General Question

crazyguy's avatar

Is Trump doing better with the black vote than he did in 2016?

Asked by crazyguy (685points) 4 weeks ago

In 2016, Clinton got about 85% of the black vote. Current polling shows Trump with 32% of the Black vote. Is that correct? If so, does Biden have any chance?

See https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/514174-poll-trump-approval-rises-among-black-hispanic-voters

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

58 Answers

elbanditoroso's avatar

It’s also somewhat insulting to describe “the black vote” as if all blacks were alike and voted the same way.

Is there a white vote that is dependable?

That said, @crazyguy , I must ask – were you paid by the republicans to post that? Or the russians?

Blackberry's avatar

I’ll die before I ever vote for an American Republican. Republicans wouldn’t even vote for Jesus if he ran. They’d probably assassinate him.

crazyguy's avatar

There is no need to get in a huff. I posted what I thought is a legitimate link, which confused the hell out of me. What I get back is vitriol. Is that the new Democratic party?

MrGrimm888's avatar

If polls were dependable, Trump would have lost in 2016….

raum's avatar

The Hill is a generally credible source. Underestimating Trump isn’t going to do us any favors.

Yellowdog's avatar

About half the blacks I know are voting for Trump, but I don’t think that ratio pans out everywhere.

rebbel's avatar

“The blacks”
...............

janbb's avatar

I distrust any polling at this point and don’t pay much attention to it. We’ll see what we see.

Yellowdog's avatar

@rebbel Do they no longer call themselves blacks?

What, then, is referred to in ‘black lives matter’?

‘The Black Vote” is the topic of this question. Wake up.

hmmmmmm's avatar

“The blacks lives matter” (or TBLM)

Yellowdog's avatar

If you say, “Blacks’ lives matter” you’ll be accused of saying ‘slaves’ so that’s no good.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^I find that, a false analogy. “Black,” may not be the most acceptable term. But. It doesn’t mean “slaves.”

And by the way. All.slave’s lives, mattered too….

Response moderated (Spam)
JLeslie's avatar

These types of accusations is what helps Trump win in my opinion. “Black vote“ is even used by academics as a generalization about the direction that vote typically votes. We know not every person who is Black votes that way. Being offended or thinking a person who uses the term is somehow racist is really not helpful. It’s not unusual to talk about the Jewish vote, Evangelical vote, Hispanic vote, liberals say it just as much as conservatives.

The Black vote IS the topic of the question.

I think it is a very small percentage of Black people who will vote for Trump. I think the conservatives are kidding themselves. They are parading their Black supporters so it gives the impression there is a lot of support, but I really don’t think it’s there. I personally know one Black person who will vote for Trump, and when he posts on Facebook about politics, which is a lot over the last 4 years, he gets a long string of Black Facebook friends (according to their photo) who disagree with him. He has lived in MI, MD, and TN, and most of his friends seem to be from those places. One other Black person I knew on social media was politically conservative because of religion, I think BLM could possibly change his vote though.

I think some Black men maybe feel powerful choosing to be with Trump. Being part of what they perceive as some sort of elite group. I doubt that works well for Black women.

crazyguy's avatar

Thanks JL. When I said Black Vote, I did not mean a monolithic vote equivalent to the total number of African Americans voting. I thought also that Trump would garner just a small percentage of African American votes. Yet his approval rating among African Americans is higher than I expected, to my big surprise.

You say that BLM could possibly sway a Black person to switch his vote away from Trump. Funny, I think that BLM is the wild card that Trump needed to win in 2020. They came along at just the right time…

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I think BLM cane along at just the right time for crazy groups like Q and other alt-right and foreign bots to flood social media with messaging about BLM that wind up helping Trump. Some of it is total bullshit, but nevertheless it is sufficiently making conservatives afraid. The messaging is completely different depending on what you listen to. Most Democrats are clueless about BLM being characterized as a Marxist movement to change America. Most conservatives seem to not believe that 99.9% of the protesters are out there simply for equality and not some sort of political plan to change the government.

crazyguy's avatar

JL, Wow, that is reassuring. Only 0.1% of 15–26 million protesters out there were after your blood! That was ONLY 15–26 THOUSAND. Of course that was in the whole country; so, in your particular neighborhood, it was perhaps just a handful.

How many does it take to kill you?

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy What blood? Plus, the percentage is probably even lower, I just used a number barely short of 100%, because nothing is 100%. There are some political people out there in the crowds who are probably extremists, and I am not even counting rioters and looters.

We have probably .6% of people dying from covid who catch it and a lot of Republicans seem to think that is nothing. Let’s see, 50% of the country catches covid, which isn’t even herd immunity, but that is what a lot of what I see across my social media by many Republicans and that would be 165,000,000 sick and that’s 990,000 DEAD, Let’s say it is only .3%. Still a lot of people dying. Let’s say it is only 20% of the population in a year so 396,000 dead if my math is right at the .6%. at .3% it’s 198,000, but we are nearing 200,000 already, so we know we will be higher than that for a 12 month cycle, even accounting for some deaths being shifted after the fact as not a covid death. That is not a typical flu year.

I am not assuming you are saying these dismissive things about covid and not doing the math, I am just saying a lot of Republicans do not do the math. I use THEIR numbers and they really have no answer when I actually run the math.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie Ask Senator Paul Rand and his wife what blood. I am a little confused as to why you are bringing covid-19 into this thread.

The exact percentage and the exact number of criminals in the crowd is unimportant; as long as you admit there are some. I remember my college days when I was protesting against the Vietnam-Cambodia-Laos war and yelling at the “fascist pigs”. I hate to think wht might have happened if one of those “pigs” fell into our hands.

I agree with you that covid-19 is a serious problem. Where you and I may disagree is that the shutdown ALSO was a serious problem.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I won’t go down the shutdown tangent on this Q, but I never was in favor of the entire country shutting down.

Of course there are some criminals in the crowds of protests. They are not to be confused with genuine protesters who simply want equality and not to be brutalized and abused.

Put the criminals in jail, confiscate their computers, get to the ring leaders, shut it down! This is FBI level in my opinion.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie The so-called genuine protesters make it possible for the criminals to do their thing. Therefore, since we have already heard the message of the protesters, why not stop the protests cold? In fact, let me go one step further; who exactly are they protesting against, since the whole country is inclined to agree that changes are needed?

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I have suggested the same thing. Even though I can see both sides as to why to stop and why to continue.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie: You say you can see some reason to continue protesting? Please explain what the potential benefits are; I’ll list out the disadvantages:

1. The protests are waking up the Silent Majority, for whom personal safety is a primary concern.
2. The protests are providing cover for the criminal elements.
3. The protests demonstrate the lack of respect for law and order.
4. The protests provide cover for tearing down our history, good and bad.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@crazyguy

1) Not so quiet MINORITY want to kill anyone not a Fright Winger

2) Protests not set-up for criminal elements . . .

3) Law and order show a lack of respect for humans especially people of color

4) Trump is undermining the US and history (Putin paid for it) ! ! ! !

So . . . . . . . . .

crazyguy's avatar

@Tropical_Willie

Don’t you think the protests were aimed at a government that understands the need for change? A government that proceeded post-haste to address the killing of George Floyd?

You say “Protests not set-up for criminal elements ” But the fact remains that the protests are being used by the criminal elements.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy This is America. The right to assemble, to protest, is an essential and important right!
People were not listening when calm talk was being used.

The Republicans (not all of them but a lot) took issue with the non -violent and non-disruptive taking off a knee at a sports event and twisted that into hating veterans and America. Total fucking bullshit. They wouldn’t listen so now you have protests.

Protesting will stop when Americans stop listening to propaganda, start listening to the pain of their fellow man, stop being so frightened, stop being so easily offended, and start using golden rule.

JLeslie's avatar

The more I think about my answer, the more it seems to me that the political right works hard shhhhh the voices of the people not being heard. Imagine if when players took the knee the government had said, “let’s look into what they are protesting.” Instead our leadership said, “shut these people down, we don’t want to listen to them, mark them as traitors.” There has been a systematic attempt to SHHHHH the voices who are disgruntled.

Now, are we going to say to people protesting in the streets “stop, it is too disruptive and people are getting hurt.” We KNOW people on the right are purposely causing chaos to SHHHHH the protestors. Do we let them do that? Football players were fired. Demonstrators have been hurt and killed. Which side is going to say uncle first? When the George Floyd protests started I had people on my facebook saying, “follow the plan, the fall of the cabal.” They are crazy and siding with terrorists. They want the chaos. They have it all backwards though. They are going to bring their biggest fears to life. Self fulfilling prophecy.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie

I realize that the protesters have a right too protest peacefully. I am not certain that civil disobedience is a right or just a concession by Democratic Mayors and Governors.

However, it is also constitutional to declare a protest rally an unlawful gathering and arrest people who refuse to leave. There are also consequences for “civil disobedience”. See https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-free-speech-protests-demonstrations

BLM seems to think that looting can be justified as “reparations”. See https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/blm-organizer-who-called-looting-reparations-doubles-down/

I think our Democratic Mayors and Governors have to think about this long and hard.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie

It sounds to me like you are a BLM sympathizer, just as I believe BLM is nothing but a cover for looting.

The US is founded as an adversarial country, where anybody with an axe to grind is heard if s/he can yell loudly enough. Unfortunately, a single person can never yell loudly enough; so I fully understand the need for organized marches and demonstrations. However, it is up to the organizers of such protests to determine when they are doing more harm than good. I honestly think we reached that point weeks, if not months, ago.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy There is no doubt that looters are using the protests as cover. I’m completely in favor of arresting all looters, and anyone who is violent or vandalizing. They are being arrested. Democratic Mayors are not ok with their curt being destroyed, that’s crazy talk. They let the fires burn in Minneapolis, because they knew there was too much upset too try to stop that. I’m not ok with that fire either, but the pain done to that community was just too much to bear. There was EVIDENCE, VIDEO, WITNESSES, and they didn’t immediately arrest the cops. It wasn’t like they needed to do an investigation to narrow down suspects. There was a Q here about the fires and destruction in Minneapolis, and even then I was against that behavior.

I was one of the few here who supported curfews on the protests. Plenty of Democrats were freaking out about curfews. I argued we need to give cops a break. They need to be allowed to sleep. Curfews were put in place for safety. Some of the curfews seemed too early, but that can be addressed. I live in Florida, we have curfews all the time, and they are always listed as soon as they are not needed anymore.

I usually would argue that protests need permits to protect protesters, but these protests were ongoing and officials knew what was happening even without permits it was so massive and so consistent for a while.

I’ll also throw in I thought immediately the slogan Defund the Police was horrible.

Don’t be thinking I’m so BLM that I blindly follow, and just repeat whatever MSNBC is saying. You have the wrong girl.

Are you willing to agree WS is also taking advantage of these protests and doing some of the looting and rioting?

If Trump had just said that out loud instead of only blaming ANTIFA, a lot of this would not be happening still. He won’t speak against WS and Q. That is part of what scares the rest of America to death. He doesn’t do it, and most Republicans are loathe to do it too, there are a few out there thankfully who have broken ranks. How about you?

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie

The viseos I have seen of looting shows what seems to be all black perpetrators. So unless some blacks are WS…

If I thought for a moment that WS is jumping in the fray and taking advantage of it, I would call them out. But, based on what I have seen so far, I do not think they are engaging in any of the acts the left wants to assign to them.

I agree with you that the “apparent” provocation in the case of George Floyd was massive. It seemed pretty obvious that the cops “murdered” George Floyd. However, I have heard subsequent reports about Floyd’s drug level in his blood and breathing difficulties BEFORE the encounter with the cops, that I am starting to wonder.

I watched the Atlanta shooting, and, in my mind, that shooting was 100% justified.

I think the protests have outlived their usefulness and should now cease.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy George Floyd was kept down on the ground for EIGHT MINUTES! Cops are not the judge and jury. If they wanted to arrest him, which seems crazy to me for a counterfeit bill, all they had to do was put him in the police car.

I agree the Black people looting are not WS, but we also know people white people were going into the protests and riling up crowds when the crowds had been calm. White people running into where protests were happening and smashing windows and rioting. Did I write in this Q what a Republican jelly copy pasted for use when the protests had first started up? WS giving guidance on when and where to riot, and how to not get caught? I can’t remember what I wrote where. They are like ISIS. Cells all over the country wreaking havoc.

I willing say they are Black people looting and taking advantage. I don’t call them protesters, they are looters and rioters and vandals. There are ALSO WS rioting, and maybe you are unaware because you watch mostly Fox News, but I don’t want to assume.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie My morning starts on CNN.COM. I’ll read almost any story that is not obviously a Trump hit. I do not find many to read. This morning, for instance, I read the one about robot dogs in the military.

Then I check out Fox News, reading only the stories that are NOT obviously pandering. This morning I read just one: Trump’s nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize for the Israel-UAE deal.

The protests, which started out for a reason, have now evolved into a platform for violence and looting. I have no idea if WS is taking advantage or not; do you have a link based on evidence?

I do know BLM is involved because some of them think it is their right (reparations!) and that the looted merchants have insurance.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy Like I said, I’ve suggested myself the protests maybe should stop to stop giving cover to rioters, but I’m just so conflicted about letting them quiet protesters this way.

Here are some links:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/22/who-caused-violence-protests-its-not-antifa/%3foutputType=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/man-helped-ignite-george-floyd-riots-identified-white/story%3fid=72051536

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/authorities-suspect-white-supremacists-and-far-left-extremists-are-behind-violence-at-protests/#x

Like I said I had Q people on my Facebook saying the rioting was a master plan. I have quite a bit of Q in my area.

Below is what one of our Republican jellies wrote on another Q about WS rioting in the protests:

Not quite but it’s more of a ‘how to’ not get caught. There are a ton of pages and hashtags based on geographical locations, too. I’d call it tacit approval, as pics are posted on the same accounts of people standing on police cars, etc…

_I can’t link as it shows my personal profile unfortunately.
One post is showing a picture of a purported WS at a protest saying “Fire this piece of shit into the sun.”_

The actual recommendation is to cover any tattoos or distinguishing marks that may get you identified.

Another says ‘Some of ya’ll aren’t ready to go into violent protests and I think you should prepare better. Masks, glasses, gloves, hoodies, sneakers, backpack, washcloth, cellular data OFF.’

Another “Delete all protest photos off social media, your phone, your cloud. Do it now!”

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Actually some of those I sent but they were not in regard to WS rioting, they were in regard to social media posts on Insta and other formats to protesters specifically on how not to get identified and caught.

That being said, there are some proven WS inciting violence.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-helped-ignite-george-floyd-riots-identified-white/story?id=72051536

Acceleration theory appears to be legit, too.
Accelerationism is the idea that white supremacists should try to increase civil disorder — accelerate it — in order to foster polarization that will tear apart the current political order. The System (usually capitalized), they believe, has only a finite number of collaborators and lackeys to prop it up. Accelerationists hope to set off a series of chain reactions, with violence fomenting violence, and in the ensuing cycle more and more people join the fray. When confronted with extremes, so the theory goes, those in the middle will be forced off the fence and go to the side of the white supremacists. If violence can be increased sufficiently, the System will run out of lackeys and collapse, and the race war will commence.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/06/02/riots-white-supremacy-and-accelerationism/

longgone's avatar

@crazyguy “Therefore, since we have already heard the message of the protesters, why not stop the protests cold?”

Maybe being told “your message has been heard” just doesn’t feel that reassuring anymore. Because you’ve been told for decades, but your loved ones are still getting murdered.

MrGrimm888's avatar

The protests will have “outlived their usefulness,” when serious change is seen.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm888 So after eight years of Obama, our first black President, and no systematic change for the better, somehow both parties think an old white guy may get it done? #skeptical

chyna's avatar

^trump or Biden? They are both old white guys.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@chyna That’s my point, both parties candidates are still old white guys with old white guy notions on race, in my opinion.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Ok, thanks, I am glad you saw this so you could correct what I wrote.

I read about the same idea of ramping of the riots to create more of a division. I think that is part of the Fall of the Cabal strategy or something. It supports exactly what I have been saying for years, fear is being used by both sides to divide us and divided we fall.

What do you think is the final goal of the WS or even the left wing extremists? Do you think NeoNazi types really think they can finish Hitler’s fantasy and create a white country? Many of them are libertarians from what I can gather, so are they looking for no government? Hitler was a controlling nut job. He certainly was not smaller government.

The extreme left I am not sure either. I really believe 99% of Black people just want equality, but there are certainly some extreme leftists out there, I don’t think it is about race really for them, that is a subset of what they are looking for.

People are being led astray.

I have noticed facebook has significantly less Q messaging now. They are removing a lot of it I guess.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@KNOWITALL . You have a good grasp, on my politics. That’s why I don’t vote.

But. You have to have the sand, to say, Trump is making it worse. He’s increasing division, and empowering racists.

crazyguy's avatar

@longgone In response to

”...your loved ones are still getting murdered.”

Actually the number of unarmed blacks murdered by police is a very tiny percentage of those murdered in the ‘hood.

crazyguy's avatar

@MrGrimm888 In response to

“The protests will have “outlived their usefulness,” when serious change is seen.”

I agree with remarks by Chyna and Knowitall. I’d just like to add there is NO WAY to legislate human behavior. You can outlaw certain actions, but that just eliminates overt racism. Racism lurking in people’s hearts is much harder to eliminate. Actually it is fair to ask if it is systemic racism at all – it is just a preference for your own.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie Your first two links did not work. The third calls out violence by WS as well as “other radical groups”. I am certain WS is tapping into the unrest, which they see as an opportunity to further their agenda.

Democratic government of affected cities and states need to stop the protests FIRMLY in order to protect businesses from both extremes of the political spectrum.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I truly don’t think he is. I’ve never met a WS who supported Jews and Israel like he does.
What you have to understand is that the longer this goes on, the more the WS will act out, recruit and teach another generation to hate. It’s a double-edged sword.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@KNOWITALL . Your point would be better made, Jews, and other groups, where being murdered by the police.
But. I understand your opinion.

I feel that there is is a general misunderstanding, of white LEOs, and the black population.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Trump isn’t the police and he signed a police reform in June, not that anyone seemed to care or acknowledge it. If it’s so damn easy why didn’t Obama or any other president fix it before now?
I get where you’re coming from, too, brudda, but understand I got sand for days, but I won’t be coerced into saying anything I don’t believe.

Yellowdog's avatar

I would like to know more about this Trump empowering racists. That’s quite a charge if you are serious, @MrGrimm888 You make this charge often, as do several on this site.

Some are making the charge that because the United Arab Emirates and the Israelis have some peace deal by Trump that excludes Palestinians is racist, But that’s quite a stretch.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

He a bigot and a racist. He and Fred Trump Sr. were brought up on Equal Housing charges. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html

MrGrimm888's avatar

@KNOWITALL , and @Yellowdog .
Trump banned hundreds of millions of people (mostly Muslims, and people of color, ) from even being able to visit the US.
He vilified millions more, by his rhetoric about immigrants from the southern border, and wants to build a wall, to keep brown people out.
In addition. He wants to deport over 11 million brown people who already live in the US.
He also claims that adding affordable housing (which will largely help people of color, ) will “destroy the suburbs.” In other words, non-white people living in the suburbs, will destroy the ‘burbs.
He wants to take away the ACA, which also predominantly helps people of color.
He has a LOT of WS, in his base. But. Rarely speaks against them.
He spends most of his time vilifying the BLM protesters, and trying to force them to stop protesting. He has implemented a lot of resources, to shut them down. Including using secret police, to round them up, violating the constitution.
Where are the secret police, rounding up white supremacists?
He totally screwed the country, with the pandemic, which also happens to affect black people, more than any other race.
He, and the GOP, are hard at work reducing unemployment payment. Another thing that is hurting brown people the most.
He was a strong supporter of the ridiculous Obama “birther” conspiracy. Now. He is backing the same BS, against Harris.

I could go on, all day, on why/how, he is encouraging racism, and empowering the racists…..

He, and seemingly his supporters, want a white/christian America….

I cannot see, a different observation….

crazyguy's avatar

@MrGrimm888 In response to your long comment to Knowitall and Yellowdog, let me just make a few points:

1. He did, and is still doing, all of the things you describe. My problems are with the motives that you assign, and also the effects.

2. For instance, you say “He wants to deport over 11 million brown people” when in reality he wants to deport all people who are in this country illegally – do you see a difference between your statement and what Trump actually said?

3. I used to be a real estate broker in a few years of my life. I was ALWAYS taught that every parcel of land deserves its “highest and best use”. If that use turns out to be ‘affordable housing’, by all means go for it. However, in the ‘burbs that is not generally the case. Therefore, such housing has to be built either by the government or by private builders with tax or other incentives. I think economic status is more essential to living in the ‘burbs than color. I am not white, but have lived in ‘burbs for the last 40 years. How many brown/black people live close to Biden and Harris?

4. The ACA is a misnomer. It makes care “affordable” by transferring payment responsibility to the government, which is all of us. Another way it made care affordable was by requiring young healthy people to buy insurance they would never need. In other words they were chipping in through their insurance premiums AND their taxes. I am so glad the Individual Mandate is gone.

I think you get my drift.

Response moderated (Off-Topic)
Response moderated (Off-Topic)
Response moderated (Off-Topic)

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.

This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther