General Question

imrainmaker's avatar

Trump has cancelled meeting with Kim Jong Un. What will be the repercussions of this?

Asked by imrainmaker (7538points) 4 weeks ago

As asked.

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61 Answers

MrGrimm888's avatar

Nobel Peace Prize.

2davidc8's avatar

I get the feeling that Trump never intended with meet with Kim anyway. It was all for show.

Zaku's avatar

Normal for Trump does seem to be changing what he says about the same subject quite frequently. Every time he changes his mind, he gets more publicity. Odds are, he’ll change back.

flutherother's avatar

Kim Jong-un appears almost statesmanlike compared with Trump and his incompetent administration. It would be laughable if it weren’t potentially so very, very serious.

JLeslie's avatar

His supporters will say he should cancel, and come up with the reason why initially making the meeting was a good idea, and now cancelling is a good idea. Probably most specially talk about how horribly the NK leader is and how horrible it is to live in NK.

The people who hate Trump will say either that he never should have made the meeting and luckily cane to his senses, or that it probably was NK that actually cancelled the meeting, or something that Trump is an idiot.

ragingloli's avatar

The “commemorative coins” he had minted for the occasion will now become very popular with his detractors as symbols of his unprecedented ineptitude.

LostInParadise's avatar

Look out! Here comes Trump the wrecking ball. Swoosh swoosh swoosh. Iran deal, Korean deal, Obamacare, pollution controls, public education, renewable energy. Looks like it is heading for social security.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Short term, lots of noise.

Long term, nothing. Nothing will change. This was all play-acting. Neither side is going to budge.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Shit, looks like there goes Trump’s Nobel Prize.

KNOWITALL's avatar

From what I’ve read, the NK’s are making threats and rude comments, so frankly, if they want to be nasty, no reason for us to meet with them and make nice.

“As the date for the meeting drew closer, American and North Korean officials staked out deeply divergent positions on how quickly the North should surrender its nuclear arsenal. North Korean officials failed to show up for a planning meeting last week in Singapore, snubbing a White House advance team led by the deputy chief of staff, Joe Hagin.

The White House, which seemed ill-prepared for a long negotiation, began to have second thoughts. By Thursday, after a North Korean official labeled Vice President Mike Pence a “political dummy” and threatened a “nuclear-to-nuclear showdown,” there seemed little rationale for the encounter, beyond Mr. Trump’s desire to make history.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/asia/north-korea-trump-summit.html

kritiper's avatar

Kimmy might get the idea that the US can’t be played.

flutherother's avatar

It seems the meeting may be back on again. Trump has said his summit with North Korea’s leader could still happen on 12 June, despite earlier cancelling the meeting.

“We’ll see what happens. It could even be the 12th. We’re talking to them now. They very much want to do it, we’d like to do it,” he told reporters.

“We’ll see what happens”, is one of Trump’s favourite phrases. What a cop out. You are president you ninny it is up to you to make things happen!

Yellowdog's avatar

Ultimately, all of you are saying, the meeting and conditions should be on Kim Jong Un’s terms. Right?

Aster's avatar

Kim needs to know who’s boss. He was making noises and semi threats so Trump simply cancelled the meeting. If Kim keeps his mouth shut the meeting may indeed happen in a couple of months
. Trump WANTS it to happen and, if and when it does , he may get the Nobel Peace Prize.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I’ll repeat what I wrote a couple weeks ago in a related question.

—> It was stupid for Trump to agree on this summit with no preparation and no thought. Summits take months of planning and preparation – this came together in a week or two. This was ill-conceived from the start.

But once he agreed, Trump looks stupid and cowardly for pulling out.

And once again the underlying message: You cannot trust the US to keep its word.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@elbanditoroso I completely disagree. How quickly people forget, he got three American citizens out just by playing nice for awhile, those people would probably not say he was cowardly. After sending Otto back brain dead, we don’t owe that little dictator anything. His people who have been starved and abused, we’d love to help them though.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/politics/donald-trump-north-korea-detainees/index.html

They do things like this: .... and been used by North Korea as a diplomatic tool to secure a visit by a high-profile US envoy.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-22379241

Aster's avatar

@elbanditoroso “No prep and no thought.” So just because you were never in any Whitehouse meetings you really think Trump and/or his advisors would go into a major history making meeting with no thought or prep??
“Trump looks stupid and cowardly.” To whom? What is stupid about canceling a meeting when the opposition sounds like they’re going to cancel first?
“The US can’t keep it’s word.” What a sweeping generalization!

elbanditoroso's avatar

@aster:

- US pulling out or Iran agreement
– US pulling out of Paris climate treaty
– US trying to pull out of NAFTA
– US breaking NATO norms and US support of NATO

I’d say there is a good documented history of the US not keeping its word.

Aster's avatar

A person’s “word” comes from the phrase, ” word of Honor.” Your examples , which I won’t discuss individually, are not examples of Trump having given his word of Honor. This is politics; not a Boy Scout class.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@elbandit What Trump voters see is that he’s fighting for American interests, which was part of his campaign promises. All Presidents negotiate, you don’t know the outcome until later usually though.

Iran
Since the agreement, Iran’s bloody ambitions have grown only more brazen,” the president said, referring to Iran’s siding with Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad in that country’s civil war.

Paris
In June, Mr Trump indicated he was open to another climate deal “on terms that are fair to the United States”.

NAFTA
Instead, the president is inclined to renegotiate the pact between the U.S., Canada and Mexico, “difficult as that’s going to be,” Kudlow said.

NATO
And America is unsurprisingly looking for member countries to commit to spend more on defense: “The appropriate amount of burden sharing … is part of what will be a deliverable at the summit,” Hutchison said.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Aster – so it’s OK for the US to bail out of signed treaties and US commitments because he didn’t personally give his word? Oh puhleez.

Jaxk's avatar

You may want to review what constitutes a ‘Treaty’.

LadyMarissa's avatar

There never was a summit planned. Moon Jae-in & Trump came up with that joke to try & make Un look bad; but they forgot to fill Un in & he refuses to play along!!!

stanleybmanly's avatar

Arrogance plus ignorance makes for some hard lessons! But now I’m going to say something none of you are likely to ever hear me repeat. At least he tried.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And another thing—more backhanded praise. Kim and his cohorts find themselves up agsinst the one opponent where acting crazy is a complete waste of time. Nobody is gonna outcrazy Trump. For the first time ever that I can remember, the North Koreans are going to emerge from negotiations with America as the “calm and sensible” participants

flutherother's avatar

If Trump gets the Nobel peace prize ( which he will not have deserved) I am going to scream. You have been warned.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Believe me, if he gets it, it will certainly be because he deserved it.

Yellowdog's avatar

Al Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize for writing about that there were fish swimming in the streets of downtown Miami (Lies which a lot of people believed) and that all the Polar ice caps would be gone a decade ago. More Lies

He won the prize over the candidacy of a 90-year-old nurse who saved a lot of lives in WWII and never received the well-deserved prize.

Obama won next. Evidently for doing a list of very wonderful things bringing people together for the cause of peace, and for all that he said he was going to do, but hadn’t done yet, and never even did.

Most of you would agree, then, that Trump is VERY deserving of this award.

stanleybmanly's avatar

What Trump deserves is a dunce cap and a lengthy prison sentence.

Yellowdog's avatar

Through his unorthodox methods, Trump has brought an unusually stable alliance in the middle east, has eased diplomatic relations worldwide, stabilized and grown an now-burgeoning U.S. economy, is working with an alliance for denuclearizing the Korean peninsula.

He has been working against a powerful, powerful weaponized Obama DOJ, FBI and CIA which has planted spies, liars, and leakers, jeapardizing national and even global security, at an attempt at a coup—the first time in U.S. History a sitting president (Obama) has weaponized national intelligence against private citizens and an opposing in-coming political party and U.S. President,

If Trump were stupid, the first trick you tried would have worked and Trump would have been out in less than two months. But every trick tried has backfired for 17 months, And the tricks have been powerful, costing dozens of innocent citizens’ lives and reputations, and done more harm to the U.S. than any foreign adversary could have dreamed.

Kim Jung Un looks like a STATESMAN ??? The Iran deal was GOOD for America ???
Many of you would rather see the U.S. fall as long as it meant Trump would fail.

ragingloli's avatar

Sure, because unilaterally breaking trade agreements, threatening other countries with punitive tarrifs, and making the EU pass a union wide directive making it illegal for European companies to follow US-imposed sanctions on Iran, in order to preserve the Iran deal, counts as “easing diplomatic relations”.

Yellowdog's avatar

No one in the U.S. voted on the Iran deal. It never went before a senate vote. Iran remains the world’s number one sponsor of terrorism and was building a fantastic nuclear arsenal. The only thing that changed was, we reinstated the sanctions. Obama already made them very rich and well funded,

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Yellowdog – yes, the stable alliance you speak of is with Russia, Syria, and Iran (with a nod to Hesbollah in Lebanon). Trump has been immensely successful in letting that alliance come to fruition.

SO now we will see that @Yellowdog is a supporter of Russia, Iran, etc., and an enemy of the US, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and so on.

ragingloli's avatar

@Yellowdog
“No one in the U.S. voted on the Iran deal”
And the majority of people in your country voted for Clinton, but you seem to be fine with the EC disregarding the will of the people.

Aster's avatar

WASHINGTON — President Trump greeted North Korea’s most recent statements with optimism Friday, saying it could lead to a restart of the peace talks he abandoned the day before — perhaps as originally scheduled on June 12.

“We’ll see what happens. We are talking to them now,” Trump said. “They very much want to do it. We’d like to do it.”

Trump suggested that the on-again, off-again talks are just part of the game of international diplomacy.

“Everybody plays games,” he told reporters on the south lawn of the White House. “You know that better than anybody.” May 25. I KNEW they’d get together soon.

Jeruba's avatar

> Kim needs to know who’s boss.

Astonishing. Whether we like it or not, North Korea is a sovereign nation. Neither Trump nor any other leader, neither the U.S. nor any other country, is the boss of other sovereign nations.

And it doesn’t look like DPRK is going to be our colony anytime soon.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Yellowdog You really should adjust the dosage of whatever medication generates these delusions. The only words in those paragraphs above on the sane side of reality are “unorthodox methods”, a charitable euphemism for
ignorant bungling. Trump as a diplomat is like lessons on etiquette from a wolverine. Stable alliance in the Middle East? “eased diplomatic relations world wide???” The world is flabbergasted and gawks in wonder as the orange buffoon stumbles around rudderless bumping into shit and knocking things over. The country no longer has anything resembling a cogent foreign policy, as most vital positions in the former State department go unstaffed, top foreign policy talent resigns or is fired in record numbers, and those who are appointed prove as inept and incompetent as the fool who chose them. The world is united in glaring with disbelief at the trainwreck. You are correct in stating that the nations of the world are forced into cooperation as the wrecking ball of the United States swings perilously among them with no apparent purpose. And here I’m going to seriously suggest that you consider the reality when someone insists that “everybody’s against me”. You talk just like Trump, and the 2 of you have the best Captain Queeg impersonation since Bogart set the standard. Let me ask you which is more probable; that the entire security apparatus of this country, combined with all living past Presidents, and the entire panoply of credible journailsm scheme together to undo your idiot of a President, or that a defective and (justifiably) insecure bungler suffers delusions of persecution. Which is it? One neurotic narcissistic psychopath, or an entire government and independent press out to torpedo an intrepid hero?

Aster's avatar

@Jeruba I did not mean that the US would be the leader over N Korea. I meant that Trump wants to be the one to decide if there’s a meeting or not. And according to the news today there will be a meeting after all.

Darth_Algar's avatar

By the time Trump and his “unorthodox methods” are through the United States will be lucky if it retains a seat at the world table at all.

2davidc8's avatar

The Nobel Peace Prize is a joke. The other Nobel Prizes aren’t that much better. Chemistry, medicine, economics, but especially peace and literature. There were many who were deserving but never won, and others who won who were not deserving. I still remember the chemistry winner whose work was later shown to be incorrect. And then there were cases where 3 researches were working on the same things, and they gave the prize to two of them but not the third. WTF?
The Nobel Prizes, like so many other things, are very political. So Gore, Obama, and now maybe Trump, it’s just political, folks.

Jeruba's avatar

Anyway he probably just wants it because it’s gold. And it’s gold that he can’t simply buy.

Aster's avatar

@2davidc8 If it’s a joke does that mean if you won it you’d laugh and toss it?
Somehow I think that’s unlikely.

Darth_Algar's avatar

The Nobel Peace Prize has been a bad joke since they gave it to Henry Kissinger.

JLeslie's avatar

I voted for Obama and I honestly don’t understand why he got the Nobel Peace Prize when he received it. Had he really done so much more than other presidents previous to him (I realize a few other presidents won peace prizes in or after they were in office) and everyone else that year who was in the running for the prize?

imrainmaker's avatar

I think Kim Jong Un should be more deserving candidate than Trump:)~

flutherother's avatar

Or President Xi of China. I think he’s worked pretty effectively behind the scenes to calm things down and resolve things peacefully.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Regardless of the headlines, South Korea is doing all the heavy lifting diplomatically. They deserve a LOT of credit. They have made many sacrifices, to try to unify the peninsula.

Yellowdog's avatar

Yes, the South Korean president even recommended Trump receive the Pulitzer Prize.

S Korea was threatened, intimidated, for decades to no avail. No U.S. response or help.

S Korea credits Trump. Why can’t you?

MrGrimm888's avatar

South Korea is doing what other countries do. Pandering to Trump’s fragile ego.

I concede that Trump has played a role in this. How large a role, or what North Korea is really up to, will possibly be determined by the near future.

If Trump stumbles into successful peace, by being so similar to Kim, I’ll be VERY happy. The North Korean people, have suffered long enough.

So far. Not really any progress…

Yellowdog's avatar

Both Trump and Kim have big egos but completely different personality types, and relations with the people around them. Can you honestly not see a difference in the personality and methodology of Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un?

What is happening is, Kim has never had to submit to a more powerful person, such as an actual authority figure. the law, a judge, etc etc. In HIS universe, HE is God. His answer to problems is to have someone executed or send them to prison camps until they are vegetables. All the people suffering in his country are suffering for HIM because it is their purpose for existence. They have no more value than the individual cheese crackers he guzzles for his pleasure.

Trump has given Kim Jung Un specific ultimatums and Kim is not able to play him, threaten him, or kill him. In fact, Kim is in a tght spot for the first time in his entire reality. To Trump, he cannot and will not back down until he gets what he wants—which is essential for the safety of the world, but America foremost.

Kim Jung Un was making his usual threats when Trump withdrew.

The deal being worked out is, Kim realizes for the first time that he and his world can be utterly annihilated. And he needs some kind of assurance that the military exercizes the U.S. is engaged with South Korea is not a threat to his empire (him ultimately).if he gives up the nukes.

I ultimately DO believe this will work out as scheduled.

If you really understood Trump and Kim and how they are different, you might actually find it intriguing as to how things will play out.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I think, @Yellowdog , that you are pollyannaish and naive.

Your observations about Kim are based on wishful thinking. I think that Kim knows exactly what he is doing – playing Trump like a fiddle. Appealing to Trump’s ego. Ultimately it will be a bait and switch. And the US will be on the short end. Trump is so eager for some sort of victory in Korea that he will give away the store (and later recant it). And Kim knows that.

Kim may not have a great economy, but he has a shitload of motivated brainwashed people. And he has the backing of China as long as he doesn’t shoot off nukes any more.

Kim can (and will) delay and delay until Trump (a) either does something incredibly stupid, or (b) is no longer president.

I think, @Yellowdog , that your optimism is far from realistic.

Yellowdog's avatar

The techniques you described are those of Bill Clinton in the early 1990s. I don’t think Trump thinks like that.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Kim’s regime was labeled as part of the “axis of evil,” by G.W.

Obama flew bombers straight over Kim.

War games have continued annually for many years.

There has not been a time in recent history, where NK hasn’t been under pressure from the US.

Total annihilation is not a fear of Kim’s. He only fears he will die in regime change. That has always been tabled, and always a threat to Kim. If anything, Trump’s rhetoric lends credibility to Kim’s paranoid pursuit of nukes.

There is speculation that Kim has already completed several, to several dozen warheads. His missile testing is complete too. He is likely sitting on a nuclear arsenal. All of this “progress,” is likely due to Kim already having achieved his goals. In which case, any stopping of the nuclear weapons program, would be irrelevant, but a great bluff to maybe get some things they want…

flutherother's avatar

All Trump can do is stand on the sidelines waving a big stick like some kind of caveman. His inconsistency makes it almost impossible for Kim to reason with him. Just last week Trump cancelled his meeting with Kim and he has been making stupid comparisons with Gaddafi.

Kim must also be very aware that Trump has unilaterally torn up the nuclear agreement with Iran and is once again resorting to sanctions and his big stick.

Yellowdog's avatar

Actually, Kim Jung Un was back to threatening the U.S. with nukes.

If you are the leader or conducting a meeting, and the folks around the table start to get nasty, making threats, you cancel or adjourn the meeting until later, when business can be conducted.

Its funny that you see Kim Jung Un as the civil and smooth one here. Trump was calm and reasonable about the terms and offered to keep dialogue open. Kim Jung Un was ranting about nuclear holocaust,

Jaxk's avatar

I’m not sure what most of you want or expect from these negotiations. Trump said that if we didn’t see good faith, he would walk. So when NOKO began making threats again, he walked. Why is that a surprise? Now it looks like NOKO is back to wanting to work with us and the negotiations are back on. I would assume that if Kim goes a little nuts again, Trump will walk again. You can’t make a deal unless both sides want one. Why is that so hard to grasp?

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Yellowdog . First off. I don’t see where anyone is referring to Kim, as “civil, and smooth.” On the contrary, I think most think Kim is similar to Trump. The analogy is very sound.

And Trump calling Kim “short and fat,” and threatening him, is NOT calm, nor reasonable. It is absolutely not the way ANY word leader should speak. Ever…

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Jaxk . Earlier, you spoke as if the whole thing was already wrapped up. Mission accomplished. We are indeed, at least, speaking about speaking. But I’m concerned. I don’t trust NK. And I don’t trust Trump. I think Trump is easily manipulated, and NK knows how to play this hand better than him. Doing Real Estate deals, and paying off porn stars, is different than negotiating with essentially a murderous tyrant. Hanging in the balance are tens of millions of lives, that can either improve, or get worse. There are nuclear weapons at play. There is international stabilization at risk. A wrong iteration by either man, could lead to war, as both are wildly insecure and unpredictable.

Why is that “so hard to grasp?”

Jaxk's avatar

There have nuclear weapons at play and international stabilization at play for a long time. The difference is that we now have a leader that appears to be able to do something positive about it. If I were completely wrapped in the throes of ‘Trump Derangement Syndrome’ may I could see your point. I’m not and all I see is the possibility of an end to this madness.

I will continue to root for Trump. I assume you will continue to root for Kim. Afterall, it is more important that Trump fail than it is for the world to succeed.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I am not that guy. I have openly said, that I think Trump could fall into a win, of some kind. I’m actually hoping for a eventual shutting down of the prison camps in NK. If that happens, I’ll personally send Trump a thank you letter. I know that Trump is highly motivated to make a deal, because he wants the Nobel. It’s possible that this weakness of ego, will make Trump’s stipulations lesser for completing a deal. If they stroke his ego, and blow up that mountain that is already blown up, stop making nukes (because they probably have some,) and hide them well, there could be a deal struck.

Striking any sort of official deal, would obviously be a building block for future diplomacy. That would be great, as he could begin negotiations on shuttering the prison camps. If he hopefully cares…

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