your OP.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor No, my answer to the question was very simple. Why hold Guiliani accountable when this sort of thing goes on all the time with no consequence? If you don’t hold everyone accountable, why suddenly make this such a big deal? Apparently that is too much. I’ve backed it up with numerous examples where people on the left do something and it is over-looked or celebrated even. And you are are incapable of seeing that. It would make you question your entire belief system. You can’t even admit that hateful rhetoric is bad and should be called out and the person punished every time it is done. I am straight on the question, gave my answer, and have been piled on since then. The fact you don’t like my answer speaks volumes….that you don’t want healthy discussion.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna “To be empathetic or sympathetic with someone as they are going through something is one thing. But to feel empathetic 2 years later is just feeling sorry for someone and that’s ridiculous.” Yes, that is what I said. It was you that asked why I didn’t have any empathy for them. You asked if I felt there was something wrong with me that I couldn’t feel compassion for them. The events in question happened starting in Dec 2020. That is more than 2 years later. I said I can’t start feeling empathy this long after the event. Now you are saying 2 years later is just ridiculous to be feeling empathy. Stay on your side of the discussion.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Everyone should be accountable for their actions,no matter who they are I have said that over and over but because I don’t foam at the mouth you think,(yeah I said you think)I am giving all on the left a pass very far from the truth.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I have given many examples, verifiable examples, of people doing the same bad behavior Guiliani presented. You have not suggested once that any of those people should be punished as well. In fact you have tried to steer away from that. You have not denounced any of them. That is why I believe you give them a pass. When something new goes on, you are quick to discount reports, downplay actions, etc when it involves the left. That is why I believe you give them a pass. When it involves Trump or anyone associated with him, you are ready to believe whatever is said about them even after facts prove the claims false.

Apparently not everyone should be accountable for their actions to you…it does matter who they are. And yes, you do foam at the mouth ;-)

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 “Why hold Guiliani accountable when this sort of thing goes on all the time with no consequence? ” And your source is . . . . . . ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So wulfie saying EVERYONE should be accountable doesn’t count?
Unless I scream it from the rooftops?

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Oh good lord. Keep up man! I have given many citations and examples all throughout this thread.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Saying it now is just words. When other things happen you absolutely fall back to defending the bad behavior from the left. I have shown you the crimes from Hillary and her e-mails which are actually worse than what Trump did. Not to mention Joe Biden committed the exact same crime as Senator and then again as VP. You want to give Hillary and Joe a pass but want to criminalize Trump. I have shown where you all were crowing because Trump supposedly did a quid pro quo and should be impeached yet you all wanted to ignore Joe Biden actually bragging about doing what Trump was accused of. Your arguments at the time was that Joe isn’t POTUS and Trump is. I believe the answer was If Joe ever becomes president we can look at it. Well, here we are with piles of evidence and testimony showing Joe was actually in on a bribery scheme at the time and you are all still trying to defend it, even when the evidence is far more than there ever was for Trump. EVERY time you start going off on Trump about some alleged crime, you make excuses for the exact same crime from a Democrat.

And in many of these cases, the Democrats committed the crimes first and were given a pass…something you felt was justified. But as soon as Trump or one of his associates does something you are ready for prison time.

My stance has been consistent and continues to be so in this thread. What Guiliani did was wrong…no argument. But to start talking about punishment when so many others have done the exact same thing and been given a pass is just hypocrisy. Your stance has always been to give Democrats a pass and then, when presented with the fact you are screaming for blood from Trump for crimes others have done you suddenly say everyone should be held accountable, fully ignoring all the times you have fought against that exact thing. You cannot even actually say that the Dems have done anything wrong specifically. You can only try to deflect.

JLeslie's avatar

Copied from @occupydemocrats on facebook:

“BREAKING: A federal judge sentences a racist Kentucky Trumper to a whopping NINE years in federal prison for mailing shockingly racist threats to her interracial couple neighbors — and even painting the n-word and a swastika on their driveway.

But it gets even WORSE for her…

The Trumper, 54-year-old Suzanne Craft of Louisville, Kentucky, was also slapped with three additional years of supervised release.

Her mailings contained “bullets” and were “laced with profanity and racist epithets,” according to federal prosecutors. One of the letters even threatened the wife’s life, reading “DIE STUPID BITCH MOVE OUT.”

She was convicted by a federal jury on five counts of mailing threatening communications.

In an rare move, the Justice Department released an official statement immediately after her sentencing, declaring that, “There is no room in civilized society for violent threats based on race. We hope that this result brings some measure of peace to victims who had to suffer through the defendant’s terrifying threats of racial violence.”

Let’s hope that her massive prison sentence serves as a lesson — and a deterrent — for all the other racists out there…”

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie And that loser should go to prison. But let me ask: what does being a “Trumper” have to do with anything? Again, it is a left-wing outlet trying to stir up attention by attacking Trump. The girl doing the crime was a douchebag to start with. There is nothing else in that story that says Trump influenced her other than that they called her a “Trumper”. Are you really saying that is all it takes to blame Trump for things? Then why isn’t the same standard applied to Biden? I mean let’s be honest, I could find some criminal that was arrested for armed robbery and call them a “Bidener” and thereby blame Biden for the crime.

I’m explaining why I hate the skew in the media. But you don’t see the skew, do you? And I’m pointing out why that skew is not applied equally across the board. Guiliani screwed up, but did nothing that many others hadn’t done before him, including many Democrats. It was determined at the time (and fought hard for by the left) that it was a big nothing burger when they did it so why is the standard changed for the right?

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Of course I see the bias on this piece of “media.” But, you don’t think right leaning biased media does the same thing?

You don’t seem to notice when Democratic jellies agree when a Democrat has done a shitty thing. You don’t notice that the DOJ, state, and local law enforcement arrest and we convict people breaking the law on both sides of the political aisle and we convict people who aren’t political, but who are just simply criminals.

The point is Trump and some other Republicans actually campaign on encouraging White Supremacists who have an easy potential to be violent. Republicans encourage them to be armed. Republicans use vocabulary that encourages bigotry. I don’t see Democratic leadership encouraging or defending bringing a rifle to a protest in front of a state Capitol building like what happened in Michigan.

Let me help you with the comparison you are about to bring up: I bet you the rioters that used BLM protests to loot and create havoc don’t even vote. I doubt they worship Biden, Pelosi, AOC, or any other political leader. They are just angry and acting out or criminals. A few were right-wingers creating havoc.

Do you hear anyone on the extreme left saying a specific politician told them to act out violently like the Jan 6th people do?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ya know wulfie you get all upset that we don’t foam at the mouth when a democrat commits a crime like we do when a fright winger does.
Yet we do say well they should face charges but that isn’t good enough for you, may I point out YOU don’t foam at the mouth when one of your fright wing friends break the law, oh you say yeah they should be charged, or with your bud Rudy why bother the left don’t pay for their crimes why start with Rudy.
I have never seen you get upset over a fright winger ,like you do when a lefty does a bad thing how come,how come especially if you want it from us?

janbb's avatar

I just have to say I love this headline. Even if you can’t get to the whole article:

The New Jack Smith Indictment is Where Whataboutism Goes to Die

canidmajor's avatar

@janbb Wonderful title and wonderful article! Loving this: ”What those circling their wagons around Mr. Trump are in effect asking for is a two-tiered system, in which the people who were stirred by lies to interrupt the congressional certification are held to account but not the chief instigator.”

Forever_Free's avatar

Giuliani frozen in Carbonite

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