General Question

MarvinPowell's avatar

I'm a short guy. Women never give me the time of day because of it. What can I do to overcome this?

Asked by MarvinPowell (615 points ) April 3rd, 2014

I’m only 180cm. Most men who have at least moderate success with women are at least 183cm (6’0”). I should mention, I live in the US and am in my mid to late 20’s.

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69 Answers

Seek's avatar

If you’re only 3 cm short of 6 feet, you’re tall.

Seriously. If you’re having bad luck with women, it’s most likely not due to being 5’11.

Mimishu1995's avatar

I agree with @Seek about the “bad luck with women” part.

Most men who have at least moderate success with women are at least 183cm (6’0”)? Who told you that?

Seriously, not all women judge men by their look. You can find a woman who loves you just the way you are.

It’s somewhat hard to get the height you want if you’re an adult since the body has fully developed and refuses to grow more. Be confident, respect yourself, and be opstimistic. That’s how you can overcome this.

pleiades's avatar

you said “Most men who have at least moderate success with women are at least 183cm (6’0”).”

Haha my man my man. I’m 5’7 and 5’8 on a good day. Trust me when I say this, my wife is smoking hot. It’s not height my man, it’s attitude, it’s what you do, it’s who you are.

Marvin, do you hit up the bars? You never know who you can meet.

gailcalled's avatar

@Seek;Check your math.

5’9” is the perfect height for millions of women. That can’t be your real issue, dude.

Paul Newman was 5“9’ and Robert Redford 5’10”. Their short stature ruined their lives. Oh, wait…

Buttonstc's avatar

Well, somebody needs to break the news to guys like Tom Cruise who don’t seem to have any problem attracting women significantly taller than them (in spite of being a tool and affiliated with a wacky cult).

Your premise is flawed. There are many short guys (including even dwarfs) who are partnered with taller women who care more about their heart, mind and personality than how tall they are or aren’t.

Your height is not the problem. You need to do some introspection or get help from a competent therapist to figure out what the problem is with your perception of yourself in relation to others.

gailcalled's avatar

@MarvinPowell: You seem to have a lot more issues other than your height, given the generalized anguish you have shown tonight in your other answers.

http://www.fluther.com/users/MarvinPowell/answers/

Can you find a therapist to talk things over with?

Coloma's avatar

You are NOT short. Shortsighted maybe. haha
I’m a petite women, 5’3.5 and I do not like super tall guys.
5’10 is a good height.

Who wants to look up to a Giraffe unless you are a Giraffe too? lol
I have the opposite issue, I don’t really care about the physical, as long as the guy isn’t some Santa Claus bearded biker dude, that weighs 300 lb.
I just want intelligence and humor.
I have never found a man that can match my wit and humor.

I give up.

stanleybmanly's avatar

You have to be kidding. The list of “lady killers” past and present in Hollywood is just crammed with men shorter than 5 feet 7 inches. I’m less than 5’10” and realized by the 10th grade that my future would not be in the NBA, but never once did I think my stature an impediment to romance. Listen to Seek, dump the excuse, and get out there. Figure out what women want, then deliver it!

Smitha's avatar

My husband is just 5’5. It never appeared to me that he is short. He’s taller than me, that is all I care about and I love him for him and that is what is important to me. Judging someone based solely on height, is very superficial. So just don’t worry, be confident in yourself. The right girl will come at the right time and will love you just the way you are.

dappled_leaves's avatar

Your height is not the problem. Seriously, who wants to be with a tall guy? I don’t keep that much stuff on the top shelf anyway.

Learn to be comfortable with yourself; this will make others more comfortable around you. It’s never going to be about looks alone, ever. Be interesting, be generous, have a sense of humour, learn about the world. These are the things that draw others in. No one cares how close you are to being 6 feet tall.

kritiper's avatar

Improve your self confidence.

pleiades's avatar

Do you live in California? If not you should, lots of shorties here.

MarvinPowell's avatar

@pleiades
I live in Pennsylvania. I’m the shortest guy I know. A good 10 to 15% of women I see daily are my height or taller. Tall women don’t seem to think of shorter men as being “real men.” If she’s 6’0” and the guy is 5’10”, he’s too much of a “little boy” for her.

I already feel bad for being short, but women constantly want perfect-looking men. At least, around here. I’d say most all of them. No shorter than 6’1”, almost always White and if not, Hispanic. Perfect good looks, fit athletic bodies, beards and tattoos if they can get them, and wealthy. Always wealthy, but they’ll instead just say “own your own fancy car, own your own house, own this, own that,” etc. Women will never actually use the word “rich” or “wealthy.” But usually, it’ll be height, good looks, and race that plays the biggest factors. And not just with wealthy Caucasian women, but women of all races and salaries ask for this in men. The only compensator seems to be money. Sure, a short guy around here can get a girl if he can afford to buy her. For every inch below 6’1”, he needs to make an extra 10k a year, basically. Starting at 70k annually. Meaning a 5’9” guy for example, could get a woman if he makes 100k a year.

So me not being tall, handsome, wealthy, in Olympic shape, etc, it cuts my chances for anyone. Women rarely get to ever know me for my personality. It rarely ever gets that far. I’m just dismissed for being considered too short and for being unattractive. I wanted to know what others like this have done to overcome this. Aside from being rich, because I likely won’t be able to ‘buy love’ tomorrow or next week.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Snap out of it. It isn’t your height, your looks nor your finances that stand between you and romance. It’s GLOOM, plain and simple, and you are obviously sharp enough to realize this. No woman is searching for depression. You are young, literate and apparently in good health. WTF? The supposed handicaps you present here are nonsense, and I suspect you know it. Depression can literally kill you. If you suspect that you’re afflicted with it, talk to someone qualified to help. Please.

Pandora's avatar

I’m willing to bet that you are equally looking for the perfect woman. Tall, with money, and looks like a model. Forgive me for assuming, but I’ve seen a lot of guys like that.

When I was young and single. I don’t know how many guys would hit on me as I walked home from school or work. Same guys, everyday, drinking their beer or smoking their pot and they thought I was stuck up because I didn’t see them as someone I should date.

But if you are unemployed or have no ambitions except to hang with your pals on the weekend and watch a game, don’t take care of your health, drink your nights away, and then carry a chip on your shoulder the size of Texas and get pissed off at pretty women who want a guy with some ambition and a self worth because she has some good self esteem, then it would not matter if you were as tall as Micheal Jordan.
People need to ask for what they deserve and if they want more than they should be willing to be more. Now I could be wrong.

Maybe you don’t care if she is a super model type. But there is the guy who figures a unattractive girl should be happy for anyone who comes along. If that unattractive girl has self esteem, she won’t bother with the guys who think she should be grateful.
I don’t think you are considered short at all. So you have to ask yourself what vibe are you giving off. Everytime I see a tall girl with a shorter guy, you can tell he makes her feel like a queen.

Mimishu1995's avatar

@MarvinPowell I already feel bad for being short, but women constantly want perfect-looking men. No shorter than 6’1”, almost always White and if not, Hispanic. Perfect good looks, fit athletic bodies, beards and tattoos if they can get them, and wealthy. Always wealthy, but they’ll instead just say “own your own fancy car, own your own house, own this, own that,” etc. Women will never actually use the word “rich” or “wealthy.” But usually, it’ll be height, handsomeness, and race that plays the biggest factors. And not just with wealthy Caucasian women, but women of all races and salaries ask for this in men. The only compensator seems to be money. Sure, a short guy around here can get a girl if he can afford to buy her. For every inch below 6’1”, he needs to make an extra 10k a year, basically.

It seems either the area you are living is being bullshit or you are being too stereotyped. If the girls really don’t want you because you don’t meet their “perfect body”, then why waste your time trying to get them?

Women rarely get to ever know me, for my personality. It rarely ever gets that far. I’m just dismissed for being considered too short and for being unattractive.

Have you ever tried socializing with them? Or are you just imagining that they’re giving you a cold shoulder?

Seems like there are some flaws in your statement needed to be cleared up.

I wanted to know what others like this have done to overcome this. Aside from being rich, because I likely won’t be able to ‘buy love’ tomorrow or next week.

Well I’m not sure if I answered your question, but you aren’t the only one who is depressed because of your look. Take a look at these all and see for yourself how childish it is for having constant fear of being ugly.

ucme's avatar

Wear a watch, then you won’t need to ask for the time.

Mimishu1995's avatar

@MarvinPowell Hey, when did you change 10k to 100k? You seem to be exaggerating the matter from time to time.

Smitha's avatar

First of all you need to build up confidence, that’s the most important thing girls are attracted to. if you go around saying, “oh I’m short, am not attractive, nobody likes me, etc “you’re convincing yourself that you really are like that. Act attractive and you’ll be attractive. Learn to love yourself, be kind to people, be positive and people will begin to notice you and want to be around you.

Seek's avatar

Eh, whatever.

My husband is 5’9, 235, and 15 years my senior. And he has a happy and fulfilling sex life I can assure you.

Main reason? When I met him, he was more interested in his own activities, his own friends, and in building his relationship with me that he was on whether he could shave his goatee into calligraphy or cut diamonds with his nipples.

Seek's avatar

Maybe the chicks you’re aiming for are shallow, gold digging bimbos who aren’t worth your time or heartache.

syz's avatar

The tallest guy I ever dated was 5’9.

You’re fishing in the wrong pool if the only women you meet won’t date you because you’re not quite 6 feet tall. But I suspect your height is not the issue.

The average American male is 5’9½, and I can absolutely authoritatively state the average American male is not “in Olympic shape”, nor is he wealthy. And yet millions of them find a loved one, a partner, or a wife.

Stop projecting your own insecurities on others and look to yourself for answers.

hearkat's avatar

My ex-husband was 5’5” and I’m 5’6”; I’ve also dated other men that were shorter than I am, and I’ve dated men who lived in Pennsylvania that were under 6’0” tall.

I live in New Jersey and have lived in Pennsylvania at times during my life and have relatives and friends who live there and visit there quite often. I’m not sure what part of the state you’re in that all the women are 6’0” tall, because I’ve only ever seen a fairly wide range of heights when I’m in PA, fairly representative of the public in the other areas of the US that I’ve visited.

As others have noted, it seems that you are looking for an external source of blame for the challenges you face, and also to an external source for happiness; but the truth is that our misery or happiness are truly found within. I am speaking from experience, as a person who once was full of self-loathing and negativity that resulted from an abusive childhood. I was not truly happy until I learned to accept my past and myself and actively choose to focus on the positive aspects of my life. Once I became happy with myself, only then was I able to accept unconditional love from someone else, and to reciprocate.

I agree with those that have suggested that you seek the guidance of a qualified professional to help you through this transition.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@MarvinPowell It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.

ibstubro's avatar

Rhea Perlman divorced Danny DeVito last year because he’s such a tomcat.

You’re just down on yourself. Try giving yourself a change of scenery this weekend. Visit an old friend, go to the zoo…try to get away from your rut, and maybe you’ll feel better.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I’m 5’5” and married a guy that’s 5’8”, short by his standards, fine by mine. Don’t let your height or anything else psyche you out, just try to be confidant and happy, that is very attractive imo.

I used to know a short guy that was smart, good-looking, had money, and he was very sexy and pretty good with the ladies, so don’t sweat it.

ibstubro's avatar

I thought I edited my answer. Should read “Rhea Perlman threatened to divorce Dann last year…”

Jonesn4burgers's avatar

You have TONS of great responses to your question here. One might think there is NOTHING left for me to add. WRONG.
Being all the way down this stack of terrific answers gives me a unique perspective. You responded ONCE to some of the people trying to be helpful to you. You didn’t thank one soul. You were argumentative. You were resistant to imput. YOU THANKED NO-ONE FOR THEIR INSIGHT, THEIR TIME, OR THEIR SHARED EXPERIENCES!
For attracting genuine, caring women, you don’t need to be tall, but you do want to be a genuine, caring man. If genuine for you is self absorbed, defeatest, whining, argumentative; then of course no self – respecting, decent woman will give you the time of day, and yes, you just as well buy a watch, or change your personal reality.
Nobody gets paid for being here, being helpful. People who are here care about helping people with problems. Your problem is, you don’t want help. You want to bash women for not throwing themselves at you. I sit in a wheelchair, and my disability has put several pounds on what used to be a SMASHING figure. I bet if you saw me, you would look right through me, and the little girl who helps her Mommy get through doors, and ober bumps. I used to be a hot looking chick, and back then lots of men looked through my clothes with their xray vision, not through me. Still, there are some people who see ME. There’s the pizza delivery guy who is just a LEETLE flirty, my neighbor who is helpful, but not condescending, a bus driver who is always sweet and has great conversations with me.
Quit whining about what you were born with, and work on what really holds you back.
SIZE DOESN’T MATTER, mostly.

gailcalled's avatar

I lived in Philadelph for 14 years, and I have never heard such a weird theory;

Sure, a short guy around here can get a girl if he can afford to buy her. For every inch below 6’1”, he needs to make an extra 10k a year, basically. Starting at 70k annually. Meaning a 5’9” guy for example, could get a woman if he makes 100k a year.

My then husband was 6’4” and, according to your rationale, I should have been thrilled to have him take a 30K income cut because he was so tall.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Jonesn4burgers Brava, a good reminder to count our many blessings and focus on that.

dappled_leaves's avatar

@MarvinPowell “Sure, a short guy around here can get a girl if he can afford to buy her.”

Buy her? Seriously, buy her? I think we may have identified your problem.

ibstubro's avatar

No, @gailcalled, you should have been giving him a $30,000 yearly allowance for his company.

That’s a thought, maybe he should consider renting, @dappled_leaves?

livelaughlove21's avatar

Date shorter women.

Since when is 5’10” short? My husband is 5’9” – taller than I am, so who cares if he’s not 6’?

gailcalled's avatar

@ibstubro: Or paying him that for having chosen me in spite of my not being in Olympic shape, choosing to wear my glasses rather than contacts and not having “perfect” good looks, whatever that means. He should have paid me for never being boring or dull. I should have paid him because I always wore comfortable shoes and very little make-up.

ibstubro's avatar

Yikes, @gailcalled. You’ll need an accountant on retainer. I’m thinking cheaper to rent.

Afos22's avatar

First, it has nothing to do with your height. You are not short. And, if you only notice taller women, you are not giving sorter women the time of day either.

Women usually are attracted to men that are their height or taller. Focus flirting on women of your height or shorter. If a taller woman does not talk to you, she’s shallow anyway, why bother?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Afos22 My guy friends called those spinners back in the day…lol

Stinley's avatar

I don’t get it. You say you are short but you are not, you are above average height. You say that 10–15% of women are taller than you. That leaves you with the other 85–90% of the women to work your magic on.

I can let you into a little secret – it would be a huge turn off if I was chatting to you and all you could go on about was negative things like how short you were or how little money you made. Make me laugh, make me feel like I’m the only person in the room, ask me about me? That’d do it.

MarvinPowell's avatar

@Pandora
“I’m willing to bet that you are equally looking for the perfect woman. Tall, with money, and looks like a model.”

Nope. Not even close.

“if you are unemployed or have no ambitions except to hang with your pals on the weekend and watch a game, don’t take care of your health, drink your nights away,”

So far, I don’t have any of these traits. I work in private security, want to be a professional television writer and am in school majoring in English, and I HATE weed and I don’t drink. Still never given the time of day by women because I am not an Adonis. Its surprising so many on here would doubt this. Its extremely common around here.

Women want male perfection and unwilling to settle for some short loser who makes less than X amount a year. Its not a misconception of “having self value or preferences in men.” Its just shallowness, in my opinion. Especially since these women have literally nothing, aside from being female, to offer, not that they ever feel the need to “offer” a man anything, anyway. They feel entitled he should be lucky she even chose him. The only men who seem to be someone that AREN’T like this are solely so because he knocked her up and they now have a kid and the woman cares more about the kid than him.

MarvinPowell's avatar

@Mimishu1995
“If the girls really don’t want you because you don’t meet their “perfect body”, then why waste your time trying to get them?”

Because its better than being alone, for life. There’s very little alternatives or options. Either play by what society wants or continue to be alone. I don’t enjoy being single, right now. I sort of want to get married in the next five years. Not saying its a definite goal, but it’d be nice. If all the single ones are pretty much the same, I have to play by their rules.

“Have you ever tried socializing with them? Or are you just imagining that they’re giving you a cold shoulder?”

Most of the time, they tell me, to my face, I am too short/too ugly/don’t have enough possessions/etc. “I have preferences. I know what I want. I won’t settle for anything less. I’m a queen. I deserve to be spoiled like one.” And like I said, these are far from successful, attractive women. Many of them, if not the majority, are downright ugly or obese or have several kids without fathers.

@Seek
“Maybe the chicks you’re aiming for are shallow, gold digging bimbos who aren’t worth your time or heartache.”

It seems like the majority of single women 18 to 35 around here. Like 80 to 90% of them. The “good” ones are all married by 19. I know for a fact I don’t go after the same “type.” These women range in race, age, and occupation. Many of them aren’t even what I’d physically find attractive. They just seem like a good match by personality, at least. But thanks for your answer. I appreciate it.

@syz
“Stop projecting your own insecurities on others and look to yourself for answers.”

Well that’s not troll-ish or anything. I can imagine you must be quite the catch.

@hearkat
“I live in New Jersey and have lived in Pennsylvania at times during my life. I’m not sure what part of the state you’re in that women are 6’0” tall, because I’ve only ever seen a fairly wide range of heights when I’m in PA, fairly representative of the public in the other areas of the US that I’ve visited.”

I’m going to have to disagree with you. I live in the southeastern part of PA (though it’d be less shameful for me to just admit I was from Camden, NJ). So I won’t say the shit city it is, but you can guess by the location. I’ve been in Jersey a lot and Jersey people in general are a bit shorter. Especially in Trenton. Though in Atlantic City, Toms River, or Camden, they tend to be taller. Guys are around 6’2” on average and girls 5’8”-5’9”. This is just my observational estimates though, not hard scientific data.

@KNOWITALL
“I married a guy that’s 5’8”, short by his standards, fine by mine. Don’t let your height or anything else psyche you out, just try to be confident and happy.”

I understand. But being single doesn’t make me happy. I also get I shouldn’t rely on others or their approval in order to be happy. But it is what it is. Being single for life, partly because of genetic inadequacy I can’t possibly change, doesn’t make me happy. Unless I won the lottery or something, it just sucks. Thanks for your response.

@livelaughlove21
“My husband is 5’9” – taller than I am, so who cares if he’s not 6’?”

So if he was shorter, you wouldn’t talk to him? For some, the height standard may be different. For some women, 5’9” may be the minimum for guys. For others, anything taller the woman. Here, it is 6’1”. “Date shorter women” WOULD be an option, if they didn’t ask for the same thing. The woman’s height seems to be a non-issue. Whether 5’2” or 5’10”, 6’1” is still the common standard.

Just to clear up, I am not necessarily blaming them for having standards. I agree with them; 6’1” IS an adequate, manly height. The issue is, I am NOT 6’1” and above, and its a handicap. What could I do about THAT instead? As I heard form others (outside this thread), money will compensate for anything you physically lack. Does this mean I have to wait until I’m a millionaire before anyone will give me the time of day or not scoff or me approaching them in a polite manner and asking to get to know her better? I’ve also heard being a complete jerk means success with women too, because women love those types of men (cocky/confident/arrogant/conceited types). I just can’t seem to do that, though. Its hard, by nature, for me to act like a D-bag just to get a woman.

@Stinley
“You say that 10–15% of women are taller than you. That leaves you with the other 85–90% of the women to work your magic on.”

The issue has nothing to do with THEIR height. Even women 5’2” want someone over six feet tall. I apologize if I sound bitter or upset, but it IS upsetting to be denied by everyone for things out of my control. Am I supposed to be happy that I’m doomed to be single for the rest of my life? I’m only human and constant and unfair rejection before the woman even GETS to know you is enough to make anyone feel unhappy. It isn’t my height alone, but that’s the biggie. Its also my looks, lack of being wealthy, my skin tone, my body type, etc.

Outside of this one topic, I am not just like this and just upset. I do have other qualities to me. But its just really annoying to deal with this and I can assure you other guys who have been in the same place have felt like this at one point or another. Other short men or unattractive men who are always denied for their looks feel the same way. In fact, I recently started keeping mathematical data on this. I am rejected flat-out by women due to my short stature, looks, etc. by 80% of them. 19% of them reject me politely or are the type to FriendZone. But its all the same results: they don’t want to be near me, and it has nothing to do with personality 80% of the time.

I don’t feel “entitled” that women should have to talk to me, but when its virtually every one of them like this? It just sucks. In bare feet, I am 5’10” and a half, the quote “average height” for an American male if we go by statistics, but who wants average? It is a negative word and even I despise the thought of mediocrity. Anything under 6’1” is “not a man” according to society, and thus, ‘is a little boy.’ (Unless he’s rich.) So as I said, though it works unfairly to me, I an understand WHY women want those super-masculine Alpha Male “protectors” and “providers.” The issue is my own severely lacking genetics and inferior height (and looks, etc). The issue isn’t on them, but on ME. I wasn’t screwed by genetics and currently don’t have the income or personal success to compensate for it with women. I am looking for other ways – if possible – to do so, if there are any.

Thanks to everyone for all your answers here, but they don’t really help me much. They are mostly arguing against the situation, rather than trying to understand it. I don’t know why there is such a need to argue against the situation, because it is what it is. I’m already in the process of accepting I’m not want any women physically want or that I’ll always be the same height I am, and so on. Its not easy to accept it or just “move past it.” Its essentially like saying to “give up on it and work on something else that WILL make you happy.” But that’s not what I want. At the same time, what else is there? This is why it is a problem. The heart wants what the heart wants and since I’m genetically inferior and not an Alpha, I don’t know what else I’m supposed to do to move past it. I appreciate the answer, but that is too simple of a solution, for this.

Maybe the right answer IS to give up on women and focus on something else that will bring happiness, though. But rest assured, that is NOT easy to do! I already have been trying this. But thanks for the different perspectives from everyone (the ones who weren’t trolling at least, like @Jonesn4burgers).

MarvinPowell's avatar

Correction:
”*IF I wasn’t screwed by genetics or currently had the income or personal success to compensate for it with women…”

livelaughlove21's avatar

@MarvinPowell Here, it is 6’1”.

Where is “here”? Regardless, I seriously doubt that is true. It sounds like some excuse you made up in your head as to why you’re single.

MarvinPowell's avatar

@livelaughlove21
“Regardless, I seriously doubt that is true. It sounds like some excuse you made up in your head as to why you’re single.”

I really don’t like it when people think their own worldview must be the norm and that they think they know me better than I know me, despite having no knowledge of the situation. Basically, jumping to conclusions because they’re stuck in their own experiences. That’s why I don’t like the argumentative answers on here. Just because YOU personally haven’t encountered it doesn’t mean “everything I haven’t dealt with simply MUST be wrong!”

You don’t have to agree with me, but I have all the bullshit, frustration, grief, and everything else that says otherwise. It IS true. I don’t care if your different perspective blinds you to thinking that could the case.

So to reiterate: Its not a fucking excuse.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@MarvinPowell Well I hate when people take their own experiences and think that they are somehow different from the rest of the population. No one here agreed that women require men to be 6’1” before dating them, yet you say all women in your area (wherever that may be) have this stipulation. The idea is just plain ridiculous. The women in your area are no different than women anywhere else. Some women refuse to date anything but tall men; many don’t have strict guidelines about such things. You can be frustrated with me all you want, but this delusion of yours is a fucking excuse. Sorry, pal, perhaps there’s some other reason women won’t give you a shot.

Thanks to everyone for all your answers here, but they don’t really help me much.

What answer would help? Would you like us to send you a link to a website that sells magical beans that make you taller? Maybe if you hang upside down for several hours a day, your body will stretch to the height required by the very special women that live near you.

What frustrates me is when people bitch about the answers they get not being helpful when there is no “right” answer. What the hell were you expecting us to say?

Mimishu1995's avatar

@MarvinPowell I have been lurking around, and I didn’t want to answer your question anymore since you have repeatedly dismissed every single advice we’ve got to say!

I only come to add a bit of my opinion, along with the one of @livelaughlove21:

What is the right advice you want?

OK, so let’s assume that everything you say is true. Then sorry pal, there’s nothing I can do for you. It’s just like you want to go to space but you’re too unfit.

You shouldn’t have asked this question in the first place, because you have already got the answer: give up women altogether.

When you ask a question, please don’t be so argumentative toward the answer you get. It’s like you’re dismissing the answerers, who try their best to help you.

I regret to say that I, as well as many more, can’t help you anymore…

MarvinPowell's avatar

@livelaughlove21

You clearly think you know it all, so I’m not even going to bother with you, anymore. But its pretty damn annoying when people who have no clue of what’s going on (through the damn internet, no less) think they have all the answers. Its a spit in the face to everything I’ve been through, to just be told something as stupid and naive as that.

I appreciate the answers that give me some insight into this, not the ones that want to argue about what standards they think must be the case. You don’t have to believe anything I say, but its stupid to think you’re right and not have anything to base it off of.

I would want something that helps address the issue, not this “Oh, well I’m 5’10” and my husband is 5’9”, so you clearly must be delusional!” arguing. Or these “one size fits all” answers that obviously don’t work for everyone, as if we’re all the same and that one solution that worked in one hypothetical situation is always the right answer. I didn’t ask the question for people to argue with it and its pretty disrespectful to be called a liar or crazy or anything along those lines when I have the real-life frustration of going through it all.

Like I said though, you’re now no more helpful than a typical troll and I’d rather have no answer on the question at all than trolling and bullshit and accusations. Some of your answers, I appreciated at least the response. But name-calling is where I draw the line.

@Mimishu1995
“What is the right advice you want?”

I wasn’t looking for “right” advice. I just don’t like being called a liar or dismissed because someone like livelaughlove21 thinks they’re automatically right without even knowing me or my situation.

I wanted to know ways I could overcome being rejected or overlooked by women because I’m too short for them or otherwise less than perfect. I heard “date shorter women” but many of the ones I’ve talked to were even 5’3” or under. But at least it was SOMEthing.

The only thing that annoys me here is when people like livelaughlove21 dismiss everything I have to say, thinking they have some magic psychic insight into my life or every single person I’ve ever talked to or met and try to play armchair psychologist over the internet or miss Know It All. It ignores the question altogether. Its like asking “I get paid well, but I’m unhappy in my job as a lawyer. What should I do?” and someone answering “How can you be unhappy being a lawyer? You’re fucking insane! You must have issues if you’re an unhappy lawyer! You need to shut up about this, but I once knew a lawyer a long time ago and he was very happy, so you can’t be an unhappy lawyer! You’re an idiot!” I appreciate the answers that at least TRY to help, like “date shorter women,” “work on liking your career more than dating” and so on, not the ones who just argue.

Only about three women I’ve ever talked to have not have some issue with my height, looks, etc. The rest who I weren’t rejected by simply said “I don’t care how attractive or ugly or tall or short a guy is,” meaning they felt I was what the others said, but that they just didn’t mind dating short or unattractive or un-wealthy men and have done so in the past.

I don’t mind if you couldn’t help. I appreciate the attempt at it, anyway. What I DON’T appreciate is being mocked, made fun of, or called a liar. Or some snotty internet holier-than-thou know-it-all who tries to judge me when they don’t even know me, like Jonesn4burgers. It pisses me the fuck off to have to argue my point, because the crap I’ve gone through is VERY much real! Normally I wouldn’t get upset, but its an issue for me.

Ideally, I wish society wasn’t so shallow, but it is. I also know other short/unattractive/un-wealthy/otherwise physically undesirable men have ended up with women, so I’d like to know more about what they did to overcome their issues and get past the hurdle of women not even wanting to talk to them, into getting their attention, and winning them over. The very few I HAVE talked to have told me the same things: I was very intelligent, funny, insightful, and could hold great conversations. However, the issue is in not even getting the attention of women in order for them to get that far.

So far, the best non-answer I’ve heard on here is “Why bother with those women, anyway?” I wish I wouldn’t have to, but it’s all there is. At least, for now. I would definitely LOVE if things were different, but they are not. Also, I actually got some helpful insight from another sight’s comment section believe it or not, and the best suggestion from them was that “American women tend to be shallow and picky like that, and it would be best to go overseas to look for women, and in the meanwhile, work on things that are controllable, like classes, your GPA and job. Then, travel abroad to find less shallow women like the ones in the US.” THAT actually helps me and I’ll very much take it into consideration.

And it was from the comments section of this site, and I didn’t even directly ask anyone anything:
http://www.zergnet.com/news/118032/7-guys-who-are-shorter-than-you-think

gailcalled's avatar

@MarvinPowell:@Mimishu’s first language is not English and she doesn’t understand that her answer does indeed come off as patronizing, dismissive and just plain rude. (“I’m sorry pal…”)

That said, you appear to be stuck in an arbitrary and dogmatic view of the world, or at least the world in your neck of the woods. Why not relocate to a more forgiving, open-minded city?

How about finding a therapist to help you change your attitude, since you cannot make yourself taller or extremely rich?

Seek's avatar

Bro, you’re literally painting over half the human race with the same brush.

I think you need to expand your worldview. It appears to me, from the interaction we’ve had here, that you tend to categorize and pigeonhole things. You probably have a very organized closet. Only problem is, we humans, with our lovely higher reasoning abilities, aren’t able to be categorized that way.

I am going to assume that you are searching for a monogamous relationship, solely because you haven’t mentioned anything about polyamory. If that’s the case, you don’t need to find “women” who appreciate you. You need to find a woman that appreciates you.

I think this is a case of not seeing the trees for the forest.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@MarvinPowell You’re telling me that every single woman in your area wants one thing in a man, and yet I’m the one that thinks I know everything? Okay.

You’ve got issues, dude, and your height isn’t one of them.

@gailcalled I said that, and I don’t give a single crap if I came off as patronizing, dismissive, or rude, so I don’t need any disclaimers, thank you.

hearkat's avatar

I have lived in central and southern New Jersey all my life – nearly 50 years now. I work in the Philly suburbs and go into Philly pretty often – I even dated a guy in Philly so I practically lived there for a while. There is a wide range of heights for both genders, the women are average in height, and mostly range from 4’10” to 6’+—but it is rare that I encounter women over 5’10”.

The premise of your question is completely false.

Learn to love yourself, and then your heart and mind will be open to accepting love from someone else. Stop looking for external excuses – happiness can only be found within.

MarvinPowell's avatar

@gailcalled

It was @livelaughlove21 being a troll (ironic, considering her username), not @Mimishu1995. I could call her other names, but I won’t. As I said, it just really irks me when people would rather argue than actually answer the question. I’d rather they not bother at all than do that.

@Seek
“Bro, you’re literally painting over half the human race with the same brush.”

I don’t even know what that means. “Literally?”

“It appears to me, from the interaction we’ve had here, that you tend to categorize things.”

Maybe. I wouldn’t argue against that. But when the same patterns come up over and over and over and over again, I can I not? I have a very logical brain like that. I am not “generalizing” things however. But maybe I do categorize. As I said, I looked on another website and found SO MUCH info from other men that said the same thing as I, and this was commented several months ago. So at least I know for a fact its clearly not me. One of them said online, most women do this and will reduce men to the shallowest of numbers as possible. Its true. On OKCupid, I tend to get dismissed more for being too short/unattractive/not in perfect shape/not rich/the “wrong” race/lacking tattoos, piercings, or beards, etc. It doesn’t happen AS much offline, but its still common enough.

“If that’s the case, you don’t need to find women who appreciate you. You need to find a woman that appreciates you.”

I know. It remains hard to be that optimistic when you’re rejected 80% of the time for height or physical attractiveness alone and 19.5% of the ones who don’t just end up being a mis-match. Thanks, though.

gailcalled's avatar

I am referring, as I said, to @Mimishu1995 use of English only (and not her intent) that leaves that impression. Nothing to do with @livelaughlove21.

Afos22's avatar

Maybe you should wear a suit.

MarvinPowell's avatar

@livelaughlove21
“You’re telling me that every single woman in your area wants one thing in a man, and yet I’m the one that thinks I know everything? Okay.”

I never said it was literally every single woman, now did I? When did I ever even type that? I even mentioned it was a good four out of five of them. And that the one out of five that DID give me a shot just ended up not working out romantically. But like I said, you’re not to be taken seriously anymore and your username is painfully ironic for someone like yourself.

@gailcalled
“You appear to be stuck in an arbitrary and dogmatic view of the world, or at least the world in your neck of the woods. Why not relocate to a more forgiving, open-minded city?”

Someone else suggested on another site (one that wasn’t even Q&A) that it’d be better to travel abroad because American women (statistically) tend to be the most picky and demanding, compared to all other countries in the world. Makes sense. Maybe in Asia, a man needing to be tall, rich, flawlessly good looking, and cater to a woman’s every whim and desire is less common.

But thanks for the answer.

@Afos22
“Maybe you should wear a suit.”

I don’t follow. What does that mean?

Afos22's avatar

“Wearing a sport jacket or suit jacket builds up the shoulders–taller and more pronounced shoulders emphasize height.” http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/06/07/dressing-taller-short-men/

Also, men in suits are more handsome. And they look like they make money well, which also makes men appear more attractive.

gailcalled's avatar

“Maybe in Asia, a man needing to be tall, rich, flawlessly good looking, and cater to a woman’s every whim and desire is less common.”

I have seen a lot of men over the course of my lifetime and can think of no one who fits that desciption.

Seek's avatar

But you’re not trying to date 80% of women. You’re trying to date one.
Fuck the masses. Let them carry on their lives.

Take some time, think about what you want in a partner, then start on a directed search for that person.

To use a fishing analogy, you wouldn’t use a tuna net if you were trying to catch a bass in a lake.

Short of painful, disfiguring surgery, you can’t change your height. You’re stuck with it, so make peace with it.

hearkat's avatar

I think we’ve found a key component here… You’re referencing online dating sites. I tried that for a couple years, and I got very few “winks” or messages because I am significantly overweight. I knew that going in, and expected it. Most of them ask you to list what characteristics are important to you, and I did meet guys who lied about their height and age because of it. I met a few nice guys on there and dated some for a while. When I went back after a year-long relationship that didn’t work out, it was the same people on there, so I immediately deleted my accounts. The whole thing is a setup for failure that preys on shallow and/or desperate people.

It occurred to me that so many single people expend so much effort on trying to find a partner, yet so many coupled people envy those who are single. I decided to stop seeking a partner and to start living my life here and now, rather than waiting for “someday”. I sought out groups that were based on my interests and found several in my area on Meetup.com – Philly’s got a lot of diverse groups on there if you like to play sports, go hiking, go to concerts, watch movies, learn meditation, etc. Getting away from the screen and getting out doing things you enjoy greatly increases your chances of people with whom you share common interests. I made several good friends through those groups and met a couple guys that I dated, too.

I met my fiancé online – but not on a dating site, it was a social site that was like a cross between Fluther and Facebook. Neither of us were looking for a relationship, but we had a lot in common and we became good friends. We hung out together and went to some art museums and concerts and realized that we had a terrific chemistry, and we discussed making a romance of it. That was more than 4 years ago and we got a place together about a year after we met. We’ve one had one tiff in that time, and it was when we were stressed out with the move. We are both introverts and would have simply passed each other by had our paths crossed in person. Having a common ground that brought us together was the key. Pursue your interests and enjoy your life, love yourself and you will invite love in.

MarvinPowell's avatar

Here is one response by Michael Church from another site. It gives you a good idea of things, so I am going to credit him for saying it.

“You can’t change [your height], it shouldn’t matter, and yet it affects everything. Not only does it affect your dating prospects, but being physically imposing has its advantages at work. People are less likely to take advantage of you if you’re tall. Even though physical fights are extremely rare in modern society, decisions about who to promote and demote in social groups and workplaces are still highly influenced (if subconsciously) by how much cause there is to fear that person. We’re talking about millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of social conditioning, and none of us are going to change it.

Being short has almost no correlation to anything that should matter: intelligence, courage, decency. The fact is, though, that there’s a huge advantage in being physically intimidating. People see you as a leader and those who have their doubts (and they always exist) are going to have a visceral fear of challenging you.”

And this is even double for women in looking for men and dating. As I stated, I researched this a bit. The perfect male height is 6’2”, no matter the woman. Anything over 6’4” is “too tall” (though I personally believe women don’t have a “too tall.”) And anything under 6’0” is too short. 6’2” is the perfect male height for most women, but 6’0” to 6’1” is acceptable enough. Anything under this and the man had better have some HUGE compensator for it. Most commonly, that would be wealth.

MarvinPowell's avatar

@hearkat

Thank you for the response.

gailcalled's avatar

@MarvinPowell : And why is Michael Church (whoever he is) the ultimate and absolute arbitrator?

Another perceptive person (me) notes that Bill Gates is 5’ 10”, Patrick Stewart is 5’ 10”, Tom Cruise is 5’ 7”, (I may not like his politics but he is very rich and flawlessly good looking), and Sammy Davis Jr. was both short—5’ 5”—and not so good-looking. Don Cheadle is 5 ‘8”.Fifteen of the shortest hunks in Hollywood.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
ibstubro's avatar

@gailcalled I consider that beak a flaw!

gailcalled's avatar

^^ You are in a minority, I understand.

Seek's avatar

Tom Cruise? Ick.
Christian Slater was cute once… but he aged like milk.
...Now Mark Wahlberg. Me-ow.
And I just love Seth Green.

It comes to my attention that Kevin Bacon is 5’10, and Viggo Mortensen is 5’11. And really, they are the ruler by which all men should be measured.

Joaquin Phoenix is 5’8, and if he hadn’t fallen off the crazy tree, he’d still be on my list of most goodlooking men in Hollywood.

ibstubro's avatar

@gailcalled, I think I’m now in the majority. I repeated this question today, but I was funnier saying, “Have you seen that Rooster’s beak!”

What’s up with Seth Green? @Seek. He keeps resurfacing.

Mimishu1995's avatar

I just want to quit! I’m sick of arguing here already ~

Seek's avatar

I don’t really know. I had a mad crush on him in high school, when he played on Buffy. I guess he’s the voice of the boy on Family Guy, and does some other voiceover work, according to IMDB.

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