General Question

elbanditoroso's avatar

If Texas governor Abbott proceeds with his plan to secede from the rest of the US, will Texas residents still get Medicare and Social Security?

Asked by elbanditoroso (33061points) 3 weeks ago

Sort of a flaw in his secession theory, because Texas people won’t stand for losing their government money.

If Texas does secede, and the US Government is paying Social Security residents in Texas, will taxes go down?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

55 Answers

Blackwater_Park's avatar

This can’t happen, it’s B.S. and, they would lose all that, yes.

canidmajor's avatar

Oh, please. This comes up every decade or so, lots of bluster from Texas threatening to secede. Texas is a very resource-rich state, it would not be allowed to secede. Their own citizens would object (yes, they would lose all federal benefits and protections) and their loud bully-boys with guns would be no match for an actual military.

Pandora's avatar

The rich that run Texas would never allow it because their stocks would drop. So many businesses would pull out before they tank. Abbott does this to appeal to his base but he would never do it. It would sink him.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

They be F&*KED. – -it is a civil war ! . . . . . . .. . .. . . .. . .. . .. .. . .. . .. . .. .. . .. . .. . . and they can’t vote for Abbot’s hero Tangerine TURD

Tropical_Willie's avatar

. . .. .there several military. bases with people and money that would moved out the next day !

LadyMarissa's avatar

I can’t remember when Texas wasn’t leaving the country. Those who paid into SS should be able to draw it. On the other hand, Texas should have to reimburse the country & provide them with medical care. I used to work with a lady who retired & moved to Ireland. She had to return home once every 6 months in order to keep receiving her SS check. I think that she would stay for 2 maybe 3 months & then back to Ireland she went. There’s a retirement community in Mexico strictly for retired Americans. They too have to return home in order to keep receiving their benefits. Just think of the new business opportunities that would open up if former American citizens had to leave Texas twice a year & stay elsewhere in the US in order to keep collecting their monthly benefits. Abbott would lose his job!!! Then again, once 45 becomes Pres again, we will have NO more elections & Abbott will refuse to go out!!!

jca2's avatar

So Texas would single-handedly defend itself from outside attack by other countries? It’s laughable.

JLeslie's avatar

When states threaten to leave my gut reaction is let them go. They get five years to change their mind and come back.

Smashley's avatar

I doubt it. There would have to be “which side are you on?” Period in which the wealthy would fall over themselves selling assets and getting off the sinking ship. Everyone with a brain and the means would get out, leaving the ones who stay with little political power to ask for anything from daddy anymore.

ragingloli's avatar

Oh, there would be so much wailing, it would make Brexit look tame by comparison.
Losing social benefits, all the federal military assets would be transferred out of texas (and with that massively diminished defence ability, there is a good chance the mexican cartels would move in), suddenly people would be checked at the borders to the rest of the colonies, businesses would now be required to pay import and export tarriffs, meaning you are looking at a severe economic downturn and an exodus of companies, any international trade agreements are now inapplicable to texas, so they have to negotiate new ones just for themselves (and looking at how britain is failing at that, they would fail at that, too), texans trying to move out of the state would now be, ironically, illegal immigrants in the remaining colonies.
It would be a wildly entertaining barrage of FAFO.

janbb's avatar

I’m kind of ready to let them go.

KNOWITALL's avatar

It’s up to 27 states backing Texas constitutional right of self-defense. It may pop off, Texans are wild.

Virginia joined the Iowa and Utah-led letter, along with Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia, Wyoming, and the Arizona State Legislature.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Can explain that further? Those other states want to leave too?

janbb's avatar

Are there citations for this whole business or is it just Abbott mouthing off?

Smashley's avatar

@JLeslie – meaningless posturing.

You can’t secede, legally, attempting to do so militarily is beyond ridiculous, and it’s just not going to happen until the end stages of the American Experiment, if that ever comes. Because it’s probably never going to happen, scumbags like to make political hay on it. You can never actually get what you say you want, so you never have to shut up about it, which is doubly useful in distracting the country from the fact that you are simping a steaming piece of shit, deadbeat loser, failure, criminal, liar, idiot, waste of carbon as cultural leader and Presidential hopeful.

ragingloli's avatar

It would be a delicious repitition of history.
The first civil war fought over the south’s right to enslave black people.
The second civil war fought over the south’s right to murder migrants.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Abbot is going to pay the US Postal service to continue delvering?

Houston’s NASA facility would have to move !

Fort Bliss would leave ?

ICE and Customs would have to move to New Mexico, Oklahoma , Arkansas and Louisiana.

Who would fill in for FAA and TSA at airports.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Tropical_Willie on balance, I think we can do without Texas better than Texas can do without the rest of the US.

seawulf575's avatar

I’d say they should still get Medicare and Social Security. These were programs that were set up as ponsi schemes, this is true, but they were made with the guarantee that you had to pay into it but you were entitled to the services provided. You weren’t offered it as an option to donate to it, money was just taken from you. Just because you move to another country doesn’t mean you suddenly forfeit all this money.

At a bare minimum I would think the US government would have to refund all the money these folks paid into the programs over the years of their lives.

ragingloli's avatar

That is about as ludicrous as saying that Britain should contine to get EU funding and subsidies after leaving the EU.
Or demanding that mommy come over to your house to do your laundry and pay your bills after you moved (not kicked) out.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Other states are backing Texas on the border situation, so it could be serious, especially if the bill passes.
Precedent by the SC says states cannot secede but the current bill is letting Texans vote, then legislators will discuss the feasibility of secession.
Most people do think it’s posturing but based on the states hard line on abortion, tax benefits for heteros, criminalizing gender-affirming care, etc…I believe they may push it this time since the border situation is mobilizing many supporters.

As far as federal dollars, I don’t believe it will get to that point before the election which should calm things down.

elbanditoroso's avatar

And then there’s this ( from Reddit )) photo

Yee haw,

elbanditoroso's avatar

You can wait all you want, @seawulf575 – I know your shtick. You have played it so many times with so many different people on Fluther that I can smell it coming a mile away.

No matter what I post, from whatever source, you will:

1) denigrate the news source and call it biased

2) denigrate the poster and call him/her names

3) pick the article apart line by line regardless of its meaning, especially if it doesn’t agree with your view of the world.

4) come back with your quotations from right-wing sources that support your argument

I have seen you do this over and over, and I won’t play your game.

canidmajor's avatar

Why are some of you saying that they should get to keep SS and Medicare? The citizens that choose to leave would effectively be renouncing their right to benefit from federal programs, even if they had been paying in. This is no pleasant little “I’ve decided to be an Ex-pat”, the unauthorized secession from the Union is an act of treason, it’s not a mutually agreed upon separation. The traitors can’t claim the perks.

jca2's avatar

I googled it. Apparently it’s been talked about for over a hundred years. “Texit.”

They got very upset when Obama won the election. I guess they couldn’t hack the thought of a black being President.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_secession_movements

Strauss's avatar

It’s a well known urban legend that the Texas Constitution allows for secession!

although anyone who knows the truth will tell you that information is from the wrong end of the longhorn!

RocketGuy's avatar

@canidmajor – if it were a peaceful secession, Texans could claim to be ex-pats and claim the SS that they paid for.

@Tropical_Willie – has a good point about Medicare. No coverage outside of the US. I suppose they could drive across the border for service.

canidmajor's avatar

@RocketGuy Why do you think it would be a peaceful secession? And really, Texans could ”claim” all sorts of stuff, and not be entitled to any of it.

ragingloli's avatar

You would have to be a citizen to claim to be an “ex-pat”. And once they secede, they are no longer citizens.

elbanditoroso's avatar

One problem for Gov. Abbott is that not all Texans are going to want to secede. My guess is that it’s under 50% – probably far fewer when the citizens of Texas see what they will be losing. So even if he gets close to pulling this off, how long will be be governor? He’ll be a failure at anything.

Or maybe he’ll be overthrown by American patriots.

seawulf575's avatar

@elbanditoroso It’s interesting you are so sure of me. I typically read or watch citations when they are given. That is how I more fully understand what you are saying or which side of a debate you are on. And rarely do I ignore something out of hand. I DO have some preconceived ideas about many of the sources you folks claim are “quality”. I’ve seen too many times where opinion is put forth as fact with no backing put forth at all. So yes, if I see a source I am skeptical. But hey, even a blind pig finds the truffle sometimes. So I give them a glance as well.

If you don’t like that I can usually discredit these reports is more about you than me. But so far I haven’t really seen anything that stuck out to me. I merely gave my opinion on the topic.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor Unfortunately, the US Government disagrees with you. There are a few countries you couldn’t live in and get Social Security, but only a few. And apparently, you would still qualify for Medicare, though you may not be covered for some treatment you get.

canidmajor's avatar

Your reasoning only applies to appropriate Ex-pats, @seawulf575, not to traitors.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor If TX secedes from the union they are not traitors. They are ex-pats. Traitors actively try to undermine the US. It is not traitorous to leave the country to the dismal destruction the Dems are bringing onto it.

canidmajor's avatar

If they go quietly without any fuss, and if no one has tried to stop them, maybe. I don’t imagine that they will be able to do that. I th8nk it would be a good idea if you went there to school them on the possibilities, I’m sure they would appreciate your take on all this.
<eyeroll>

And, done.

ragingloli's avatar

If they secede, they are no longer citizens. They are no longer “americans”. That what it means to secede.

Lightlyseared's avatar

They won’t be expats as they won’t be living outside their country of citizenship. They’ll be texans living in Texas. And instead of having migrants coming in one direction they’ll be coming in in all directions.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 you’re against aliens getting healthcare; Abbot and his ALIENS should not enjoy US citizen’s benefits instead they should get the third world that Abbot wants ! ! ! !

Help is coming for you !

RocketGuy's avatar

They’d be US citizens living in Texas-istan. So there might be very few actual Texas-istan citizens living there.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I wonder if any Flutheranians would prefer living in Texasistan…..

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Texas is a very resource-rich state, it would not be allowed to secede.

Says who? Patriotic Americans should encourage them to leave.

If the United States wasn’t dragged down by the fundamentalist anti-education racist anti-democracy ignorant authoritarian misogynist troglodytes (AKA the Republican base) we would be a genuine First World nation with universal health care and quality education for all.

The Civil War was a mistake. If your worst degenerate knuckle-draggers demand to leave, let them. Please go, Red States. Form a union with your own kind. Off the top of my head, Putin’s Russia and the Taliban are the most fitting.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I’m for the US government honoring their side of the ponsi scheme. They take money from all working people to pay for SS and Medicare. Workers are not given an option of paying into it. The agreement is that when you hit retirement (or have other emergency needs) you can start collecting this money again. If someone in TX has paid into SS for the past 30 years and TX secedes, that money was with the person, not the state. It is no different than if someone decides to move to Costa Rica to retire. They are still entitled to the promise from the government. As I said, they could just refund all the money in one lump sum which would be fine as well. Not really in agreement with the program, but at least they are robbing the people.

What you are confusing is that I don’t agree with people entering this country illegally, never having paid into SS or Medicare or Medicaid and getting the benefits of those programs. All that does is drain the resources.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

YOU Missed the turn, I said Medicare and you just don’t listen.

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575 Unless I’m mistaken, migrants wouldn’t be eligible to receive SS unless they work 40 quarters on the books, like anybody else.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Go back up. Even ex-pats are still eligible for Medicare. I gave a citation already.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But here’s the problem: Those that enter illegally cannot be “on the books”. So somehow the Dems have to figure out how to get it to them, eh?

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/09/08/new-rule-makes-clear-noncitizens-who-receive-health-or-other-benefits-which-they-are-entitled-will-not-suffer-harmful-immigration-consequences.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/12/29/1221780712/more-states-extend-health-coverage-to-immigrants-even-as-issue-inflames-gop

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/12/30/california-offering-health-insurance-to-undocumented-immigrants-what-to-know/?sh=1741640361c8

https://www.booker.senate.gov/news/press/booker-jayapal-barragan-introduce-bicameral-legislation-to-lift-barriers-to-health-care-for-immigrants

So public assistance is readily paid for many times. But what about Social Security?

https://www.ssa.gov/people/immigrants/

The tricky part here is “if you are lawfully present in the US and plan on applying for a work visa…” By the rules the Dems are pushing and what is in this document, if you are a “refugee” you are entitled to get a SSN. So every one of these millions of people that enter the country illegally and say “I’m seeking asylum” can pretty much automatically get signed up for a SSN that would enable them to get SS benefits. They don’t have to prove they are refugees and they don’t have to have a work visa…only say they are planning on applying for one.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

“Decisions about Medicare enrollment can be complicated if you live outside the United States. Living outside the U.S. means you do not live in the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, or the Northern Mariana Islands. Although Medicare does not typically cover medical costs you receive when you live abroad, you still need to choose whether to enroll in Medicare when you become eligible or to turn down enrollment. This requires considering:”.
https://www.medicareinteractive.org/get-answers/medicare-health-coverage-options/medicare-and-living-abroad/medicare-coverage-when-living-abroad

You are NOT covered !

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Gee, if you looked at what I gave as a citation earlier you find “If you have moved outside the United States permanently, you should decide whether to keep Medicare Parts A and B. Remember, you can have Medicare while you live abroad, but it will usually not cover the care you receive.”

So you still have it, though it may not cover care where you are. That is entirely dependent on where you are. Even YOUR citation says basically the same thing. Go back and re-read what you quoted.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

That SIR is because . . .if you move back to the USA you’ll be covered by Medicare !

What foreign doctors have a Medicare number (for their practice) ? ? ?

“The PECOS system is a database of providers who have registered with CMS. A National Provider Identifier (NPI) is necessary to register in PECOS. Use that identifier to search for the provider in the database. If you don’t know the provider’s NPI number, you can search for their information in the NPI registry.”

https://www.providertrust.com/blog/what-is-pecos/

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575 In order to receive SS, you still have to work 40 quarters (yes, on the books which I understand means the asylum seekers will be eligible as they’ll have a SS#), but they still need to put in their 40 quarter periods.

YARNLADY's avatar

I don’t think the 1.5 million people who receive government benefits would be in favor.

Pandora's avatar

I will say I don’t see how they won’t ruin thier local economy. Everything changes to exporting and inporting. The American dollar will be of no value in Texas, and I would think most banks would close up in texas till they have a stable economy and their own money. Not to mention, The Cartels can sweep into texas to run their businesses to the the rest of the states from there I mean they won’t even a National Guard. How would they get paid? A new currency has to be established. PO will all close. I could see Putin offering to come help Texas defend itself from the rest of America and Mexico. And I guess Abbot will be without an actual government job that pays him. Of Course he could decide to declare himself king of his own little kingdom.

Strauss's avatar

In my humble opinion:

There is no path for secession, and the Civil War illustrated this. The only way Texas could secede would be by declaring war on the US. In doing so, The “Republic of Texas” (or whatever the breakaway state would call itself) could possibly be declared a “hostile nation state”. All native born Texans would automatically cease to be US citizens and would need a visa to visit Oklahoma, New Mexico, Louisiana or another other US State. Any non-native Texans would retain their U S citizenship unless they choose to renounce it in favor of Texan (Texian?) citizenship.
. The border, obviously, would be moved to reflect this. All military and Federal facilities would either shut down or moved. This would include such economic engines as Johnson Space Center (Houston would really have a problem!), South Padre Island National Seashore (owned and administered by the National Park Service), and more.
Texas’ status as a “hostile nation state” would lead to a mass exodus of major employers, such as : Amazon, American Airlines, AT&T, BP, Boeing, Capital One, Charles Schwab, Dell, ExxonMobil, Facebook, JP Morgan Chase, Kubota, Lockheed Martin, Merck, Occidental, Southwest, Toyota—naming only the top few.

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