General Question

elbanditoroso's avatar

Trump's storm troopers are now going to Chicago. How long will it be before they kill someone?

Asked by elbanditoroso (28260points) 1 week ago

article

Isn’t America great? We are attacked by are own government!

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

156 Answers

Inspired_2write's avatar

….” hinted Sunday that federal agents “MAY” be deployed to Chicago as soon as this week to crack down on protests and gun violence in a military-style response similar to Portland, Oregon.”

He always does this to get media attention , which works.

By doing this “if” he does it..he kills his own Political career by suppressing “Freedom Of Speech” etc

Jeruba's avatar

Not to go courting Godwin, but in my reading about the Third Reich I see that this is exactly how a certain Austrian gained political power in Germany and beyond: taking advantage of civil disturbances, or even spurring them himself as a pretext, in order to put them down heavy-handedly in the name of peace. People bought the lie and gave him the reins.

Putin has done the same thing.

This is an old playbook by now, and it’ll work unless Americans finally find their backbone and oust this trashy crook (next to whom Don Corleone was a paragon of class, style, dignity, and honor).

Glambarber's avatar

Knowing Trump, it’ll be in the next hour.

canidmajor's avatar

I wonder how the Rise of the American Reich will be written about in thirty years.

I will be interested to see how the cultists on fluther defend this.

dabbler's avatar

And how long until someone, pretending to be whatever an ANTIFA is, kills one of the DHS troops? Then how ugly are they going to be….

Federal troops marching on U.S. cities – isn’t that the scenario the twisted 2nd-amendment gundamentalists like to use as an excuse to bear arms? When will we see them up against DHS troops?

janbb's avatar

It makes me physically sick.

kritiper's avatar

Hey, this isn’t Russia, ya know…

Lightlyseared's avatar

Trump has also declared he won’t accept the election results. So you guys best get used to the new normal.

si3tech's avatar

@elbamditotoroso America is great. We cannot let the thug 2% of our population determine what the 98% does. You don’t take a knife to a gun fight. The thugs do and have killed several.

kritiper's avatar

@Lightlyseared I had an idea this morning that, if Trump loses, he’ll commit suicide in the Oval Office.

Inspired_2write's avatar

@Lightlyseared
Or he will be in a Dementia ward, thinking that he is still President?

Lightlyseared's avatar

@kritiper i think that’s just a dream. Don’t worry with time it will fade.

@Inspired_2write only the Presidents own cabinet can declare him not of sound mind so I don’t think that’s likely

Inspired_2write's avatar

@Lightlyseared
I am sure that the Dementia will advance to that point.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

It’s maddening to watch this unfold. :(

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I feel Canada is to close to this madness .

Pandora's avatar

Not very long from now. Trump is trying to use intimidation tactics before the elections. My son in law who is far from political has turned political. He use to work in intelligence in the military. He says every one of Trumps’ steps is used in authoritarian regimes. This Gestapo move is used is something they look for in changes of countries that are about to become a dictatorship. He finds it unbelievable that our military doesn’t see Trump as the enemy of the nation right now and are doing nothing to stop him.

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
Jeruba's avatar

I want Peter Graves, Martin Landau, Barbara Bain, Greg Morris, and Peter Lupus here right now.

Response moderated (Spam)
Pandora's avatar

@Jeruba you will have to do some digging Wow, those names give away how old I am. LOL

basstrom188's avatar

UK will follow soon. We have our own version of Trump in Boris Johnson. UK always follows America like a little poodle. I fear for my country.

ragingloli's avatar

Remember how the right wingers were flipping out over the “Jade Helm” training exercise?
And how they are cheering now?
And where are those “oath keepers” at?
Or the gun nuts lusting after “taking up arms against tyranny”?
Once again I am proven right in my opinions about those people.

“Don’t tread on me! Tread on them!”

canidmajor's avatar

@Jeruba, “...the Secretary will disavow all knowledge…” :-)

Jaxk's avatar

I am continuously amazed by the way you all spin this violence. More than 20 people have been killed already during these peaceful protests. Billions in property damage and terror in the streets. If you don’t want any authority to take control of this situation, the answer is simple, STOP RIOTING!!!.

How many people must be killed, how much property damage must we accept before we say enough? The protests are out of control and they are not peaceful. Mindless mobs are roaming the streets and Trump did not cause this. Get a grip.

Pandora's avatar

Here is a list of 19 dead. Some seem to have no actual ties to protestors. Just that it was in the vicinity of one happening. And some are protesters that were victimized. Probably by criminals just taking advantage of the confusion or people who are directing their hatred towards protestors.
Some are by protestors but again, more than likely criminals who are taking advantage or the large gatherings and confusion. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days-of-protests-19-dead/#707564834de4

seawulf575's avatar

@Jaxk I wish I could give you more than one GA.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

To our right wing fans how many times have the Police themselves escalated the situations?
How many times did undercover police escalate the situation?
Been known to happen,I am impressed when protesters rise up and refuse to the riot level.
What is your solution to this crisis about Black lives matter?
Write a letter to Trump?Yeah because he cares so much.
That Flint Mich. Sheriff is a freaking hero for not escalating the situation,Trump is NOT!

ragingloli's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
“What is your solution to this crisis about Black lives matter.”
You know the answer to that.
They have already rejected the notion that BLM could possibly have a valid cause.
They are smearing the BLM movement as terrorism.
And their solution to it is a violent crackdown.
And on the inside, they would be cheering if they all got killed, though they would only admit it, once the country has completely succumbed to fascism.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Sadly I have to agree with ya @ragingloli .
Fright wingers can’t even say Black lives matter.
Best they can muster is a pathetic All lives matter.

ragingloli's avatar

“All lives matter.” and even then they do not actually mean it.

Yellowdog's avatar

This is really scary, what everyone in this thread have written.

I considered flagging it as being in poor taste when I first saw it, but guessed the discussion would be interesting.

17 people were shot at a funeral (not sure how many, if any, have since died) just tonight, The folks attending the funeral returned fire—they had guns in the funeral home. This was, of course, one of dozens of daily gang-related funerals.

Just last night, over forty police officers were severely injured with bottles and bricks, using only riot shields for defense, and not defending themselves with guns, The police were trying to defend a Christopher Columbus statue.

Shootings are up 40 percent this year alone, and violent crime was already higher than New York last year.

Most of the victims of this carnage / killing field that has become of Chicago are minorities and the poor. You don’t seem to understand that they cannot leave their homes, and are frequenly shot in their homes. Most of the politicians are not only very rich but use taxpayer funds for their own private security. Chicago wasn’t even this bad in the mobster days, and the politics never this corrupt. Yet the police are being thinned out and defunded.

It is mind-boggling and disgusting that anyone posted this question, but all of the responses I’ve read in this discussion are beyond belief.

Give up your Democrat loyalty and support local and federal law enforcement for once, for the sake of the victims in the killing fields.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
SQUEEKY2's avatar

Good grief @Yellowdog Every last one of us support the police, what we have a problem with is POLICE BRUTALITY, that was out of control.
Give up our Democrat loyalty??
For what the American Reich?

Glambarber's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: Good grief! Every last one of us support the police? I don’t think so. Not where I live. We want vigilantism. Police brutality is one of the main reasons why.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “To our right wing fans how many times have the Police themselves escalated the situations?” Okay, let’s look at Portland. 55 days now a chunk of that city has been under the control of the protesters. People have been killed, beaten, raped, properties and businesses have been destroyed…and no cops have been there. So I guess to my left wing fans, how much is too much of a violent protest? When do you finally say “hey, this is not what I want to live in!”?

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
KNOWITALL's avatar

Did you hear Trump is now sending multiple agencies to Chicago to clean house?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=305972517266032

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Hey this Canadian news cast at the protests show more of these Federal officers escalating the situation https://globalnews.ca/news/7199928/portland-protests-what-is-happening/
I mean pepper spraying a vet who just wanted to talk to the officers.
There are people that want riots but that is not what the real protestors want.
MAYBE these killings and rapes are being done by the federal people trying to make the protestors look bad.thus giving ole orange hair a reason for sending in the comandos.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I mean if @Yellowdog can throw all these stories at us and expect us to believe them why can’t I?

JLeslie's avatar

How are Republicans ok with federal troops going in when not asked for by the governor? What about states’ rights? This is completely anti-federalist.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie 1— Because then they ask for federal aid aka taxpayer funds to rebuild like Minneapolis did.

2— No one cares about peaceful protesters but we all should care about the innocent victims in those areas.
I feel like we live on different planets, this isnt complicated.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL It has nothing to do with funds. There are only very specific reasons for the fed to go into a state without a governor requesting it. Something seems off here. The state is specifically asking for the fed to leave. Do you believe the state and the mayor want people to get hurt? Don’t you think the state would ask for help if they needed it to keep people safe?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I wrote a long, detailed reply but why bother.
Frankly if states agreed not to ask for any federal funds, I’d just wash my hands of it.
I guess Trump feels a responsibilty. If Obama tried to help would you be as offended?

Tell me this is okay.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/02/chicago-murder-spike-among-minors-leaves-communities-seeking-solutions/5363700002/

I could post 20 articles from the last two months.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL I was just mostly curious about the Republican response. I’ll read what you wrote. I can turn it around if Obama did this would Republicans be ok with it? I’m not asking you to answer, just saying you know a lot of Republicans wouldn’t be.

I honestly don’t feel like debating right now, so I’ll just leave it there. I need a political time out for a few days. It’s not about you or what you wrote. I’m just tired. My apologies for cutting it short.

Yellowdog's avatar

Maybe the Democrats would rather see their cities burned out, to blame it on Trump. just a simple, uncomplicated thought.

No businesses will want to rebuild theire—they paid their taxes and got no protection while the local politicians let their buisnesses burn Therre are huge swaths of destroyed areas in several of our major cities.

No one will want to OPEN a business there—after seeing what the local leadership did.

No one will want to INVEST in a business there. That would be a total loss of anything invested, especially since no insurance company would cover a business located in such a district. The sores of once once vital communities will fester for generations.

There will be no tax revenue. Cities will be begging the feds to feed their people and operate services—waot—no they won’t.

The bread lines and volunteer hole-in-the-wall clinics are coming.

But no matter how much you wish to spin the narrative, Trump is the one who offered help, and he was told to keep his “personal militia” out.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I honestly feel the same. You and I just aren’t on the same wavelength right now though we keep trying. I don’t want to be mean to prove my point either but I’m tempted when babies are dying and Trumps an asshole for caring. So better if we take a break.
Obama can come right now to St Louis and help end violence. Please someone do something.
Your picture of Republicans truly seems to be nothing like mine, honestly it wears me out.

LostInParadise's avatar

The only justification that the federal government has for interfering is if federal property is being threatened. This was true in Portland, where federal agents clearly overstepped their authority, detaining innocent protesters.. I don’t know what the case is for Chicago.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@LostInParadise ’‘We believe that, number one, federal, state, county and city governments fail to give the investment and the resources that our communities need – that they’re killing us. We can’t continue to have abandoned and neglected neighborhoods that look like third-world countries,” Pfleger said. “People are no longer going to tolerate this neglect, which was put in our face again with COVID-19.”
Seems like they are asking for help to me.

LostInParadise's avatar

Who is Pfleger? And how would sending in federal troops solve the problem of abandoned and neglected neighborhoods?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@LostInParadise It’s in my link a few posts up.

Rev. Michael Pfleger, an anti-gun violence activist and priest at Saint Sabina Church in the South Side Auburn Gresham neighborhood.

It doesn’t seem to be about abandoned and neglected neighborhoods but murder.
”....murder is up 34%, and shootings are up 45%, according to police data as of June 28.”

KNOWITALL's avatar

@LostInParadise Apparently your criteria for Federal involvement has occurred and is listed in this article along with dates.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland

LostInParadise's avatar

I found your article. Pfleger clearly does not see sending in troops as a solution to the problem:
This is from the article.

In advance of Fourth of July weekend, which has been historically violent, the Chicago Police Department announced plans Monday to deploy an additional 1,200 officers to “hot spots” around the city. New Police Superintendent David Brown said officers would also be arresting young people at “drug corners” in an effort to stem the surge of shootings.

“The street corner open-air drug market is the pipeline to shootings and murders in Chicago,” Brown said in a press conference Monday. “When they have no consequence, violence continues. Full stop.”

Brown’s comments spurred backlash from activists and city residents.

“That’s unacceptable,” Pfleger said. “That’s the same old policing, military mentality of locking people up. No. Just do the police job they’re supposed to do. Be vigilant in the communities. But don’t take away people’s human rights by holding them in jail til Monday.”

Demosthenes's avatar

There’s a difference between the reasons for sending in the “stormtroopers” to Portland vs. Chicago. In Portland, they were sent to protect federal buildings. In Chicago, they’re being sent in an attempt to lower a murder rate that continues to climb. In both cases, however, they’re being sent in because the local police are ineffective. The murder rate in Chicago continues to rise (as it has done over the past few years) and “no one knows why” (according to a few articles I’ve read). If the local institutions can’t remedy it, maybe it’s time to send in the feds. Yes, I know, the complaints of hypocrisy re. Republicans who go on about “state’s rights” and “small government” supporting this, well, I’m not a Republican, so I don’t really care. I think there is a role for federal officers and I think “state’s rights” (much like “common sense”) is an often meaningless opportunistic argument used when one disagrees with the federal government. States can’t just go rogue. The Civil War taught us that. So the question is: are they actually going to solve the problem or make things worse? If you have another plan for lowering the murder rate in Chicago, I’d love to hear it. It doesn’t seem like the local institutions in Chicago are having much effect and meanwhile people continue to die every week (numbers that would spark days and days of discussion and national mourning and “thoughts and prayers” if it were a mass shooting).

KNOWITALL's avatar

@LostInParadise I didn’t say he did. You are choosing to misunderstand this is about murder and violence and innocent children caught in the crossfire. Literally.
Many of us fully support alternatives to federal intervention. Trump has said that many times himself. How many kids have to die before he’s allowed to try to help?
(Edited to add)
Pfleger did say Fed’s have failed to give them the support they need in the article.

ragingloli's avatar

He still has children caged in concentration camps, and intends to force schools to resume normal operation without adhering to CDC guidelines during a new exponential covid growth phase, so this “think of the children!” spiel is… “disingenuous” at best.

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli You are so good at spreading propaganda! Are you related to Goebbels? Let’s get to some of the facts….not the accusations and partial stories you like to spread.
“Children caged in concentration camps”. First off, the pictures of kids being held in cages? Yeah, those were from Obama’s time in office. It was his idea to start doing that. Trump just changed the rules so he can help keep the illegal immigrants out of the country instead of trying to deal with them when they get here. Additionally, we have no concentration camps in this country…at least I don’t THINK so. If we do they are so secret neither you nor I would know about them. The closest thing we ever had was the internment camps that FDR set up to round up people of Japanese decent in this country. But then, FDR was a Democrat…just like Obama…so that makes sense too. So your entire statement here is bogus…propaganda.
But let’s continue on. You are trying to conflate his statement that he wants schools open normally and CDC guidelines for Covid growth rate. Wow. There are a couple points here that you need to be aware of. Per the CDC, school aged children are not as susceptible to Covid-19 as adults. They don’t understand why, but that is what the evidence shows. Also, they have found that most of the children that have gotten this disease have shown no or very mild symptoms with very few showing severe symptoms and almost none dying. And they get over it more quickly than adults. So per the CDC research, opening schools really presents no real threat at all. So spewing all this propaganda is disingenuous at best.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

One of the main things that make you so annoying Wulfie is you think everyone that isn’t fright wing is just a damn lair.
As for children getting Covid 19,ever stop for a moment from licking your masters boots that those children can and will spread it to the adults in their lives, or did your master say that wouldn’t happen?
I remember as kids we brought home every bug that was going around in school and Mom, and Dad would most times come down with it, guess that was just propaganda as well?
Those children in cages might have started under Obama but it is still happening on your orange gods watch.
Your orange turd can not accept responsibility for anything ,blames everything on Democrats,I have never seen such a president being so divisive, absolutely won’t or can’t work with the other side, but he blames the democrats for that as well.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I know you love to try getting me on things, but you should know by now that I do my research which is more than most on here. So let me help you. From the CDC website:
“Based on available evidence, most children do not appear to be at higher risk for COVID-19 than adults. While some children and infants have been sick with COVID-19, adults make up most of the known cases to date.” But that isn’t all! Other countries have studied this as well. I came across a Bloomberg article that talks about a French study into this exact topic. Their conclusions seem to be that children do not transmit this disease to any great extent. And just so I avoid media bias, as I always do, I went to the source. What happened to trust the scientists? Trust the experts? I know…but the liberal media says…!
As for the children in cages, I need a source showing that is still going on. I’ll be honest, I looked for one and couldn’t find it. So since you are making the claim it is still going on, show me the proof. Until then, I say you are wrong. President Trump has done a lot to stop the massive influx of illegals across our southern border so that he wouldn’t have to deal with them here. But I find it funny that while you love to slam Trump, you support Obama who actually started the entire thing. Not a bad word there at all. Amazing. How do you get to be so closed-minded? And you can’t say anything about the Democrats either! Tell me, what have they done to try working with Trump? Was it the bogus Russia collusion investigation? Maybe it was the calls for impeachment that started the day after the election? Could it possibly be the impeachment on absolutely no crimes? I’m really confused…what does Democrats trying to work with you look like? I’m not sure I have ever seen it. In fact, I found this poll that shows how hate filled Democrats really are.

ragingloli's avatar

” but you should know by now that I do my research which is more than most on here”
You believe that women have 2 Y chromosomes.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie they do not transmit the disease to any extent because as of now only about 2% of children have the fucking virus.
Lets get a great deal of children infected then we will see.
And the virus has killed children as well, let’s send them all to the petri dish called school.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 what about what the experts say? what about what the scientists say? Are you really suggesting you know more than them?

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli Yeah, I goofed on that one…hit post accidentally when I was going to another page. Edited it immediately. But then, you think we keep kids in concentration camps in this country. What does that say about your research abilities? Not to mention you try to use the CDC as a point in your conversation when you really didn’t bother to look to see what they said about it. Gee….must be great to be as perfect as you.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Uh this report says it’s mixed, the kids do spread it to others and adults but at a slower rate.
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/05/26/children-transmission

My I ask you would you fell ok in a room that was full of covid19 infected 10 year olds?
I sure as hell wouldn’t.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I’m impressed! A citation! Good job. But one thing I noticed was that the test study you posted repeatedly mentioned how difficult it was to actually get children to study. They basically said they had to make do with what they had. Meanwhile, the one I cited specifically looked at children…775 as opposed to 111 in your study. I’m thinking there’s a difference between the two.
As for being in a room full of Covid-19 infected 10 year olds, first off let’s lose the fear mongering. You were doing so well, too! I’ll stick to the US since those numbers are easier for me to get. There are about 4 million confirmed cases of Covid-19 in the US. Only about 2% of those are children under 18. That’s only 80,000 cases over the past 4 months or so. There are approximately 74 million children in the US. So only about 0.1% of all children are infected. So in a school of 1000 kids, only 1 would statistically have it. So to suggest that all the kids in a class were all in the height of being infected is patently ridiculous.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You do get the FACT, and you do like facts you bring them up over and over and over that this virus is extremely contagious,one person spreads it to 3 people those 3 spread it to nine and it goes on and on.

Jeruba's avatar

If we’re going to talk about stormtroopers, here’s a German perspective, as reported by the New York Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/opinion/trump-germany.html

This strong analysis jibes with my reading of history, current news, and the English edition of Der Spiegel, where I often see excellent op-ed pieces pertaining to events in the U.S.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You do get the FACT that this virus doesn’t even make more than half of those that get it sick. You do understand that, right? You also understand the FACT that most people who are in reasonable health can weather this virus without a lot of medical assistance, right?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf 1 in 5, or 80%, recover with only mild symptoms. So far.

seawulf575's avatar

@Jeruba Gee….there are a couple things missing in that analysis and that you missed when you were jibbing. First is that Hitler rose to power following the economic disaster that was the fall of the Wiemar republic. Economic desperation made his assent much easier. We were in an economic boom before the coronavirus and there is every indication that we could return to that in relatively short order if we can get our economy opened again. That effort is being fought by the Dems and the left tooth and nail. They want the economic disaster to help them ascend to power. Sound familiar? Jibes right with Hitler. Second, Hitler created enemies of the state out of anyone that opposed his view points. He branded them with all sorts of names designed to make them feel flawed and to give the people someone to blame for all their evils. Gee…sounds amazingly like how “racist” and “white supremacist” are being used today, doesn’t it? Oh, and that is being done by the left as well. Thirdly, he had the power of the press backing him. They were his propagandists and he got rid of any news organization that opposed his views. Think Trump has the propagandists on his side? True, he has an on-going war with the liberal media, but then, those organizations have a long history of fake news. Their reporting has been closer to propaganda for the Dems than anything else. Sounds familiar, no? Fourthly, one of Hitlers biggest tools, behind the propaganda, was his use of the brown-shirt thugs to beat down anyone that opposed him, or that MIGHT oppose him. Sounds amazingly like Antifa and BLM, eh? And while they did this, the propgandists used the horrible names to brand the victims so that it looked like they were the threat. Fifthly, Hitler indoctrinated the youth to sing his song and blindly follow him. Gee, where does that happpen in the US? Oh yeah…in every public school and university in the country and it is 100% of the time for the Dems/left.
Funny that your article didn’t address ANY of those things. All they did was try to take one statement from Trump and equate him to Hitler. Yeah, that’s a valid opinion. But in review…which political party is closer to Nazism in the US today? It sure isn’t the Republicans.

Demosthenes's avatar

Right, it’s just the Democrats who are keeping businesses closed in an effort to stop the spread of the pandemic, even though a number of Republican governors have extended restrictions in their states. But I guess they must be “RINO”s then since the pandemic is just a hoax to get Trump out of office…

LostInParadise's avatar

@seawulf575
Let’s take a look at your reference points.

Point one – Economics – before the pandemic, the economy had been improving for the wealthy and not so much for others. In particular, white blue collar non-college educated workers, Trump’s base, had been hit rather hard.

Point two – Trump demands absolute loyalty. He got rid of Sessions, a loyal supporter, because Sessions rightfully recused himself during the Mueller investigation.

Point three – Trump labels the output of all news organizations other than Fox as “fake news”.

Point four – Brown shirted thugs? How about unidentified federal agents tear gassing protesters and shoving them in unmarked vehicles, as is going on in Portland. QAnon poses a much greater threat than the loosely connected organizations that label themselves as Antifa.

Point five – Mass indoctrination in public schools? You can’t be serious.

JLeslie's avatar

If public schools are so bad, why is Trump wanting to get them back open and full of students?

seawulf575's avatar

@LostInParadise Time to hit reality. Your slant is only liberal talking points.
Point 1 – Economics – Lowest unemployment rate in decades. Lowest unemployment rate for minorities (blacks and hispanics) in even longer. Annual median income in the US had risen 8% since Trump took office. Those are not the wealthy…they are the “others” you ignore.
Point 2 – Trump demands loyalty – Of course he does. Take a look at all the people that have tried undermining him from within. As POTUS, people ought to either support him or not work for him. To work “for him” but strive to undermine him is bordering on sedition. Why should ANY POTUS put up with that? Trump’s biggest mistake was that he didn’t just do wholesale removal of anyone that had been in their position under Obama or before. As for Sessions, when he put Sessions into place, if Sessions had issues with being in that position with a special investigation being started, he should have said something before accepting the position, not accepting it and then saying there might be problems. Again…no POTUS should have to put up with that.
Point 3 – Fake News – How many incidents of irresponsible reporting, bogus stories, innuendo passed as fact, and outright lies does a “news” organization have to put out before their credibility is shot? I guess for liberals, as long as all the bogus news if slamming Trump there is no limit. By identifying these lies does not make him bad, it makes him honest. He has repeatedly called for ALL news outlets to report unbiased facts. But thanks for confirming my idea that they are propagandists working for the Dems.
Point 4 – Thugs – So which conservative groups are rioting and looting and beating people up and raping them, killing them and all the other horrible things going on? C’mon…you can say it…none. I can name several from the left. And while we are at it, when some idiot white supremacist group does raise its ugly head, such as at Charlottesville VA, Republicans and Trump denounce them soundly. Quickly. Meanwhile, the media (getting back to propagandists) try to lie about that and say it never happened. But at the same time, when have Democratic Party leaders EVER denounced Antifa or BLM for all the riots and violence? Why aren’t they held to the same standard? In fact, I can name a few times they have actually made excuses for the violence, saying it is justified. How do you justify rioting and looting, raping and killing?

Point 5 – Mass indoctrination in public schools – I can and am serious. Remember the school district that tried teaching all the kids the Prayer to Allah and called it a caligraphy exercise? Teachers are fired for the littlest of things. Remember the teacher/coach that, after winning a tough game, went to the 50 yd line to say a silent prayer? He didn’t ask the kids to join him, he didn’t say anything about it at all to anyone, he just did it. And that was enough for the left to go crazy and have him fired. How about the university professor that physically assaulted a student and her younger sister when they were legally protesting against abortion? She felt it was her right to do whatever was necessary to push her thoughts and eliminate any alternates. You can actually try telling me, with a straight face, that you don’t believe schools are heavily biased left and they are punishing anyone that voices an alternative position?

JLeslie's avatar

^^Because private schools aren’t indoctrinating students or having any negative incidents.~ You must be kidding. Religion and politics was never discussed by my teachers in K-12 or college for that matter unless it was a government class. I have no idea what political or religious leaning my teachers had. I know some K-12 schools break these rules, but those teachers should be shut down. College is slightly different, but still the goal at the university level should be discussion and debate.

Are you saying the teacher who taught the prayer to Allah was fired and shouldn’t have been? Is that because you think it’s ok for schools to teach a version of the Christian Bible as literature in English class and do a prayer before a football game led by the coach?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I had a third grade teacher telling us who to tell our parents to vote for on an upcoming election. That was 1969. When my kids were young, my first graders came home one day and asked how I was going to vote on a given topic. I asked them why they asked. They told me their teacher told them that if their parents didn’t vote in favor of that topic, they didn’t love them. Needless to say I went and had a short and pointed talk with the principal and we dragged the offending teacher in for the finale. But I know I had to deal with crap like that throughout their K-12 school. It has been going on for decades. You are right…those teachers SHOULD be shut down. They should be canned. But they aren’t. They are given a slap on the wrist and told to not do that any more, wink, wink.
The teacher that had the assignment to write out the Shahada was not fired. She was talked to about it. She amended the lesson, but left the writing exercise in it. When it was complained about again, she said she told the students it was optional and they didn’t have to do it if they didn’t want to. However several children contradicted her story saying she told them they had to do the assignment and if they had more questions about the Quran, they could ask their parents. This teacher, as far as I can see, continues to work.
My point on this is that, as you can see with the coach that did a silent prayer, any evidence of Christianity being shown or talked about is met with instant firing. The reason is the bogus “separation of church and state” crap. Meanwhile if it is Islam, it doesn’t seem to fall into that category and is absolutely acceptable. What, Islam isn’t a religion? It doesn’t fall under the Church and State idea the left pushes? Either it is an issue or it isn’t. If you want to say it is okay (or should be) for a teacher to require her kids to write out the Shahada, then allowing prayer in school should likewise be allowed. If it is wrong in one case it is wrong in all. If it is okay in one case, it needs to be okay in all. As it is, it is indoctrination.

Jeruba's avatar

@KNOWITALL,

1 in 5: 20%

4 in 5: 80%

Jeruba's avatar

So—which is it?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 Guess that explains the FACT that 145,000 are dead from this virus.
Or the fact that your health care system is getting over whelmed from it,actually have to choose who they treat and who gets sent home hoping for the best..
The States have the highest death toll of the whole planet from this virus that supposedly just makes you a little ill.
You might believe your so called facts, but I will just look at the number of infected and DEAD and go from there.

Yellowdog's avatar

Sorry, @ragingloli—we saw Antifa breaking barriers, storming and firebombing a Federal courthouse. The Portland police are not allowed to do anything, by their radical mayor,who stands arm-in-arm with Antifa and BLM, to the destruction of the property of her own constituents,

But the Feds CAN protect Federal property.

It has been going on nightly for weeks,

ragingloli's avatar

It is time for the protesters to make use of their second amendment rights, arm themselves to the teeth, and fight back against the tyranny with lethal force.

ragingloli's avatar

Sic Semper Tyrannis.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Peaceful protests are protected. Taking up arms against law enforcement/ military is revolution.
I’ve been told here and elsewhere, by anti-2A many times how ignorant the Right would be to believe they can stand against our military. We’ve been chastised for owning, stockpiling and making our own bullets or having AK’s etc…
So which is it?
So interesting watching hypocrisy in action by party lines. If this was the Alt Right during Obama’s term ya’ll would be screaming for mass murder. Smh.

ragingloli's avatar

And you would be cheering, as would all the militias.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Jeruba 4 of 5 people recover with only mild symptoms. You could have googled that in five seconds haha!

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Cheering American deaths or suppression of Free Speech is not what patriotism is about.

ragingloli's avatar

So you agree that the protesters are true patriots.

Yellowdog's avatar

They are violent, self-proclaimed Marxist revolutionaries, well armed and well funded,
Their objective is burning down and tearing down our history and civilization.
They are doing it out in the open, in plain sight, and make no bones about it.

Stop playing like this is a game.

ragingloli's avatar

No, they are not.
Cease your vile demagoguery.
And well armed? They have umbrellas, home-made shields, and fucking leaf blowers.
Whereas the trump gestapo is kitted out in fully tactical gear.

Yellowdog's avatar

How are so many children and bystanders getting shot, then?

How are buildings being firebombed?

How are police being beaten to death with bricks, clubs, and frozen bottles?

And, what would be America’s reason for wanting to stop peaceful protesters with the Feds?

You’re not convincing anyone.

Yellowdog's avatar

They don’t identify themselves as Boogaloos. They identify themselves as Black Lives Matter, and hold up signs saying to defund or abolish the police.

(Although it is true, come to think of it, that they do indeed kill mostly African Americans and destroy black businesses and communities… ).

ragingloli's avatar

It is a well known fact that most of the violence is instigated by the cops themselves, and right wing agitators that have infiltrated the crowd.
Look it up.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Yellowdog You’ll never convince anyone here. They see the same videos we do. Cops cowering and backing down or bleeding, hands tied by their Dem leaders.

@ragingloli I think the definition of ‘peaceful protests’ is the point of contention.

ragingloli's avatar

We all have seen the videos of cops violently attacking peaceful protesters.
People are fighting back now, just like in Hong Kong. And they even had archers.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli I said all along it would be another Civil War, no one I know is surprised. Why do you think patriots on the Right are watching and waiting?

ragingloli's avatar

Because they are hypocrites, who were all ready to go when the partial covid lockdown happened.
Even tried to storm the michigan capitol heavily armed with actual weapons.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/michigan-protests-coronavirus-lockdown-armed-capitol

But people protesting cops murdering black people? They are all “marxist antifa terrorists” who deserve to be rounded up and shot.

ragingloli's avatar

And while we are at it:
The so called “right wing patriots” were all to eager to get into an armed stand-off with cops over a farmer who was sanctioned for having his cattle graze on federal land.

But not a peep over the “patriot act”.
No objections to the TSA.
Masturbated over people getting tortured in Abu Ghuraib and Guantanamo.
Calling Snowden who exposed the NSA spying on citizens, a traitor.
Making excuses for child concentration camps.
In full on denial over racist cops murdering black people.
Cheering on DHS secret police snatching people off the streets.

Remember the self proclaimed “oath keepers” forming in 2001 after Bush passed the patriot act?
Of course you do not, because they formed in 2008 after a black man was elected president.

These “freedom loving patriots” do not give a flying shit about freedom. They are racists, white supremacists, with fantasies about reestablishing their kind of regressive order, namely people not like them under their boot.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Nothing I’ve seen or read supports your theory that anyone is interfering in ‘peaceful protests’. In fact, even the Proud Boys released a statement supporting peaceful protests and condemning violence. But they are meeting violence with violence, and that’s on them. None of us voted on that or held a meeting to agree that was the best way to handle things.

As far as your old article about Covid protests, even that specifically mentions extremist anti-govt groups, not organized Rep groups. “Trump supporters carrying signs” is a very broad brush. I know a lot of Reps and none were there…haha!

The Patriot Act was passed with bi-partisan support if you care to look up the actual votes. And renewed, too. https://newrepublic.com/article/155793/hell-democrats-just-extend-patriot-act

The Oath Keepers are another anti-government group, not affiliated with the GOP.

Maybe if you can’t do your research to understand different factions here, you should stick to German politics. I’m not explaining or defending every aspect, group or vote to help you understand American politics better.

You understand that’s like Americans thinking your entire country supported the genocide of the Jews right? Nonsense.

ragingloli's avatar

See, that is why I can not take the lot of you serious, one bit.
These are all “right wing patriots”, as touted by you.
Your complain about “painting everything with the same brush”, but when yellow dog called all the protesters marxist antifa revolutionaries, you stayed silent.

Coolhandluke's avatar

All of you that support this ignorant protesting and rioting: I wish it would come to your front door. If they beat your family senseless or to death maybe you’d care a little less about them. Maybe if they burned YOUR business or beat up your grandfather in a wheel chair you’d care less about what happens to them. They should be dealt with swiftly by any force that can stop them and directed by any person that has the backbone to do it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, that’s kind of the whole concept behind Free Speech in America. He could be right for all I know.

All I see is unidentified people in black hiding under umbrella’s and throwing rocks at the people who swore to protect them and aren’t fighting back. I’m surprised any of them stay on that job quite frankly.

ragingloli's avatar

@KNOWITALL
“All I see is unidentified people in black hiding under umbrella’s and throwing rocks at the people who swore to protect them and aren’t fighting back.”
They are wearing that in response to constantly being gassed by the pigs.
You know that.
Show some honesty.

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KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Killer Mike is the son of a cop, a black leader and we have many black cops too. There isnt an easy solution as you seem to think.
We are all Americans. All cops arent bad thats where you lose a lot of us with your rhetoric.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/artists/killer-mike-conundrum-can-gun-loving-cops-son-unite-america/

ragingloli's avatar

Want to prove that “not all cops are bad”?
Have those mythical “good cops” start purging themselves of all the bad cops, instead of protecting and covering for them, or turning a blind eye.
They have the power to do so.

ragingloli's avatar

Have you read that executive order?
I have, and it is a flaccid joke that will change absolutely nothing.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Its a partisan stand off as usual. Two Dems and one Independent were on board.
Thats politics now, sadly.

Jaxk's avatar

Picture yourself at your place of business or at home and a goup of a thousand or so comes marching down the street. You go outside to try and reason with them and pass you by. How comforting would it be to have them tell you not to worry because most of them won’t get violent.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Jaxk And the Left says its Alt Right extremists sabotaging while the Right blames groups like Antifa or non-political looters. Sigh…

Yellowdog's avatar

I can only get into this discussion occasionally, From my last post, @ragingloli, I see no evidence that a group called “Bungaloos” (if some such group even exists) would be the secret force behind or in the Black Lives Matter / Antifa riots..

A right-wing group would not be tearing down statues of Christopher Columbus, Abraham Lincoln, Fredrick Douglass, and calling anti-slavery abolitionists racists, Nor would a right-wing group be carrying the message and demands-list of Black Lives Matter.

I am not saying that your Bungaloos group doesn’t exist—but it seems odd that they would be fighting real groups on the political right, with frozen bottles and bricks. When I first heard of Bungaloos, it was when News commentators were saying that the destruction of buildings and black businesses and homes was ‘right wingers’ or a mix of left-and-right wing groups’.

One more thing, the American government, including the POTUS, is not ‘right wing’. Any official action is bipartisan. Americans, including minorities, are Americans, and are the victims of this assault on their homes, businesses, children, and lives. Right Wingers as you describe would not be concerned about abolitionalists and the emancipation.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Yellowdog Boogaloo Boys….another extremist group.

Yellowdog's avatar

That’s not the singer’s vocie I remember, however. This is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZJWiSb-3Uc

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli You are well dipped in the liberal goo. Maybe you should open your eyes a little rather than continuing to spew hatred over things you know nothing about. Many of the protests going on are indeed violent. If they weren’t, then how does this mother end up losing her son in a protester-only zone? He was shot and killed. Since they have demonstrated violence against any officials that enter the zone, the paramedics were not going in until they had police protection. Of course, the police have been told to stand down by the city leadership. So a 19 year old gets shot, cannot get medical attention, and the shooter gets away scot-free. But you know…all these peaceful protesters…they never carry guns, or set up protection services. violence would never be covered by the liberal media with honesty. violent actions against people that just drive near the barriers could end up killing people including children. But that can’t be true. I mean that would mean that the liberal narrative was just wrong. It would mean that basically everything you have tried to spew is just fake news!.

Yellowdog's avatar

Uh, in Hong Kong, the Chinese are the communist / socialist dictators who are obliterating the formerly free capitalists,

Covertly, In the U.S. the Communist / Socialists are indeed the ones doing the pillage, arson, and mayhem—but they are NOT the U.S. government, which is capitalist, and represents the American people and their property and first responders.

Yellowdog's avatar

We don’t want a China-style socialist dictatorship over the States, @ragingloli— that’s precisely why we oppose socialism and the mayhem in the streets, attempting (with results) to tear down our government, law enforcement, history, monuments, etc. and why we oppose Biden and any other politician or big business (e.g. Nike) or organization with ties to China, Look EXACTLY at Hong Kong if you need an example as to why,

It’s not a good example to make your point—to show what communists do to a free society. There OR in our own cities

ragingloli's avatar

The protesters are not communists or socialists, but nice to see you fully bought the propaganda from the fascist drumpf regime.
Neither is China communist. The country is hyper capitalist.

” attempting (with results) to tear down our government, law enforcement, history, monuments, etc.”

That is exactly what China is accusing the Hong Kong protesters of, and why they passed their “security law”, which makes any pro-democratic activity illegal.

And that is not what the protesters want. They want accountability and consequences for murderous cops, and an end to the systemic racism pervading the “justice system”.

It is time for you to finally admit that you are a fascist.

ragingloli's avatar

“Federal agents shot me in the face last night while I was covering the Black Lives Matter protests in Portland. It should be obvious to everyone by now that BIPOC face a higher risk of violence at the hands of police than I do. I’ll never know what it’s like not to be white but protests do provide an interesting moment when white privilege does not fully protect us. Below I explain what happened. Friends feel free to share. Media, do not repost without permission.

To everyone who believes that the only people who get hurt at protests are those who have been violent, that’s wrong. To those who think it is only “other people” who are not like you, that is also wrong. I am a professional journalist, a father-to-be, I run a business, I create jobs for other people, I’m a landlord, a neighbor, a friend, and I want to live in a world where black people and all BIPOC feel the freedom I normally do. I hope to help out by telling stories and bearing witness.

Last night (7/26) I was shooting photos from the center of the crowd when federal agents suddenly became more aggressive, firing lots of teargas and impact munitions into the large group of people. I retreated with the group, stumbling through the park across the street in clouds of tear gas. When I reached 4th street and got out of the thickest teargas, I stopped to figure out my next step. A line of federal agents (and possibly PPB) walked through the teargas cloud on Salmon toward the very dispersed group of people around me. We walked quickly away on Salmon Street following dispersal orders. There was suddenly a barrage of impact munitions fired around me so I ducked behind a car. Protesters in the street were positioned behind shields being pelted with pepper balls, foam balls, and maybe some sort of paintball and/or rubber bullets. I captured a few images and waited. Once the shooting stopped, I used the moment to try to get a safe distance from the advancing federal agents. I walked swiftly, hands and camera in the air, ducked behind a tree some distance down the block, and turned to see if I was far enough away to be safe. As I turned, I was pelted with what I think were pepper balls. One hit the lens of my gas mask on my left eye. The plastic broke, lacerating my eye, eyelid, and cheek. I knelt down to assess and when I realized I could walk and see, I ran to 5th street and began asking folks to help me find a medic. Shortly, 3 medics responded. I took my gas mask and helmet off and one said, “oh my god, that’s bad!” I cannot say enough good things about these medics. I am beyond grateful for their work. But, that reaction wasn’t my favorite part.

In a moment we were in their car on our way to the hospital. Unfortunately, the car was facing down the hill toward the troops. They had advanced and we had to pull forward to leave the street parking. In a moment they were surrounding the car, pointing flashlights and guns at us. I pressed my face close to the window, pointed to my now very bloody face, and yelled “hospital”. The medics slowly back up as the feds shot the vehicle with more impact munitions. No windows were broken. On the way to the hospital, we drove through clouds of teargas so windows stayed shut and the pepper spray on my clothing and bag choked us all. In urgent care, the doctor left the room multiple times as the pepper on me caused her to cough uncontrollably. She wore a respirator to stitch my eye. As I left the hospital near sunrise, another protester was being admitted with the same injury.

I have the option of going to a protest and putting myself at risk of police violence. Or I can choose to stay out of harm’s way. For Black Americans, there is no opting out of the risk of police violence in everyday life. This was incredibly scary and stressful for me and my wife, but we know we only have to experience this once in a while, and when we do it’s often by choice. Many people in our community live with this fear every day. This has to stop, we have to make this change. Black Lives do Matter.”

- Trip Jennings, a journalist & photographer for National Geographic

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli Wow. You are definitely a communist! You are dipped in the flowing kool-aid of the liberals. Here’s a definition of communism that applies:
” A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.” That pretty much defines China. They are about as authoritarian as you can get.
The propaganda from the Chinese news outlets will tell you that the Hong Kong protesters were trying to tear down their government. But I think you need to go back a few steps to get the whole picture. Hong Kong was basically founded by Great Britain during a 100 year period of lease from mainland China. That lease period was up a few years ago and Hong Kong went back to being a Chinese province. However, the Chinese government agreed to let Hong Kong continue to govern themselves and they would not exert their political and military power on them. But then they decided it was time to make all the Hong Kong citizens start abiding by the Chinese rule including all control being in Beijing. So the Hong Kong citizens are protesting because they don’t want China “to tear down our government, law enforcement, history, monuments, etc.” So the authoritarian regime is not Hong Kong or those protesters, it is the Chinese government.
Funny though, I noticed you really didn’t refute all the links I gave in my last post that showed how bizarre your views really are. Guess you know you CAN’T refute them because you know you are just trying to spew the liberal talking points.

ragingloli's avatar

Who are you again?

seawulf575's avatar

Still dodging. You are consistent.

Yellowdog's avatar

If it was the Feds’ (i.e. ‘Storm Troopers’) job to take out the protests / protesters, they would have done so already, and could do so very rapidly. within less than 24 hours.

But there are only a small number of them sufficient to guard the Federal buildings and properties, and they are on the perimeters, and are getting severely injured. Some permanently blinded with lasers or burned severely with molotov cocktails and similar grenades and explosives, or fireworks or projectile weapons.

The Feds are NOT the agressors in this violence.

This is not a civil rights revolution or a protest for one’s rights—it is a proclamated move to burn down and destroy Federal property and law enforcement precincts. Together with the defund-the-police efforts, they want to burn it all down and take over.

Why not listen to what they are actually saying, and watch what they are doing to these cities,rather than call them ‘peaceful’?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Boy that Kool-Aid must be really yummy ^^^^^

Yellowdog's avatar

So, is it the Feds who are burning the cars, vandalizing the buildings, killing and pillaging, blinding their fellow officers with lasers, bombing the Federal buildings?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Just might be because one of the Jellies lives there and said before the Feds showed up all was very peaceful .
I can believe the Feds instigated the violence just so they could move in and crack heads and get the publics attention off Covid 19 that the Trump administration has super failed at getting under control.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Now they’re heading to Detroit per the news. 7.29

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@KNOWITALL is this faze one of martial law??^

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Yes. Per definition, I’d say so.

The real problems will arise when the President (or states) declares martial law or when they invoke Constitutional Clause 15 or 16.

Interesting fact, martial law has been invoked nine times since WWII in regards to segregation.

Just in case you are unfamiliar:
https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/58-the-militia-clauses.html

seawulf575's avatar

Not sure it is phase one of martial law. Sending in people to protect federal property isn’t really martial law. They aren’t military. Martial law, by definition, is temporary military control of a civilian population. This is more like sending in police to re-establish order to the out of control protesters. That isn’t martial law either.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 I was going with this definition. Maybe a temporary emergency where civil forces get their hands tied by civil govt is more like it. I’ll yield to your experience haha!

Did you hear the Chief in Chicago committed suicide? So sad.

Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or suspension of civil law by a government, especially in response to a temporary emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed, or in an occupied territory.

seawulf575's avatar

@KNOWITALL That’s a good definition too. But either way, the federal agents are not military. They are not in a military chain of command. They are more like police. TSA is considered under DHS, as is Border Patrol, Coast Guard, FEMA, Secret Service, and a few others. They are all federal agents that perform functions to establish and maintain law and order. But the military is entirely different. The fact the left wants to call them “storm troopers” doesn’t make them that at all. It’s just another label spread around to try elicit a response from their radical adherents.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 Ahhh, thanks for clearing that difference up!

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Just because a Jelly says it was all peaceful doesn’t mean it was. Peaceful protests do not require rocks and industrial sized fireworks to be thrown/shot through windows of a courthouse. Nor do they require kerosene “water balloons” to go in too until the building catches fire. Does that sound like “peaceful protest” to you? And this sort of crap is going on all over America, courtesy of Antifa with the help/cover of BLM. This article describes more violence. So let me ask: why is it okay for thugs to take over entire city blocks and do whatever they want there? Why don’t the cops just take them back? Oh yeah…because the Democratic leadership of the city support the mayhem.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Do I believe there are instagaters in among the protestors, yup should they be culled out again yup.
Do I believe the majority of protesters are violent UH NO! I think some may get caught up in it and they should be culled out, but to lump them all together gee how judgmental of you, guess you believe all cops should kneel on black peoples necks while they are in handcuffs until they are dead.
These days you are sounding more and more like your orange hair god EVERYTHING is the democrats fault the violence, the protests, Covid19, the sky high death toll due to the virus, nothing is your wonderful Rep/cons fault, even your little up tick that turned into a full blown surge on reopening the economy isn’t the Republicans fault.
You keep saying we Democrats are just haters , that might be better than the full blown Racists you conservatives are turning out to be.
It is your fault these protests have gone on for as long as they have because you (the Conservatives) refuse to say or admit that Black lives do matter, but I guess that is the democrats fault as well?

Yellowdog's avatar

It IS the Democrat’s fault.

Do your homework. Who are the mayors and governors who are standing by or even joining in the riots while their cities burn, private properties are destroyed, and babies dying with bullets, Its DEMOCRAT mayors, governors, and cities. And the unrest that has brewing for many decades, again, was democrat leaders.

Who is offering to end the violence?

Actually, I am glad these sores of cities will soon be gone.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog Why do the inner cities have the problems they have? You can’t just blame Democrats. Republicans have spent a lot of time trying to keep these cities fairly walled off. People fled to the suburbs, tax money left with them, schools were inferior in cities, wages stayed low, crime was more attractive than earning a decent wage, all sorts of problems coming together to keep the inner city and lower income neighborhoods in a bad situation.

Democrats get votes in cities, because they have some empathy for what is happening. Look at Memphis. When I was there the city gave up it’s school charter and the suburbs voted to keep those kids out of their school system. White suburbanites openly said they just didn’t want those parent voting for superintendent of the schools, or whatever school positions are elected. They openly say they don’t want their tax money going to schools for other people’s children, they want their voucher money.

Why would the average black person, or person living in that city, trust a Republican to help them? It’s a high hurdle.

It is so much more complicated than just blaming Democrats or blaming Republicans. It’s a long and complicated history.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie A lot of black people moved to bigger cities for job opportunities in factories where prejudice was overcome with the need for workers.
Then white people started moving out to the suburbs, leaving the cities to the blacks.
Then those factories started closing and what was left?

I’m not going to speak for any minorities about anything, that’s just the history I read in regards to urban populations. And there are quite a few black Republicans as well as Democrats, as well, living in the suburbs at that.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Here’s something other things for you to think about. Just about every major protest has turned violent since George Floyd’s death. So to blame that on a few bad eggs is a bit disingenuous. If it was one or two protests that had people that started vandalizing and rioting and looting and all the rest of the upheaval, you might have a leg to stand on. But that isn’t even the worst part. The worst part is that NONE of the Democrats have denounced the violence. They have not called for peace. They are, in fact, refusing to acknowledge the violence which means they agree with it. Isn’t it funny that when the fighting broke out in Charlottesville VA, the people were up in arms wanting President Trump to denounce the violent members from the right? And when he did, they just lied and said he called them very fine people. But you know what else happened…or rather DIDN’T happen? The Dems did NOT denounce the violence from the left. And now, not only are they NOT denouncing the violence, but they are actively encouraging it and stopping the police from taking action. Now I ask you…how is that good for society…to let a mob rule?

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL I agree with most of what you wrote. I’m not sure prejudices were completely overcome, but overall I agree that happened in some cities.

There are poor white cities and poor predominantly Black cities. In both the children are at a disadvantage. People notice the Black cities because there is confirmation bias going on. Would you agree?

Large cities, even the very prosperous ones, you find a lot of Democrats because their world is diverse, and Republicans (the party) were not supporting equality issues. In NYC, as an example, a lot of the local politicians are liberal on social issues, so New Yorkers do sometimes elect Republicans. Giuliani, Bloomberg, they were pro-choice, and pro gay rights. Some people might not count Bloomberg as a Republican, which I agree, he became a Republican to run for office, but he was conservative in fiscal issues, education, some others.

Also, it’s an identity thing, do you see yourself in the candidate and in your peers who associate with a party. When I lived in the South it was very divided, Black people were Democrats and White people were republicans in a big way. Not 100%, but it felt very divided. In places like Florida not the case. Hispanics are more split, white people are split, Europeans, Blacks, you can’t assume anything about political party when you meet someone.

Like I said, I think it’s very complicated. Both of us could cherry pick examples to try to prove a point. I’d probably agree with you on a lot of the examples.

The city of Miami and the county is run by Republican mayors and we have a Republican Governor and we are having a covid problem there, but Republicans only point to Democratically run cities as being Covid problems. Everyone is cherry picking. We need to start thinking one nation and work together to conquer the big problems of our times.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Every city is different, sure. I don’t think I have enough personal experience living in big urban centers to discuss it. (Thank God!)

Frankly I’m not hopeful that either party is capable of backing down gracefully at this point. We shall see.

Yellowdog's avatar

@JLeslie Actually, the city schools were under Federal investigation for fraud, and had grossly mismanaged funds, often for private parties and the like.

So they gave up their charter—and then usurped the county schools, unseating many highly-qualified leaders and employees. It was a very ugly, mocking, hostile takeover.

The Shelby County schools went from being the highest rated in the state to the lowest in just two years.

The towns of Germantown, Collierville, Bartlett, Arlington, Lakeland, and Millington had to pay very high legal fees and then hundreds of millions more to buy back the buildings and equipment they had built or purchased, from the county, and still can lose them under any of many conditions. But they DID get the right to establish municipal schools which are, once again, the highest rated in Tennessee, despite having half the budget per student.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog I lived in Lakeland at the time. I had neighbors worried about busing. There isn’t going to be busing from Memphis proper out to Arlington high school. Maybe they were worried about Cordova? All that money, maybe they could have just tried to improve the whole school system. They didn’t even try, they voted on it very quickly. I left shortly after. I guess property taxes maybe had to be increased? They had voted for sales tax to go up, but Lakeland has very little commercial, very little retail sales.

Status quo. Systemic.

You know better than me how it is currently, but when the cities voted to have their own school districts it essentially hearts things stayed the same for the inner city, didn’t it?

I was a white woman in the suburbs, I know what the white people out there were saying. Maybe Black people in the suburbs were saying the same, I really don’t know. I didn’t have Black friends when I lived there. Coworkers yes, chatting at parties and the gym yes, but never developed a real friendship while living there.

Yellowdog's avatar

Its reallynot about bussing. Its about mismanagement.

But cities like Bartlett and Germantown can certainly be bussed, out of sheer spite.

In 1982, I was a senior at Craigmont High School, which was bussed. The thing about it is, Craigmont, like all of Raleigh, had been successfully integrated since 1974, when Raleigh was annexed by Memphis. My high school was about 54% black, 40% white.

The white students (all but about 4%) were bused to some very bad schools in the inner city and/or as far away as 14 miles—sometime requiring several hour bus rides. As a result, no new families moved into the area, and only bad inner city gang-types were bussed in—this was bad even for the black students who were already attending these schools.

No one can tell me that this was done for reasons other than spite. I was a student at my high-school radio station, WQOX, at the time—and covered the school board meetings. The school board, both black and white members, voted to bus these schools to ‘punish’ them (for what is unguessible).

In any case, Raleigh is a blight now—scraped away pavement, weeds, drug-infested apartments. The schools are very, very bad. Bartlett, which borders Ralegih, is about 30% African American but being one of those municipalities that cares about all its students, had to form its own municipal school system, and is a very good area with some of the best schools.

I have no doubt that those who were given the reigns of the Shelby County schools would not do to Bartlett in 2014 what people of a similar mindset did to Raleigh in 1982.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog I don’t see why there would be any busing at all now. The way I remember it the Supreme Court more than once in the 2000’s ruled against it, saying it was no longer necessary. Unless, Shelby County or the State of TN still has some sort of law.

Even so, I heard busing a lot. I agree mismanagement was an issue also, that’s where the voting came in. People were afraid the city voters would put in bad managers like they had in Memphis.

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